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I think I can reasonably conclude

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FIFY

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What don't you agree with?

What do you have to justify that anything past noticing constitutes lust?

You are the only one presuming to speak for Christ. Everyone else is sharing their own personal interpretations and perspectives. You are the only one trying to come across as if you are speaking with authority.

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Or maybe this issue is hitting home and you don't like it?

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I knew it was just a matter of time before this little gem came out. I freely acknowledge that it is wise to refrain from thinking of other women when you are in a committed relationship because that can lead you onto a pretty rough path. I take issue with brow beating others and threatening them with hell because they had the audacity to ponder the possibilities for a minute, if it were.

I also think your attempt to oversimplify the issue with a few pithy quotes is misguided and not particularly helpful to anyone who is struggling with this.

Also, I'm not currently in a committed relationship, so the topic doesn't really apply to me at the moment. I certainly don't make a habit out of lusting after the wives of others.

You being single brings up a whole different set of questions. Can a single person lust after another single person and it not be a sin? You know....since the definition of adultry involves at least one party being married.

Absolutely. Lust is not a married or in a relationship issue.

You are seeing what you want to see. If you go through my posts you will find me asking questions, you will see me saying "I see it this way" etc. I speak with confidence b/c I have the support of Torah, of centuries and centuries of Rabbi's, etc. I base my points on Scripture, not on feelings. You are reading written words and assuming an inflection of arrogance which my words do not actually express.

Brow beating? Please provide a quote of me threatening one person in general or threatening them to hell.

As mentioned above, the lust has nothing to do with being single. It also doesn't matter if a woman is married or not. Lust is lust.

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What do you have to justify that anything past noticing constitutes lust?

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Since we are just asking questions...what's really happening once you get past noticing? Why continue past noticing? Do you do anything past noticing attractive male weathermen? Do you rate other men along side your male friends (obviously, for the sake of discussion, I am assuming you are male)

What godly value is there in determining which women are "hittable"?

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Absolutely. Lust is not a married or in a relationship issue.

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I think that's absurd, and is absolutely not the original definition of adultery.

Humanity would cease to exist if men didn't lust when they were single. Every single married man in history lusted after their wife before they married them, and a bunch of other women, too. The vast majority of human accomplishment can be boiled down to men lusting after women and trying to impress them. It is one of the greatest gifts we were ever given by God.

Holding people to a literally impossible standard just invites frustration and apostasy.

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Absolutely. Lust is not a married or in a relationship issue.

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I'd need you to show your work regarding God telling single men/women not to lust.

Go reread your posts on the first page, mate. Woody offered a pretty acceptable standard, and you jumped on him full guns blazing. Not one "I think" was mentioned. It all came across pretty contemptuous and judgmental.

The conversation moved to lust...not adultery. Every single man lusted after their wife? Seriously. This is false. There are quite a few marriages that are arranged. In some cases, they do not meet until the wedding date. There are others in communities that dress modestly and their focus is not sexual. Trying to impress someone is not lusting after them. Lust is not a gift from God. Obviously, you think it is ok to lust.

Holding people to a standard is not the problem. The problem is people today have a sexual obsession. This is aided by tv, ads, the way people dress, etc.

I jumped all over him? I was simply have a conversation where I disagreed with his opinion and his support for his opinion. It will be ok....it is just a message board.

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Obviously, you think it is ok to lust.

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If you're not in a committed relationship? Absolutely. In moderation, of course, but absolutely.

And you are fooling yourself if you think there is a single straight man in the history of the world who did not lust. Sure, not necessarily after their would be wife in the case of an arranged marriage, but they did. It's biology. Men literally cannot help themselves.

Anybody can go read what your wrote. If you are fine how you came across and feel like you were being a good representative Christ, then so be it.

Here is an article regarding a book that I would recommend for you. Read it, it might help. #2 is a definite read for those thinking all men lust and can't help it. This is a Christian author as well for those curious.

2) Refusing to believe that obedience is possible



Overcoming Lust

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And you are fooling yourself if you think there is a single straight man in the history of the world who did not lust. Sure, not necessarily after their would be wife in the case of an arranged marriage, but they did. It's biology. Men literally cannot help themselves.

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I think Agie is more referring to the act of staying in lust. For sure, I am with you: One cannot control how one feels...only what you do with that. I also think that many think of lusting has more than just an intense sexual attraction, but also the active choice to remain in those feelings and attitudes. These are 2 different things. I think we can agree that God, Christ, and the Scriptures speak out against the latter.

third coast.. said:

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which is why i made this thread. to see if people believe in thought sin and what is their justification for it. i think the most prevalent thought sin would be that of lust, and if that is a sin, how does it relate to your relationship. And everyone has different boundaries. I was taught that a thought=sin. As a child I was scared of my thoughts, and i feel like that is extremely damaging. as an adult, i realize how absurd that is, but also realize what mark that has left on my life.

as i live a life where i am away from home months at a time, what one may consider cheating may be different than what i may consider cheating, and that is perfectly ok, as it really boils down to what works for you in your relationship. I am not out chasing women or even trying to talk to them or what not, but i realize that the businessman special is a very real thing, and the temptation is real.

i like what one poster said earlier about thgoughts leading to actual actions, and that would be the significance of christs teachings. id agree with that.
but i would also agree that if the thought is a sin, and that is punishable by death, then ****, might as well hit it in real life instead of your mind.

sorry if incoherent, washed down some insanely spicy korean food with some rice wine and im feeling swell.

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I still think that this is an incomplete way to look at the world, and at the teachings of Christ.

The point is not to sift through the potential thoughts that you might have, and identify a line that is illegal lust, and therefore bad, and mere art appreciation, and therefore good.

The principle at issue is that monogamous relationships, where the parents of children dedicate to eachother not to seek any sexual gratification outside of the marriage relationship, is better for your kids, is better for you, is better for your spouse, and is an act of love for your kids, love for mankind (because if we all had better kids, mankind would be better off), and therefore love of God.

There are activities that are beneficial to supporting that relationship and ideal. And, there are activities that are harmful to supporting that relationship and ideal.

Each and every one of those activities that are harmful to that commitment, to that relationship, is sin. Obviously, the consequences of sins vary greatly. A peek at a passing boob is one thing, physical adultery destroys trust, destroys families, harms kids, hurts people.

Lets look at porn as an example. Looking at porn gives you a sexual outlet that is not your spouse, and therefore reduces the potential for a more intimate relationship with your spouse. In addition, it creates mistrust when your spouse finds your porn watching habits, which leads to a more distant relationship. In addition, having porn around creates potential questions about the importance of marital commitment when your kids find your porn stash. It just does not have the opportunity to bring you closer together. And, in this context, you also have to consider the impact that your consumption of porn is having on the potential families / kids of the actors.

Jesus's advice is not to try and draw a line on what is and is not sin when it comes to sexuality outside of marriage. It is to do those things that are helpful to your marriage relationship, and marriage as an institution, and don't do anything that is potentially harmful to either of these.