quote:"the" will? Is there a wikipedia page for it?quote:Because politicians are elected to do the will of the people.quote:Can you tell me how a politician makes legislation without having personal beliefs about that legislation? Is there some "public beliefs" blob that we look to when crafting legislation? Is it like the South Park manatees?quote:Not true. Every Christian has a personal belief that every human should accept Christ, be baptized, take communion, etc. (I'm not even going to touch disagreements on the specifics on how to do those things) I don't think that many of those Christian would vote for a law making those things compulsory to be a citizen.
The quote doesn't even make sense. Anytime a politician votes, legislates, makes a public speech, it is their personal beliefs being imposed.
When will the American bishops start excommunicating Catholic pols who go astray?
4,305 Views |
48 Replies |
Last: 7 yr ago by diehard03
quote:quote:"the" will? Is there a wikipedia page for it?quote:Because politicians are elected to do the will of the people.quote:Can you tell me how a politician makes legislation without having personal beliefs about that legislation? Is there some "public beliefs" blob that we look to when crafting legislation? Is it like the South Park manatees?quote:Not true. Every Christian has a personal belief that every human should accept Christ, be baptized, take communion, etc. (I'm not even going to touch disagreements on the specifics on how to do those things) I don't think that many of those Christian would vote for a law making those things compulsory to be a citizen.
The quote doesn't even make sense. Anytime a politician votes, legislates, makes a public speech, it is their personal beliefs being imposed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_sovereignty
quote:
MQB:
I think we should clarify the difference between denying communion and excommunication. A priest can't excommunicate anyone, only bishops can do this. He can refuse the chalice to someone.
The priest's job is to pastor his parish and take care of his flock. If, for example, he knows a person is unrepentant and willfully sinning, he should not commune them. But he's not omniscient. If anything this whole discussion is an exercise in the examining the intermittent practice of priests only communing people they know in their parish, or at least inquiring before communion. Difficult, messy during Liturgy? Perhaps.
A bishop's job on the other hand is to pastor his episcopate and take care of his (larger) flock. The bishop can and should make judgments on matters such as this. This is why the Orthodox liturgy prays for the episcopate to rightly divide the word of Christ's Truth (and then for the priesthood and diaconate separately).
St Ambrose wrote in a letter:
The priest's job is to pastor his parish and take care of his flock. If, for example, he knows a person is unrepentant and willfully sinning, he should not commune them. But he's not omniscient. If anything this whole discussion is an exercise in the examining the intermittent practice of priests only communing people they know in their parish, or at least inquiring before communion. Difficult, messy during Liturgy? Perhaps.
A bishop's job on the other hand is to pastor his episcopate and take care of his (larger) flock. The bishop can and should make judgments on matters such as this. This is why the Orthodox liturgy prays for the episcopate to rightly divide the word of Christ's Truth (and then for the priesthood and diaconate separately).
St Ambrose wrote in a letter:
quote:And another letter:
If it were a civil cause the right of reply would be reserved for the opposing party; it is a religious cause, and I the bishop make a claim...Certainly if anything else is decreed, we bishops cannot contentedly suffer it and take no notice; you indeed may come to the church, but will find either no priest there, or one who will resist you.
quote:Would that we had a St Ambrose today to judge our "emperors" or a St John Chrysostom to homily to both Empresses (like Eudoxia) and the laity alike.
When have you heard, most gracious Emperor, that laymen gave judgment concerning a bishop in a matter of faith? Are we so prostrate through the flattery of some as to be unmindful of the rights of the priesthood, and do I think that I can entrust to others what God has given me? If a bishop is to be taught by a layman, what will follow? Let the layman argue, and the bishop listen, let the bishop learn of the layman. But undoubtedly, whether we go through the series of the holy Scriptures, or the times of old, who is there who can deny that, in a matter of faith,in a matter I say of faith,bishops are wont to judge of Christian emperors, not emperors of bishops.
Just a solid thumbs up for St. Ambrose, my confirmation Saint!
St.Ambrose before Ho's
quote:If John Doe Catholic never happens to be a judge, juror, or witness in a capital murder trial, what he believes about the death penalty is of no practical consequence.
If John Doe Catholic believes in his heart something contrary then that would obviously be pretty tough to enforce. Difference is doing it to John Doe wouldn't really send any kind of message anyways.
It's about money, if/when gov money stops flowing to the Church then they will be more willing to fight. Of course, we're Americans so we understand things differently, but my irish priest told me that Nicolas Sarkozy was called a defender of the faith, despite his support of abortion. It's hard to understand some things, as some things should be kept between confessor and person, but there's also the issue of not just the public personalities that support anti Catholic stances, but those who support it but aren't public figures, bc there's a **** ton.
The heart of the issue is faith, how much faith do these politicians actually have? What kind of real relationship with Christ do they have? Some people become Catholic without believing the marian doctrines, and may never get there. But what level of belief makes you a a Catholic? Hell, a majority don't even believe in the real presence in the U.S., ultimately I think it is shameful that they prostitute their "faith" just shut up. It is insulting,scandalous, and telling that someone like joe biden would pimp obama for sainthood, even jokingly.
The heart of the issue is faith, how much faith do these politicians actually have? What kind of real relationship with Christ do they have? Some people become Catholic without believing the marian doctrines, and may never get there. But what level of belief makes you a a Catholic? Hell, a majority don't even believe in the real presence in the U.S., ultimately I think it is shameful that they prostitute their "faith" just shut up. It is insulting,scandalous, and telling that someone like joe biden would pimp obama for sainthood, even jokingly.
quote:
The heart of the issue is faith, how much faith do these politicians actually have? What kind of real relationship with Christ do they have? Some people become Catholic without believing the marian doctrines, and may never get there. But what level of belief makes you a a Catholic? Hell, a majority don't even believe in the real presence in the U.S., ultimately I think it is shameful that they prostitute their "faith" just shut up. It is insulting,scandalous, and telling that someone like joe biden would pimp obama for sainthood, even jokingly.
The short answer is that just about everyone has a point in which they stop following Christ. Everyone.
The bishops appear to be too worried about their social issues (immigration, health care, muslim immigrants) to take any real stands. Their lack of spine is discouraging.
quote:
Following Christ according to who? You? I'm sure many of them have reconciled their positions with their beliefs and believe they are following Christ.
I don't really buy it personally. You can see it on this board - the gymnastics people put themselves through to try and rationalize a belief that's incompatible with Christ. They know, its' just human nature. You try and fit God around what your truth is. I'm even guilty of it.
It's not like Christianity is an enigma. You don't need to touch some controversial elements like homosexuality for my statement to be true. Christians all the time choose another path than that of Christ. Even you know how easy it is to spot the hypocrisy.
quote:
Again, I think many Christians who are following paths you say go against Christ would disagree with you. A lot of them probably believe they are following Christ. Claiming that they know in their hearts that you are right is not something I believe or find compelling.
Then they believe they don't sin. In the end, sin isn't something we just happen to fall into. You just don't make a mistake. You choose the sin over God.
I'm not making an argument for my flavor of Christianity, nor am I suggesting that how I feel about every issue is the correct one.
I am highlighting that we all make the "exchange", if you will. Sure, politicians do it publicly with hot button issues. But we all do it somewhere.
Featured Stories
See All
Brauny's Baseball Bullets: Ags fall in late innings to drop Hoover opener
by Ryan Brauninger
18:53
10h ago
5.2k
6:21
12h ago
2.0k
7:30
11h ago
896
Chrundle the Great
*****Aggies vs. Mississippi State - SEC Tournament Wednesday*****
in Texas A&M Baseball & Softball
5