Shogun 10-episode miniseries coming to FX

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Mayor West
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In reply to Belton Ag • 2:21p, 4/5/24
AG
Belton Ag said:
Also, a really good "companion" film that is set a couple decades after this show is the movie Silence. If you like the cultural aspect of this show that depicts how Japan dealt with opening up to Western influences should also watch that movie.

For historical accuracy I prefer The Last Samurai
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TCTTS
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3:07p, 4/8/24
AG
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TCTTS
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4:57p, 4/8/24
AG
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El Gallo Blanco
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In reply to TCTTS • 5:01p, 4/8/24
TCTTS said:
LOL
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Scriffer
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In reply to TCTTS • 5:41p, 4/8/24
AG
I'm feeling very attacked right now.




But truthfully, I would dig it if there weren't subtitles in front. I think the mix of in and out of focus in a tiny area that your eye is drawn to is what messes with me
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EclipseAg
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5:50p, 4/8/24
AG
I started a rewatch before the series ends ... it really helped me grasp what was happening in those early episodes and why certain events were significant.

Highly recommend.
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Joseph Freshwater, Sr
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In reply to TCTTS • 8:29p, 4/8/24
TCTTS said:


This might be the best meme ever made!!!
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Quad Dog
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In reply to TCTTS • 9:09p, 4/8/24
AG
I had a thought that maybe the blurry edges are there to hide CGI backgrounds and buildings, but can't confirm.
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C@LAg
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In reply to Quad Dog • 9:31p, 4/8/24
Quad Dog said:
I had a thought that maybe the blurry edges are there to hide CGI backgrounds and buildings, but can't confirm.
in some places yes. But overall the effect is "tuned" really high for Shogun and can sometimes be distracting, even with real backgrounds.
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PatAg
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11:05p, 4/8/24
AG
never once bothered me
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C@LAg
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2:37a, 4/9/24
congrats?



Poor Buntaro had a bad day.

Got dunked on by his wife, then denied by his dad.

And Toranaga using his best friend and son's deaths like that. What a dick.
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Stive
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2:13p, 4/9/24
AG
Man I loved this episode. Watched it at about 4:30 AM (didn't realize they dropped that early).

That exchange with the resulting seppuku was intense!
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Stive
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2:42p, 4/9/24
AG
And I just happen to be listening to Dan Carlins Hardcore History - Supernova in the East. It's 6 episodes about the Japanese aspects of WW2. Early on in the podcast he goes into quite a bit of depth trying to describe the Japanese cultures mindset prior to the war: suicide, honor, refusal to surrender, etc.

Listening to that, then watching this play out in this show is pretty intense and amazing.
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EclipseAg
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In reply to Stive • 8:30p, 4/9/24
AG
Stive said:
Man I loved this episode. Watched it at about 4:30 AM (didn't realize they dropped that early).

That exchange with the resulting seppuku was intense!
Wow ... that was wild. The intrigue and intensity just continues to ramp up.

This is such a great show. I think it ranks up with the likes of "Mad Men," "GoT" and others.

Also, I love Anna Sawai.

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TexAgBolter
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In reply to Stive • 8:35p, 4/9/24
AG
"The Japanese are like everyone else, only more so…"
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Stive
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In reply to TexAgBolter • 11:01p, 4/9/24
AG
TexAgBolter said:
"The Japanese are like everyone else, only more so…"

That quote rings in my head after those episodes.
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ChoppinDs40
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11:53p, 4/9/24
AG
My YTTV didn't start recording until 40 minutes in… there is literally no replay of it at all on FX.

How the hell and I going to be able to watch this episode? Does it not come onto VOD until tomorrow?!
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TCTTS
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3:09a, 4/10/24
AG
Holy sh*t.

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TCTTS
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In reply to C@LAg • 3:26a, 4/10/24
AG
C@LAg said:
congrats?



Poor Buntaro had a bad day.

Got dunked on by his wife, then denied by his dad.

And Toranaga using his best friend and son's deaths like that. What a dick.

They both willingly "sacrificed" themselves. Of Hiromatsu, Toranaga said toward the end, "He played his role well." And then he thanked his son in the final scene for buying them more time.

There was simply no other path.

All Toranaga did was play to both of their natural inclinations/what each would inevitably do.

In short, it was either surrender and they all die, or let his best friend and his son die in honor/aid of their cause (and hopefully their eventual victory).

Yes, both were brutal decisions, but also a no brainer in the end. And one of the few times I've ever thought "That was actually brilliant" when a character pulls off a supposedly "brilliant" strategic move against his foes.

What a play.

What an episode.
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TCTTS
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In reply to ChoppinDs40 • 3:31a, 4/10/24
AG
ChoppinDs40 said:
My YTTV didn't start recording until 40 minutes in… there is literally no replay of it at all on FX.

How the hell and I going to be able to watch this episode? Does it not come onto VOD until tomorrow?!

Look like it was released an hour-and-a-half ago, at midnight Pacific, on YTTV VOD. It's up now. That said, if you have a subscription to either app, it's also on Hulu and Disney+, and dropped 25 1/2 hours ago on both. Episodes hit the apps first, Tuesday at midnight, then air on FX on Tuesday nights, before going to VOD Wednesday at midnight.
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C@LAg
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In reply to TCTTS • 4:28a, 4/10/24


you are reading too much into my flippant comments.

i was just posting a quick reaction TO the episode (not OF the episode) since i was likely the first to finish watching it in the early hours.

I read the novel 2-3 weeks ago which is why I pretty much quit posting in this thread.

and while the deaths of these two characters does not occur in the novel, they still serve to drive the core plotline to the same climax we will see the next two weeks.
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ChoppinDs40
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In reply to TCTTS • 5:49a, 4/10/24
AG
I have Disney + (no Hulu) and did not see it. Searched with no results.
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Stive
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6:16a, 4/10/24
AG
Maybe I'm misremembering: did the son go "willingly"? Or was he just thanking the son for the 49 days of mourning that gave them time to gather themselves and reset the pieces so to speak?

Didn't the son act on his own pretty much and died accidentally? That didn't seem to be part of Toranaga's plan but he used it when it happened to buy him some time.

Or maybe I missed something.
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TCTTS
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In reply to Stive • 6:21a, 4/10/24
AG
His son didn't die willingly. But I imagine Toranaga at least considered the possibility that his son might retaliate, and either wasn't going to stop him, was willing to let him die in the process, or saw an opportunity once it happened.
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TCTTS
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In reply to ChoppinDs40 • 6:23a, 4/10/24
AG
ChoppinDs40 said:
I have Disney + (no Hulu) and did not see it. Searched with no results.


Sorry, I forgot that if you don't also have a Hulu subscription it doesn't show up in Disney+. You have to either have both or the bundle to be able to watch Hulu content in Disney+.
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zap
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In reply to TCTTS • 8:08a, 4/10/24
AG
TCTTS said:
His son didn't die willingly. But I imagine Toranaga at least considered the possibility that his son might retaliate, and either wasn't going to stop him, was willing to let him die in the process, or saw an opportunity once it happened.
I believe Toranaga anticipated his son would do something reckless (which would ultimately seal his own fate.) All these clan members are helping T out just by being themselves.
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Definitely Not A Cop
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In reply to zap • 8:37a, 4/10/24
AG
Yeah, there is the scene early in the show where Toronaga is talking to his son about falconry, and how (paraphrasing) you don't actually control the bird, you just have to know how they are going to react to different stimuli. He's using the same strategy for war, both with his enemies and his allies. It's completely cold yet effective.

I don't think he necessarily expected his son to go after his brother, or die, but I do think he immediately removed his personal feelings out of the equation and used it to advance the chess board to his gain.
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FL_Ag1998
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9:00a, 4/10/24
AG
Yeah, Toronaga is clearly a guy who's just incredible at checking his emotions plus reading other people. So he simply lets everyone around him react how they'll inevitably react and he uses that however he can to his advantage.

So he knew his son was a hothead and likely to do something stupid and Toronaga was ready to use it to his advantage, whatever his son did.
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Stive
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9:22a, 4/10/24
AG
My perception last night was that the old man was in on it. He was, right? Isn't that what was being stated to Mariko at the end? He was either asked to kill himself and agreed, or was told to and obeyed prior to the climactic scene. Toranaga didn't "play" him and drive him to it right? If so, that's a pretty impressive back and forth acting job they did to sell it to everyone else.

And why would he ask his son to second him?
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FL_Ag1998
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In reply to Stive • 10:25a, 4/10/24
AG
Stive said:
My perception last night was that the old man was in on it. He was, right? Isn't that what was being stated to Mariko at the end? He was either asked to kill himself and agreed, or was told to and obeyed prior to the climactic scene. Toranaga didn't "play" him and drive him to it right? If so, that's a pretty impressive back and forth acting job they did to sell it to everyone else.

And why would he ask his son to second him?


This one is a little harder for me to decide on, but I go back to that one line of dialogue in an earlier scene...all of the younger guys are disgruntled that Toronaga is just giving up, but the old guy stops them and says to them along the lines of, "Our Lord is going to fight. Otherwise why would he send the message of surrender back with the priest."

The old man knows Toronaga has something planned. I'm just not sure if he's fully in on it or if he just trusts his lord enough not to question him, and instead just play along with whatever Toronage is pushing and blindly do whatever he's told to do.

I tend to think that even the old man didn't fully know Toronaga's plan and he just blindly put his faith in him, simply because they've portrayed Toronaga as someone who always keeps all of his cards close to his vest, spilling his details to no one.
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dude95
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In reply to TCTTS • 11:27a, 4/10/24
AG
TCTTS said:
ChoppinDs40 said:
I have Disney + (no Hulu) and did not see it. Searched with no results.


Sorry, I forgot that if you don't also have a Hulu subscription it doesn't show up in Disney+. You have to either have both or the bundle to be able to watch Hulu content in Disney+.
I have both - but the commercial Hulu. Commercials didn't show up for a few weeks on Disney+ and so we were watching over there. Last episode, Disney+ was glitching all night.

Every time a commercial came up, it bounced me back to the first commercial. The breaks were much shorter (45 seconds??), but then had to fast forward to just after the commercial in the spot I was in. Really annoying.

I should upgrade my Hulu. It's tied with Max for the best streaming service in my opinion. Wish the wife would let me gid rid of old cable tv all together. She's the only one who watches outside of football season.
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zap
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In reply to Stive • 11:29a, 4/10/24
AG
Stive said:

And why would he ask his son to second him?
This was hard for me to understand. My guess is since seppuku is considered honorable, it is also honorable to be asked to second?
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Stive
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In reply to zap • 12:07p, 4/10/24
AG
zap said:
Stive said:

And why would he ask his son to second him?
This was hard for me to understand. My guess is since seppuku is considered honorable, it is also honorable to be asked to second?

Could be, I have no idea other than a few podcasts and having watched Last Samurai.

In Last Samarai, the main Samurai helped the general (seconded) that lost the first battle and then referred later to it being a "good death, and an honorable death". So maybe you're right…as emotionally tough as that would be for our western wired brains, perhaps that was a compliment in their arena.

And good…glad I'm not the only one that was wondering about whether Hitsomoto was in on it or not. I thought maybe I had missed an obvious clue or statement in there somewhere that stated it one way or another.
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jenn96
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In reply to zap • 12:16p, 4/10/24
AG
zap said:
Stive said:

And why would he ask his son to second him?
This was hard for me to understand. My guess is since seppuku is considered honorable, it is also honorable to be asked to second?

The second is there to guarantee a good death. Seppuku requires slitting the belly stoically and without reacting, but once the samurai has made the cut, their culture allows a second to cut off their head so that the actual death is quick. It is an honor to be asked and a real responsibility not to dishonor the death by screwing up.
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dude95
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In reply to FL_Ag1998 • 1:34p, 4/10/24
AG
FL_Ag1998 said:
Stive said:
My perception last night was that the old man was in on it. He was, right? Isn't that what was being stated to Mariko at the end? He was either asked to kill himself and agreed, or was told to and obeyed prior to the climactic scene. Toranaga didn't "play" him and drive him to it right? If so, that's a pretty impressive back and forth acting job they did to sell it to everyone else.

And why would he ask his son to second him?


This one is a little harder for me to decide on, but I go back to that one line of dialogue in an earlier scene...all of the younger guys are disgruntled that Toronaga is just giving up, but the old guy stops them and says to them along the lines of, "Our Lord is going to fight. Otherwise why would he send the message of surrender back with the priest."

The old man knows Toronaga has something planned. I'm just not sure if he's fully in on it or if he just trusts his lord enough not to question him, and instead just play along with whatever Toronage is pushing and blindly do whatever he's told to do.

I tend to think that even the old man didn't fully know Toronaga's plan and he just blindly put his faith in him, simply because they've portrayed Toronaga as someone who always keeps all of his cards close to his vest, spilling his details to no one.
Expectation is someone will be telling the Osaka crew that Toronaga is so bent on surrendering that he is willing to have his best friend commit seppuku. I think it's a ruse - whether it was agreed on by the old man before hand or it was because Toronaga just knew he would do it. I don't understand who is the messenger though - the priest?

The son is the second because he knows he will do a good job. Don't want to make a mess out of it.
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