KILL THIS THREAD OR F-ING SUCK MY BALLS Y'ALL!












KILL THIS THREAD OR F-ING SUCK MY BALLS Y'ALL!

what? you are the one that keeps bringing it back up

THIS IS A MOST EXCELENT THREAD!

SUCK MY BALLS DAMMIT!

SUCK 'EM!

SUCK 'EM DRY!

Wow. As someone who learned to fly before I learned to drive, and pass my instructors exam before I passed my driving exam:

Planes fly because of airflow over and under the wings, providing lift. A stationary plane can take off with enough wind. This is why many planes must be tied down.

Assuming the air is calm, the tredmill keeps the plane in a fixed relative position on earth, then the plane will not fly.

The engines do not put (enough) air onto the wings to create lift. They drive the plane forward so that (relatively) stationary air provides lift as the airplane moves forward.

Dude, really. Read the thread. The plane moves.

TxsAggieFn, buy yourself a couple of vowels and think about this: in 16 pages do you think people haven't posed the same question you just did?

It flies. There are valid visualizations and formulaic proofs ALL OVER this thread. We've proved the system. We've proved the wording of the original question. We've proved the systematic interaction forces. And we've proved the existence of an EXTERNAL force from the jet's turbines.

Stand on a skateboard holding a 100-lb weight. Throw the weight in one direction. You move in the other. THAT is the response of the air going through the turbines. EXTERNAL FORCE. Wheels irrelevant.

It flies. Thread was over on page one.

Sorry. I read the original question (it is worded poorly), thought about it very little, skipped to the end and replied.

My bad.

It is essentially the same thing as a float plane on a river.

No problem. Please excuse my temper. It's easy for me to get upset when this thread is so full of everybody explaining why the problem is so counter-intuitive.

I guess I've become mildly irritable.

No worries. The conveyor belt / treadmill concept is a red herring, and you (well, I) start thinking about that too much.

It wasn't until I started thinking from INSIDE the cockpit that the answer is obvious.

So much for thinking "outside".

Now that we have determined that the plane takes off .... where in the Sam Hill is it going?

[This message has been edited by IIIHorn (edited 12/8/2006 8:19a).]

I Love this thread.

Everybody can be right as long as they define what they mean by "speed" and how it is measured and how the conveyor relates to it.

We all win!!

Excellent thread.









Does it fly??? Maybe, and that's final!

Everybody does not win. How does a plane measure its speed? You are wrong

EDIT: and now you have me arguing a point that is not even relevant to the problem. The conveyor doesn't affect the plane no matter how the speed is measured.....end of story

[This message has been edited by CopeIt (edited 12/8/2006 8:29a).]

The conveyor is moot.

So, does the plane take off or not???

I wish IIIHorn were mute sometimes.

Get a life Cope!

I have a life......it involves sitting at my desk and studying only to take breaks to argue obvious facts with you.

Ranger65, will it take off???

The surveyor is mute.

I must say that when I first read this question I too immediately said it wouldn't take off because its stationary. Obviously(now), the very crux of the problem is to figure out if the plane is stationary or not(everyone would agree that a stationary plane can't take off--without a huge headwind). So while many have argued about every other thing under the sun, the real question here is still the same. Will it move forward. The answer is a definite yes. The wheels and the conveyor would increase in speed in relation to one another but that would not have any(or very little)effect on the planes forward movement.

Oh and if you havent read the rest of the thread, you havent thought enough about it to respond.

[This message has been edited by traveler1 (edited 12/8/2006 9:22a).]

The plane is NOT moving anywhere. When i put my car on the dyno, it was hooked up, and the speedometer said 65mph...was it moving?

Absolutely not.

Planes aren't cars jed...

wow jed.....

I wonder if Jed's car took off?

ttt for OF

OF

You are good .... REAL good.

quote:

---

But they are the thing that transfers the propulsion into usable energy to propel the plane forward.

---

one of the worst claims on this thread...

the wheels simply reduce the friction between the plane and the ground. The plane could be on skids and still have forward movement, only with a lot more friction.

When you throttle dense, hot air out of the back of a jet engine (or high velocity air on a prop) the higher pressure comming out of the rear creates thrust...very similar to the pelvic kind that you may or may not be familiar with. Thrust is the driving force behind an airplane. Just because there is no solid mechanism (rope, driveshaft, cable) that propels an airplane, this does not mean that some other aspect of physics cannot be used.

BTW, what do you think about all these people talking on phones that aren't even attached to anything? Or that mysterious box in your automobile that has millions of tiny bands in it that plays music for you while you drive? They aren't attached to anything, so they can't work?

So ... it does take off?


Right?

No Horn it doesnt....I have changed my mind. It won't take off, no question about it anymore. All you people are idiots who think it will.....learn how to read noobs.

Did my plane take off?

The plane will not take off.

The experts have spoken, now move on.

Will that be smoking or non-smoking?

The plane takes off ... the conveyor doesn't.