Green tabs on corps uniform?

14,199 Views | 58 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by aggiejim70
3rdGenAg06
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AG
Came across this picture



And was confused. I thought they were for unit commanders. Why is a junior wearing them?
Montgomery Burns
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A few years ago they changed the policy. Anyone in the direct chain of command gets them. TeamLeaders up to Corps Commander.
jfadioustoad
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Just more flair on the uniforms to make everyone feel special. You will also notice if you walk around campus that just about everyone has a cord of some sort. It's a little excessive if you ask me.
Montgomery Burns
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My senior year as a unit commander was the first year they had them. Wasn't about adding flare.

The Corps has really emphasized leadership further down the chain to the platoon, squad, and team level. The green tabs were a part of that, and it had a really positive result.
Trident15
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^I'll second the above. The addition of green tabs had an extremely positive result as it is a symbol of responsibility. When team leaders are failing in their duties, they can have their green tabs taken away. The Corps now has fully functioning chains of command in each unit rather than a Commander that does everything.
DBSwooper
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quote:
My senior year as a unit commander was the first year they had them. Wasn't about adding flare.

The Corps has really emphasized leadership further down the chain to the platoon, squad, and team level. The green tabs were a part of that, and it had a really positive result.

At first glance I would have agreed that it is just another piece of flair, but after following my old outfit around for the past two years photographing their adventures I can see the positive influence that some of the small changes like this has made.

After many years of no contact with my old outfit, starting a long term personal photography project with the current cadets, I have been extremely impressed with the positive changes made. Yes some of "old army" is gone, but some of it is gone for the better! What I have found is that the spirit of the Corps is strong, not to mention that the cadets, in my old outfit at least, are more fit and have better grades than we could of ever dreamed. The fish are still fish and still have the stress of being a fish, even if they aren't getting smoked in uniform in the mornings before class anymore.

Remember, old army first went to hell in 1877.
Fly Army 97
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The Army used green tabs for decades until we stopped using the Army greens. My squad leaders to BDE CDR wore them... Only those actually in the chain of command. Team leader, squad leader, platoon sergeant, platoon leader, etc.

Good for the Corps -
jfadioustoad
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When I was there we just used rank to denote a leadership billet. For example a platoon sgt would wear E-7 rank, while a junior who was not cadre would wear E-6 rank.
74OA
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There's a distinct qualitative difference in both authority and responsibility between those merely in the chain and those actually in command. I appreciate the Corps' intent, but it's too bad that they did it at the expense of diluting a symbol that was once reserved to identify those few entrusted with unit command. I suspect that any improvement in leadership had little to do with the simple distribution of tabs.

As for citation cords, if the following list is accurate, then they have proliferated beyond any utility. How can an organization of only 2,500 rationalize 20+ different citation cords? When so many are cited, then cords lose their symbolic value as a motivator, reward and discriminator. How did ribbons or insignia of high rank cease to be sufficient recognition for almost all of the below?

a. The General George F. Moore Award for the outstanding company size unit (White cord).
b. The George P. F. Jouine Award for the outstanding academic achievement of a non-technical company sized unit (Maroon and white cord).
c. Buchanon Award for the outstanding academic achievement of a technical company sized unit (Red Cord).
d. The Major General Bruno A. Hochmuth Award for the outstanding military achievement of a company sized unit (Maroon-white braid cord).
e. The Robert M. Gates Public Service Award for the outstanding public service achievement of a company sized unit (Red-white-blue braid cord).
f. The Commandant's Award for the outstanding university activities achievement of a company sized unit (Maroon cord).
g. The J. J. Sanchez Award for the outstanding recruiting and retention achievement of a company sized unit. (Green and white cord).
h. Corps Commander Cord (Maroon and white cord).
i. Deputy Corps Commander and Major Unit Commander Cords (White-maroon braid cord).
j. Ross Volunteer Company (Gold and white cord).
k. Fish Drill Team (Maroon-white braid cord).
l. Simpson Honor Society (Blue and white cord).
m. Parsons Mounted Cavalry (Gold cord).
n. Singing Cadets/Women's Chorus/Century Singers (White cord).
o. Corps Center Guard (Maroon and grey cord).
p. Color Guard (Maroon cord).
q. Arnold Air Society (Gold and blue cord).
r. Cadet Leadership Committee (Red and White cord).
s. Eagle Post (Red, white and blue braided cord)
t. Darling Recruiting Company (Green and gold braid cord).
u. Current service cords.

I bolded the organizations that warranted cords while I was in the Corps, FWIW. Believe me, because cords were so scarce and valued, we worked overtime to earn the right to wear them and respected those that did. Don't get me wrong, I have high regard for where the Corps stands today in everything else that matters. JMO........ '74
93Spur
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I don't worry about the Green Tab thing. In my time is was just for COs. For other members of the family, there were no green tabs at all. In all times if you were a leader, you led. Recognition was never a goal and I doubt it is now, though an attaboy is always nice - whether tabs or not. If this is working for today's Corps, so be it.

I was surprised at the cord list. This does seem to have proliferated substantially since the early 90s. Back then we had outfit recognition was limited to Moore, Jouine, Hockmuth for units (others were just a flag, and there was not Gates or Buchanon. JJ was a friend, so there was no such award at the time.). Speciality Unit cords were limited to RVs, FDTs, PMC, and (maybe) Color Guard. The only other cord was Simpson. Corps Center had a pin (been there done that) - no cord.

Still, I suspect that since leaders lead and followers follow, there is a lot of overlap among these cords, i.e. the Corps Commander might be an RV, who was in the Cav, who was FDT (there are some cadets who have done all three) and who might also be Corps Center, etc. Seems like a lot, but I see quite a few cadets without any cord.
bigtruckguy3500
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Yeah, I'm not really sure giving me a green tab as a sophomore would've affected my performance as a squad leader. But if it works, it works.

quote:
I bolded the organizations that warranted cords while I was in the Corps, FWIW. Believe me, because they were so scarce and elite, people fought for the right to wear them. Don't get me wrong, I have deep respect for where the Corps stands today in everything else that matters.

I think, to add to your bolded cords, OR Simpson and the Cav should also have cords. I have a lot of respect for the cav, seeing how hard they work (at least as an underclassman). I think good grades should be rewarded as well, as it's pretty hard to get a 3.5 in the Corps (at least when I was there, especially in a technical major). And I think I think red pots or butt pots used to have the maroon cord that color guard wears now, if I'm not mistaken. If bonfire ever came back in the same capacity, and they work as hard as they used to, I think them wearing a cord would be ok.
74OA
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Ok.
bigplay
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740A. No, your list is no longer accurate. Several of those cords were discontinued in the last couple of years.
74OA
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Only several?
OldArmy71
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Why in the world would the Corps Commander, DCC, and major unit commanders need CORDS? Isn't the rank obvious?
CharlieBrown17
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A-I and U are the only authorized cords out of that list. I also think the CC wears the same cord as MUCs not a different cord

So 7 out of 42 outfits have cords plus the special unit cords.

It's no where near everyone. And all but FDT are only a one year cord that has to be reearned or won.
74OA
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Thanks for the update, 17. Please note that I never said everyone has a cord, just that proliferation dilutes their effectiveness as a motivator and identifier of excellence. An over 300% increase in unit cords since I attended is still surprising--although I in no way suggest that two unit cords is some sort of sacred threshold never to be breached. Time moves on and useful change is always desirable.

I just find such an extensive substitution of elite cords for ribbons to be significant inflation and, in particular, the need for cords to identify the most senior commanders, including the only four-diamond on campus, to be mindboggling. Too much of a good thing can eventually be self-defeating.

Anyway, if I didn't care about our Corps, I wouldn't bother to offer my humble opinion.....
Rabid Cougar
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Need to be like the Army unit at Fort Carson. No awards, medals or qualification badges on uniforms. No more "look at me"
CharlieBrown17
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I wasn't saying you specifically said that but that seems to be a vocal opinion around here at times.

I have a feeling there's a deeper reason to that at Ft Carson but I may be mistaken.

Most cords are worn with pride not as look at me, ribbons and medals on the other hand....

FILO505
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While I can identify the sentiment and motivation behind that move at Carson, it is beyond idiotic. The Army isn't making up tons of new awards so everybody feels better and the type of soldiers that go to schools specifically to add to their uniform generally aren't the types that people trust. Maybe soldiers at Ft. Carson should strive to progress their own careers instead of worrying about others'. If it's all about being a level playing field, the only thing in the uniform should be the US Army tape.
74OA
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What Fort Carson does has nothing to do with the A&M Corps.

No hijacking, please.

FILO505
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Lemme make the correlation clearer. What Carson is doing is idiotic because it would be similar to one MUC deciding nobody in his command gets to wear anything.

The green tabs are leadership tabs that come and go, so it's not the same. The amount of cords seems large, but keep in mind that the Band tends to win a lot of awards so that's already 1/6th of the Corps in cords. Add in RVs, MUCs, PMC and FDT and you're looking at a decent sized number. Add on every cadet above a 3.5 GPA and there's another bump. Though some of the cords seem like they could be a bit of a reach, I personally don't have any problem with them.
CT'97
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So we get mad when the Corps isn't cadet run but then get upset when the Cadets are running things but make choices we don't like?
74OA
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Speaking for myself, I'm not "mad" in the least. I'm just curious what the rationale is for so many cords.

Award creation and associated regalia are primarilary Trigon decisions. Cadet participation is limited to helping decide who the annual winners are.

But even if the number of cords is cadet decided, it doesn't mean they haven't perhaps gone overboard.
Warrior 66
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I've watched with great interest the many and varied comments concerning both the green tabs and the cords worn by our cadets today. Hopefully I can shed a little bit of light on what exactly has occurred and why. But I will say that several people on this thread have been very eloquent - and accurate - with respect to the impact of both green tabs and cords in our Corps.

First, we decided to go with green tabs for all leaders - from ASLs to the Corps Commander - to instill some pride and recognition in those who truly lead others in our Corps. It was also an attempt to combat apathy among those cadets - especially white belts - who felt they had no leadership position and thus basically "quit" and did the bare minimum they could while in the Corps. In many cases we had cadets who felt they were "non-leaders" not going to formation, not going to PT, and in some cases, not going to Corps march-ins and football games. It was simply unacceptable to have cadets feeling that they no longer had to participate simply because they felt they were not "leaders." The mindset was, "the only one who wears the green tabs is the Commander, and if you're not the Commander, you're not really a leader in the Corps." It was a backward and irresponsible way to view leadership in the Corps, and we realized early on that we needed to fix it.

We instituted the green tabs for ALL cadets who lead other cadets basically from the Army's system of having leaders of soldiers wear green tabs. We instituted the system 3 years ago, and its been a huge success. Cadets take pride in wearing their green tabs, recognizing them as those who directly lead other cadets, and its proven very successful - along with the Platoon System for all units - in helping to combat the apathy that was rampant in the Corps when I first got here. Its not perfect, and we still have to fight apathy all the time, but its a huge step in the right direction, and our cadets have taken it and owned it. Commanders have the authority to remove green tabs from those cadets not meeting the standard, and that has proven very effective also. The bottom line is that now all cadets wearing green tabs know they are leaders, accept that responsibility, and fully understand that they must lead well or risk losing their position and their tabs. Its been far more successful than I ever anticipated.

When I got here as Commandant I too felt that the Corps had over-proliferated cords, and 2 years ago we cut back on over half of them. Charlie Brown is correct - most of the cords listed by 740A are no longer worn by cadets. Again, I'm not sure we'll ever have a perfect system of awards and decorations, but in my opinion, after 31 years of military service, if a cord, ribbon, badge, or even a coin can make a soldier or cadet perform better, or instill pride in them and what they and their fellow soldiers/cadets have achieved, then I'm ok with that.

I knew soldiers who would go to hell and back for you for a coin or just a pat on the back and a "you done good" in front of his buddies, and our cadets are no different. We've cut back a lot on cords and other decorations in the time I've been here, but I still firmly believe that a little positive recognition goes a LONG way when it comes to soldiers and cadets. And if it helps them perform better, helps instill pride in them, their unit, and their Corps, then I'm all for it. You can say its all about this generation feeling "entitled," but I wear a chest full of medals, ribbons and badges that I EARNED over 31 years of military service, and I'm PROUD to wear them, and I was proud to have received them. This generation is no different, and I'll gladly award them with a ribbon, a badge, a cord, or even a coin for a job well done if they've earned it, if it helps make them better cadets, and if it helps instill pride in them and their unit. You don't have to agree, but I would argue that it works in our military today, and it also works in our Corps today - for all the RIGHT reasons.

One last point: I couldn't agree more with Tomb Daddy about the unit at Carson. Not only a stupid decision by that Cdr, but I can't believe that a Division Cdr would allow that to happen. Its not about "look at me." Its about treating soldiers right, and rewarding them for a job well done. Seriously, something as small as an Army Achievement Medal, Army Commendation Medal, or even a Good Conduct Medal is a problem for our Army?? Not in the Army I was in. I wonder how many of those officers at Carson wear their uniforms for promotion boards with no awards, ribbons, badges, or other decorations they've been awarded? And I wonder how our 7 MOH recipients would feel about that policy? Absolute idiocy, and I can't believe anyone would allow Army leaders to do that to our soldiers. Our soldiers - many of whom are combat vets with multiple deployments today - deserve better.

I hope this clears things up concerning the issue that started this thread. Again, you don't have to agree, but at least now you know the rationale behind the decision. I appreciate your love and passion for our Corps.

Thanks and Gig 'em!
74OA
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Thanks for weighing-in, Sir. As someone who similarly wore his hard-earned decorations with pride during the course of 30 years of military service, I echo much of your sentiment. I also appreciate the time you took from your busy schedule to compose such a lengthy reply. I trust you took my comments in the spirit they were intended, and that my suggestion that a further rebalancing of cord versus ribbons may perhaps be appropriate is no reflection on the scrub you already initiated. V/R, '74

"A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon". Napoleon, 1815

"....but only if it means something". Me, 2015
CharlieBrown17
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Personally I like cords. Outfits earn them, special units earn them. They mean something and take time. Ribbons on the other hand are easier to come by. Don't see heads with cords unless they're unit or OR Simpson but there are heads running around with a full block of nine ribbons already. As a rising butt I think that is ridiculous.
bigtruckguy3500
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quote:
Personally I like cords. Outfits earn them, special units earn them. They mean something and take time. Ribbons on the other hand are easier to come by. Don't see heads with cords unless they're unit or OR Simpson but there are heads running around with a full block of nine ribbons already. As a rising butt I think that is ridiculous.
There were a few cords back when I was in that you could get for just joining a certain "unit." I think part of the incentive to join the unit was intended to be the cord. It was kind of ridiculous.

Are cadets with infantry cords allowed to wear two cords? I saw that a couple times when I was on campus after graduating a few years go. That, combined with a full 9 ribbons, and other little doodads on their uniforms made it looks just as bad as the kids that come for JCAP.
CharlieBrown17
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RV, FDT, OR Simpsons and PMC are the only special unit cords authorized as of now I'm pretty sure. IMO they all do enough to earn theirs. OR has to have a certain GPA and must log tutoring hours. The other three should be self explanatory as to why they are earned not given.
Warrior 66
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I have NEVER seen a cadet of ANY class wearing NINE ribbons - not even the Corps Commander. I would offer that thats a stretch, at best, and if there ARE cadets wearing nine ribbons, that there are VERY few of them. The only ones I can think of would be some of our veterans in D Company, who are authorized to wear the ribbons and medals they earned while on active duty. I also allow them to wear the patch of the unit they served with in Iraq and/or Afghanistan on their uniform. I doubt anyone would find fault with THOSE cadets wearing numerous ribbons, medals, and badges that they earned on active duty - and in many cases, in combat - on their cadet uniforms.

As for military cords, the only one that comes to mind is the Infantry cord, earned by those who have attended Army Basic Training and Infantry AIT afterward. Those cadets - and we have many of them - are authorized to wear their Infantry blue cord that they earned after Infantry AIT on their cadet uniform. The same goes for those who attend Army schools while they are cadets - Airborne, Air Assault, etc. Once they complete any of those schools, they are authorized to wear that military medal on their cadet uniform. Back when I was in the Corps, many Army contract cadets got to attend Ranger School as cadets, and proudly wore their Ranger Tabs on their cadet uniforms upon successful completion of Ranger School (usually during the summer between their junior and senior year). The Army no longer allows ROTC cadets to attend Ranger School, but if they did, our cadets would be allowed to wear that Ranger Tab with pride (and rightfully so) on their cadet uniform.

When it comes to cadet cords, if a cadet is authorized to wear more than one, he/she must choose which one they want to wear. They only wear ONE cadet cord - not two.

CharlieBrown17
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The first person I thought of had 9 Sir, he's in a picture with the CC who is also wearing nine here.



It happens. There's also a large number of heads with 6 ribbons
CharlieBrown17
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CharlieBrown17
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Another who has 9 and has had 6-9 for most of sophomore year.

Both of these cadets are rising butts now. They're out there, not saying its the norm but it seems more like a look at me than cords to me. But as the saying goes, to each his own.
CharlieBrown17
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granted this is Corps Staff but there are 3 more here

Montgomery Burns
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9 was there max authorized when I was there.
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