DonaldFDraper said:

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Great info!

Bumping this old thread to ask a couple questions...

I am eligible for a HSA through my employer through UMB Healthcare Services. It looks like the $2.50 monthly fee is waived after my deposit is $3,000 or more. It looks like the offer Vanguard funds, which is nice, but there is a $3 per month "Investment Fee".

Is that fee pretty standard? Still worth maxing out vs. contributing to a brokerage account (maxed Roth IRA, no 401k offered)?

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My HSA plan used to be through HSA bank and they had some BS fees that could amount to $3.50/month. I had our HR lady look into it and she switched me to an Inland Bank HSA account that doesn't have any fees. My HSA is a basic checking account. I don't think it earns any investment returns or interest.

We are charged a $3 monthly investment fee as well.

HSAs can also be passed on tax free if part of an estate (<$5M or so). However, the features described above are not understood by most voters and the information is suppressed by the media.

HSAs are being phased out and will soon be extinct. No Obamacare plans permit one. Load em up while you got it because saving for your contingencies doesn't make you dependent on the system.

Think about it. Putting $6,000 into an HSA probably denies Uncle Sam around $2,000 in taxes. That's $2,000 you elect how and when to spend - not them.

Is there a deadline on when they'll no longer be available ?

Think above response is accurate.

Now, all pre-tax contributions to premiums or any savings accounts, whether they be yours or your employer's, will be factored in to whether or not your employer owes the so-called "Cadillac plan tax", which is supposed to go into effect in 2018. But, there is no "phase-out" of HSAs due to that. The Cadillac tax may just reduce how much your employer is willing to contribute.

Potentially a dumb question...

In order for me to move to a HDHP, it would cost about a $1000 per year more in insurance premiums than my current cost. Does it still make sense to move to the HDHP to be able to contribute to a HSA?

Fortunately, I am pretty healthy and do not spend more than a few hundred dollars on medical expenses per year.

Interesting...that is the first time I've heard of a move to HDHP being higher in premiums.

For you then, I would imagine it comes down more to what it does to deductibles and OOP maximums. The benefits of the HSA are laid out really well in this thread, but I guess there is a situation where it may not make sense if you can invest or save it via a different vehicle than the HSA, and keep your overall expenses for healthcare as low as possible.

Here is a snap shot, the far right column is the HDHP.

After the $1000 difference, fees associated with the HSA, and limited fund options, it may be better / simpler for me to stick the money into my brokerage account.

http://imgur.com/a/s8oOX

Does your employer contribute anything to your HSA?

No.

Bump...

Have had HSA for over a decade. Use HSA Bank and while the fees are a pain early on, and little to no interest being paid, once you have a certain level you can move funds to TD Ameritrade.

I max out contribution every year and use very little for expenses.

Apologies for bumping again but I need to enroll with my employer... I am not sure it worth the extra $1000 per month in insurance premiums.

edit - misread. an extra $1k a month in premiums? are you certain that's correct?

DonaldFDraper said:

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Apologies for bumping again but I need to enroll with my employer... I am not sure it worth the extra $1000 per month in insurance premiums.

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Has your employer given you any indication as to why the HDHP is MORE expensive? I think that's why you haven't gotten much response - this has us scratching our heads. At my company, the HDHP is the cheapest option (premiums are actually completely free for employees and their dependents), so we save on that, get $500 or $1000 deposited into our HSA by the company, and can also contribute to the HSA ourselves. It's a win-win. Your options aren't that straightforward...especially since the HDHP has the lowest deductible but the highest OOP max.

can you include the labels above that chart? call me crazy, but it seems like the HDHP is on the left...

I guess it all depends on how much money you want/need to shelter tax-free. Your premiums are pre-tax regardless. If you want to sock away another $3400 or $6750 each year tax-free, then paying the extra premiums could be worth it (assuming you won't miss the income).

nothing about that chart makes sense. HDHPs usually have a higher deductible, lower out of pocket max, and lower monthly premiums. PPO usually has lower copay and lower deductible, but higher premium. i've never seen it the other way around. something definitely feels off about those numbers.

if those numbers are correct, the HDHP doesn't make a lot of sense. but i'm skeptical. just look at the numbers - the HDHP has the same deductible as option 2 for in network, the lowest deductible for out of network, and the highest out of pocket max. that's exactly the opposite of how they're supposed to work. i'd ask for clarification from an HR/benefits type ASAP.

That was my thought as well when I was reading, it didn't make much sense especially when I noticed it was more expensive.

It is a small company (150 ish) employees and the HR person isn't super knowledgeable. Plus I work remotely so I can't easily stop by to talk to them.

I may just forgo the HSA for now and keep putting the money into my brokerage account.

Sorry I went dark after posting, had a really busy week. Others have already beaten me to the punch, but I fully agree. Those options are crazy, and have me puzzled. I was also going to ask you to post a pic with the titles, but that made it even worse In your case, I would forgo the HDHP and take the lowest premiums since you don't go to the dr often. You will be missing the tax benefits of the HSA, but without getting some of that premium loss back in employer contributions, I'm not sure there is a case where that would make sense to me.

I appreciate the feedback guys. Confirmed my thoughts that 1. The insurance plans themselves do not make much sense and 2. The HSA isn't a good fit for me.

By the way, the response from HR on why the HDHP was a higher premium was "The HDHP plan is higher because there is less out-of-pocket expenses compared to the other plans."

DonaldFDraper said:

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I appreciate the feedback guys. Confirmed my thoughts that 1. The insurance plans themselves do not make much sense and 2. The HSA isn't a good fit for me.

By the way, the response from HR on why the HDHP was a higher premium was "The HDHP plan is higher because there is less out-of-pocket expenses compared to the other plans."

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That is the exact opposite of what an HDHP is supposed to be!

According to healthcare.gov

https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/high-deductible-health-plan/

High Deductible Health Plan (HDHP)

A plan with a higher deductible than a traditional insurance plan. Usually the monthly premium is lower, but you have to pay more health care costs yourself (your deductible) before the insurance company starts to pay its share. A high deductible plan can be combined with a health savings account or a health reimbursement arrangement. This allows you to pay for certain medical expenses with untaxed dollars.

Yeah. It really doesn't make sense.

DonaldFDraper said:

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By the way, the response from HR on why the HDHP was a higher premium was "The HDHP plan is higher because there is less out-of-pocket expenses compared to the other plans."

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that's not even what the image you posted showed. the HDPD had the highest out of pocket max. they've screwed something up.

Yeah. I'll have to tackle it next time I'm at the home office.

ac04 said:

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DonaldFDraper said:

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By the way, the response from HR on why the HDHP was a higher premium was "The HDHP plan is higher because there is less out-of-pocket expenses compared to the other plans."

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that's not even what the image you posted showed. the HDPD had the highest out of pocket max. they've screwed something up.

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I was confused by that, too. But only the out-of-network charges showed an OOP max. The in-network charges for the three options were all $0 for OOP max. But that doesn't even make sense to me, because shouldn't the OOP max at least be the deductible?

What does the SPD state? Is it different from the summary page?

SPD?

TXTransplant said:

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ac04 said:

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DonaldFDraper said:

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By the way, the response from HR on why the HDHP was a higher premium was "The HDHP plan is higher because there is less out-of-pocket expenses compared to the other plans."

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that's not even what the image you posted showed. the HDPD had the highest out of pocket max. they've screwed something up.

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I was confused by that, too. But only the out-of-network charges showed an OOP max. The in-network charges for the thre optiokd were all $0 for OOP max. But that doesn't even make sense to me, because shouldn't the OOP max at least be the deductible?

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OOP maxes and out of pocket expenses can be two different things depending on who is talking. Copays typically never count toward OOP max and deductibles may or may not depending on the plan.