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I need the SMU pic

dubag
8:10a, 2/4/06
A
of our corp dude pulling out his saber to keep the guy off Kyle field.
war hymn aggie
8:21a, 2/4/06
L
AG
here ya go.

Aggie
9:34a, 2/4/06
L
AG
this picture needs to die and go away forever....
Hedley_Lamarr
9:38a, 2/4/06
H
funny thats what i think should have happened to the mophead cheerleaders from SMU

[This message has been edited by Hedley_Lamarr (edited 2/4/2006 9:39a).]
oklacityag75
12:15p, 2/4/06
L
AG
I was at that game as a young kid. Was 1964 and the Foldberg Fabs crushed smooo 23-0. However, this happened right after half time where a smooo cheerleader grabbed a saber and yelled at the Aggie to come shave him...seems Peruna (?), their mascot pony had his mane shaved during the week of THE GAME and the smooo people thought it was the Aggies who did it. "OLD ARMY FIGHT" and the entire Corp...which was all students, then...rushed on the field.

All peace was restored, and Lloyd Currington continued to run wild over the ponies in the 2nd half. It was a great day at the Cotton Bowl for a young future Texas Aggie.
Arms & LEGS
12:41p, 2/4/06
H
embarrassing... i'm sure corps guys think its real cool and all, but the majority of Aggies think its embarrassing and wish it would go away.
Pelayo
12:47p, 2/4/06
L
AG
I think it's kind of a cool pic. Shows defiance and pride.
TorcanoAG2004
12:54p, 2/4/06
H
AG
it shows a criminal act
Keegan99
12:57p, 2/4/06
L
AG
Which criminal act? Battery by the male SMU cheerleaders moments before the picture was snapped?
Keegan99
12:58p, 2/4/06
L
AG
quote:

I was at that game as a young kid. Was 1964 and the Foldberg Fabs crushed smooo 23-0.


I'm pretty sure it happened in the early 80's.
ssrtex97
1:02p, 2/4/06
A
quote:
Shows defiance and pride.


More like machismo and cowardice.
HornGrad
1:03p, 2/4/06
V
Reminds me of Neidermyer from Animal House
Keegan99
1:06p, 2/4/06
L
AG
quote:

More like machismo and cowardice.



Defending one's self after being assaulted and outnumbered is machismo and cowardice?
TorcanoAG2004
1:08p, 2/4/06
H
AG
self defense? he's got a sword - that's assault with a deadly weapon
Keegan99
1:10p, 2/4/06
L
AG
A sword with a dull blade is deadly?! You couldn't carve up a Thanksgiving Turkey with that thing.

Secondly, yes, it was self defense. The only actual contact that took place was the male SMU cheerleaders pushing Hood to the ground prior to the saber being drawn.

I have a concealed carry license. If a couple of people conspire to assault me and push me to the ground, I'll draw my weapon to deter them from continuing their attack. And guess what? That's not a crime.

[This message has been edited by Keegan99 (edited 2/4/2006 1:12p).]
ssrtex97
1:14p, 2/4/06
A
Yep, I believe drawing a sword on an unarmed person is a cowardly act and displays an exaggerated sense of toughness, i.e., machismo. Silly me.
TorcanoAG2004
1:15p, 2/4/06
H
AG
i have no idea how sharp the blade is - i did not see the incident, i am only looking at the picture

you can only use that force which is reasonable to defend yourself, if someone "pushes you to the ground" it is tough to argue that it is reasonable to draw a sword on them - of course, you can make that argument, but under most circumstances i cannot see how a bunch of cheerleaders on a football field can make someone armed with a saber fear death or serious bodily injury

Keegan, you are one of the most intelligent posters on this board - it shocks me that you would defend this act
Keegan99
1:21p, 2/4/06
L
AG
I will always defend someone's right to defend themself.

If a victim is outnumbered, has been attacked, and believes drawing a weapon will stop continued attacks by their assailants, then the victim has every right to brandish that weapon.

[This message has been edited by Keegan99 (edited 2/4/2006 1:22p).]
Arms & LEGS
1:22p, 2/4/06
H
stupid incident from a stupid corps guy... this wasn't the only time the corps embarrassed our university due to some dumb incident at Kyle.
TorcanoAG2004
1:24p, 2/4/06
H
AG
i agree, but that belief has to be reasonable - drawing a saber is only reasonable when you are facing death or serious bodily injury - if you think that is what the cadet was facing, then defend away - however, that does not seem likely at all
ssrtex97
1:25p, 2/4/06
A
...especially if they are Aggies, right Keegan?
Keegan99
1:26p, 2/4/06
L
AG
quote:
Yep, I believe drawing a sword on an unarmed person is a cowardly act and displays an exaggerated sense of toughness, i.e., machismo. Silly me.


If I'm attacked by two men larger and stronger than me, I shouldn't draw my firearm (or any other weapon) in an effort to defend myself? Rather, I should passively provide them the opportunity to continue their assault?
ssrtex97
1:27p, 2/4/06
A
If you're at a football game you shouldn't have a weapon to begin with.
Keegan99
1:28p, 2/4/06
L
AG
quote:
i agree, but that belief has to be reasonable - drawing a saber is only reasonable when you are facing death or serious bodily injury


If you don't believe one punch to the face can inflict serious bodily injury, then you should have a conversation with a few ER docs.
Arms & LEGS
1:29p, 2/4/06
H
Keegan... I think you are a good poster and bring a lot to this board, but you look foolish here.

TorcanoAG2004
1:30p, 2/4/06
H
AG
it depends on how you are attacked - if you are merely shoved to the ground, then drawing a deadly weapon is not reasonable - if they are continuing their assault, and you can reasonably fear death or serious bodily injury, then you can use deadly force

Keegan, i think you need to have a conversation with the Texas Penal Code - cause you seem to think that if someone punches you, it is okay to blow them away

[This message has been edited by TorcanoAG2004 (edited 2/4/2006 1:31p).]
Keegan99
1:31p, 2/4/06
L
AG
quote:
If you're at a football game you shouldn't have a weapon to begin with.


And I'll again note that a dull saber isn't much of a weapon. It's actual capacity to inflict damage was minimal.

A walking cane would be equally dangerous, if not moreso.
ssrtex97
1:34p, 2/4/06
A
Whatever Keegan. I get the sense that you'd likely view the situation more objectively if the guy wasn't an Aggie. However, you are entitled to your opinion no matter how strongly I disagree with it.
Keegan99
1:35p, 2/4/06
L
AG
quote:
it depends on how you are attacked - if you are merely shoved to the ground, then drawing a deadly weapon is not reasonable - if they are continuing their assault, and you can reasonably fear death or serious bodily injury, then you can use deadly force


After an individual has already demonstrated his willingness to commit assault, allowing them time to escalate their attack and continue their assault is not reasonable.

If they attack again, you almost certainly won't have time and opportunity to draw a weapon in an act of self defense.

Let's say two men push you to the ground. You have an opportunity to defend yourself, but decline, citing your reaoning above. One of the men then grabs you from behind while the other pummels you. You are now incapacitated and unable to defend yourself.

Smart decision.
FAST FRED
1:36p, 2/4/06
L
AG
The saber incident happened at Kyle Field.

The four male SMU cheerleaders were spelling out those three letters, one at a time, using the lengths of their bodies.

They had been told to stay off the field, but they kept turning flips and spelling out SMU, gradually leaving the sidelines and moving onto the field and into the end zone.

One of our yell leaders kept telling them to stay off the field, but he was ignored.

Finally an OD came out to where the male SMU cheerleaders were "body spelling" on the field and motioned for them to get back to the sideline.

He and one cheerleader were face to face arguing about it when another cheerleader snuck up and got on his hands and knees right behind the OD.

The first cheerleader then quickly pushed the OD backwards so that he fell to the ground over the cheerleader who was on all fours behind him.

The SMU cheerleaders and fans thought this was very cool and they celebrated the belittlement of this Aggie among themselves

It really pissed the OD off and he began to chase the cheerleader he had been pushed over with closed fists, ready to throw a punch.

That cheerleader kept moving away and when several other SMU cheerleaders came up to get between the OD and the cheerleader being chased, the OD drew his saber.

He never swung it or thrust with it, but he did brandish it threateningly.

Other ODs and our yell leaders came up and intervened.

The OD should never have drawn his saber, but he was not unprovoked.

And he was tag teamed by two SMU cheerleaders when he was pushed down.

It was a somewhat like the incident last football season, when the teasip band harassed and verbally abused an Aggie doing his duty, scooping up horse poop.

The cheerleaders from SMU and later tu were trying to have fun at the expense of two Aggies who were on the job and those visiting students provoked the incidents.

The buttons they pushed sent each of those Aggies past their limit of self control and, in reaction, they each did something they should never have done.

Should ODs and poop scoopers be forwarned to not over react to abuse?

Yes.

Should pooper scoopers throw poop?

No.

Should ODs even carry potential weapons on the sidelines.

In my opinion, no.

Should opposing team cheerleaders be allowed on Kyle Field.

That doesn't bother me much either way, but students with ceremonial sabers shouldn't be charged with enforcement, if the opposing cheerleaders are supposed to keep off the field.

That's for stadium officials and/or adult representatives from both schools to anticipate, decide, observe, control and enforce.

The scooper and the OD were wrong and deserving of punishment.

But they were both provoked and supervision was lacking from authorities and parties on both school's sides.

The scooper shouldn't have thrown the poop and the OD shouldn't have drawn his saber, but they and the tu band and the SMU cheerleaders all were at fault and out of control.

Self control is to be hoped for, but authoritative oversight and adult intervening responsibility was lacking on both sides.



Gig 'em, FAST FRED '65.

Before the world wide web, village idiots usually stayed in their own village.

[This message has been edited by FAST FRED (edited 2/4/2006 8:31p).]
ssrtex97
1:37p, 2/4/06
A
You sound like that guy from Napoleon Dynamite.

Fu-git-about-it!
Keegan99
1:37p, 2/4/06
L
AG
quote:
Keegan, i think you need to have a conversation with the Texas Penal Code - cause you seem to think that if someone punches you, it is okay to blow them away


The determination of the risk of serious bodily injury is entirely dependent on the judgment of the victim. If the victim believes such a risk exists, then they are entitled to defend themself.
TorcanoAG2004
1:39p, 2/4/06
H
AG
but that belief has to be reasonable - it is not merely a subjective test - otherwise everyone would claim self defense because they were afraid, and you would let them all go
Keegan99
1:39p, 2/4/06
L
AG
FAST FRED - if that account is accurate, and Hood did not draw his saber immediately after being pushed, then he was clearly in the wrong.

My understanding of the events were more immediate.
Keegan99
1:42p, 2/4/06
L
AG
quote:
but that belief has to be reasonable - it is not merely a subjective test - otherwise everyone would claim self defense because they were afraid, and you would let them all go



Yes, it's ultimately a jury question (or DA question). If an unarmed woman threatened me and I drew and fired, I'd probably be convicted since I'd be unable to justify on the stand (or in questioning by law enforcement) my belief that a risk of serious bodily injury existed. If three men threatened me and one took a swing, the situation would be much different.
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