Every program is like that.Each programs fans think their team is great.Arkansas fans are no exception,they think the hogs are the greatest team ever.Some of our fans will not face the truth.Our team is average and thats about all.Our defence sucks.There are only 2 or 3 teams in the SEC that are great teams most of the time and everyone knows who they are.So all we can do is cheer for or teams and face reality.

I would just like to sadly point out that in our "glory years" from 1984-1994 as was posted earlier we were 3-5 in bowl games with wins over Notre Dame, BYU, and Auburn and losses to Ohio St, Pittsburgh, Florida St, and Notre Dame twice. That is not exactly dominant and a major reason why we never finished in the top 5.

Wow. This thread contains more rational ag fans than I have ever seen. It takes rational fans like this as well as non-delusional administrators (not Lipton) to change thing for the ags.

geez

totally agree.

I will.

What's frustrating is that A&M has all the ingredients for a great program.

1) Money
2) Facilities
3) Passionate Fan base

Im willing to bet that among the 100 or so division 1 teams, with amount of money proportionately compared to the results on the field, A&M is the worst investment in college football.

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I don't get it when people say "there is no reason why we can't be a national power". Obviously there has been a reason that we never have been.

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I have a theory as to what the reason is but it was received so violently the last time I brought it up that I will forever remain silent.

Ansel, I am intrigued. What was your theory that was so violently protested previously that you have taken a vow of silence?

You might as well say it again, because no theory is worse than 3 losses while having a double-digit halftime lead in all 3 games.

We've had a bad showing in the modern media era.

I've met athletes at TAMU from out of state who had never even heard of TAMU until they started looking for places to take their talents. However, they had heard of texas university. We need to gain positive national attention in football so so bad.

-didn't read this whole thread I just wanted to say these words

Let's hear it Ansel. Agree; no theory can be worse than 3 2nd half losses.....

Great fan base.

These days, there are no "untouchable" programs; everyone is capable of hitting the skids. In my view, the best we can hope for is to capture enough magic for one season and emerge as champs. I am not saying we could not be better--I think we are classic underachievers--but we are wise to face up to the reality of our past.

But, take heart, Ags! The Chicago Cubs have suffered miserably for decades, but their tradition and fanbase makes them special. Count yourself blessed that you are a part of the bigger picture, and that is something that can never be measured by trophies alone.

http://www.collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/research/Lemieux.pdf

If you click on the link above you find data you find a table listing all of the current FBS teams ranked from first to last in terms of rankings in the AP from 1936 to roughly 2007. I think it is as good of a list as you will find for ranking programs in the modern age of college football.

On this list A&M comes in at #23. That is about where I would put A&M. One can quibble over a team being a spot or two higher/lower, but on balance it is a decent list.

This list takes most of the BS out of the data and puts it solidly on results over the last roughly seven decades.

If you take the top 10 teams off of this list you will find these are the teams that year in and year out have performed the best over the years. You will find the same names, in some order, on about every list of the top football programs.

The second 10 teams are some who have come on lately or have had spurts over the years where they were very good. They just have never sustained great programs over very long periods of times.

The three ten are those teams who have had a period or two where they were good, but never sustained their wins over more than a decade or two. That is where you find A&M.

I just provided this list as fodder for your use.

Boise 3 spots ahead of the Ags? Yikes!

We suck

Well this thread just makes me wanna puke. Lotta folks in here feeling sorry for each other...wah, wah, wah.

Look Tennessee has wallowed in mediocrity for most of my life, the Johnny Majors years had some exciting moments but most often it was fraught with disappointment, losses that hurt for months.

It was an odd sequence of events that lead to Phil Fulmer taking over the reigns and he was a real shot in the arm for us. He was a real go getter who could recruit like crazy and that led us to a BCS championship. Then he got complacent or lazy or whatever and here we are again. My point is you may find yourself with 8-10 win seasons for a long time. It takes a little time for the right things to come together to get over that hump. Or you may get lucky like a Georgia Tech. who somehow can come out of nowhere an win an MNC, but not likely.

I think there are certain things you have to do to ensure your program stays near the top over a sustained period of time.

1) You have to invest in your facilities. My understanding is that A&M had not done this until recently. You have to invest continuously over time. This is big for recruiting as it shows your university is committed to providing the best for it's football program.

2) You have to hire top coaching talent. I not saying your aren't doing that, I am just sayin...

3) Branding is important and this is where I think your move to the SEC is good for A&M. You can finally differentiate yourself from tu like never before. No more little brother blah,blah,blah. You can stand on your own and become something more than you ever could with tu at your side.

One more thing that TN does differently than most is we spend a lot of money on recruiting. We have to recruit nationally becuase we don't have enough in-state talent to sustain our program. We have the largest recruiting budget in the SEC and probably the one of the largest in the country. A&M doesn't have to do that but you might want to look at what your neighbors are spending and make sure you are at least on par.

So you Ags need to suck it up and get to work cuz feeling sorry for yourselves isn't gonna cut it. No team in the SEC is gonna feel sorry for you if you lose, trust me.

We are football irrelevant.....and we're going to a harder conference....

Something has to change....or we will be worse..

I truly think that the failure of Fran was a 10 plus year blow to this program. Most, including me, thought that was "the hire" - bold, aggressive, with little chance of failure.

It was so very opposite. And then cue Sherm- a conservative hire. Won't hurt ya, but won't blow the doors off.

The SEC move automatically gives Sherm a couple of years of grace. I don't think he is the answer.....

I am for the SEC move for one simple reason. Its now time to put up or shut up and go home. Fans will have a lot harder time standing behind the coach and making excuses when we are losing every game. Thus, we will either become a great football team or we will continue to lose and expose ourselves as the crappy team we are. If we lose then we are still at where we are today so whats the big deal??

The unfortunate NCAA violation era is overlapped with "the great years" AND perhaps more importantly, actually was late in hiring progressive, forward thinking AD--stayed in the 'good ole boy' lane too long and stagnated.No building, just resting.

tired of these stupid @)#(*$ing threads, I'm NOT LOOKING TO BE A "PROGRAM" I WANT TO WIN JUST ONE @()#*$^)*(@&#$ING MNC IN OUR LIFETIME!!!! ONE YEAR, THAT"S ALL WE"RE F@#($*&ING ASKING FOR, I DON"T GIVE A CHIT ABOUT SUSTAINED 10+ win seasons!!! GIVE US ONE F@#$)*&ING modern era NC, THEN TALK ABOUT BEING A "PROGRAM" WITH "history" and all that bull chit.


and you're an idiot if you think that Nick Saban couldn't win a MNC here, that's the difference between good/great/crappy "programs", they have/had great coaches with both recruiting and coaching

You guys are a bunch of whiny bi#(@*$&es, woah is me, we can't win, we won't win, stop f@#(*$&ing following the program if you're just going to give up

you wanna fix the situation, stop hiring chitty coaches

PS WTF ever said we're a great program, OP is a dumbass, no one said we're a great program, we just hate losing, expect better product for the money and support, and we keep hiring and extending chitty coaches, WTF SHOULDN'T EXPECT US TO BEAT A TEAM WHEN LEADING BY DOUBLE @#(*&$ING DIGITS AT HALF TIME, THE NERVE OF YOU PEOPLE, WE'RE A CHITTY PROGRAM, OF COURSE WE SHOULD LOSE TO BETTER "PROGRAMS"

[This message has been edited by FTAggies (edited 11/1/2011 9:30p).]

[This message has been edited by FTAggies (edited 11/1/2011 9:39p).]

^

what he said

Texas A&M is not one of the premier programs in the country, but there is no reason it can't become one. Wisconsin did it. Oregon did it. Florida did it. Furthermore, it seems to me the Aggies have the leg-up from a resources, location, and support perspective versus those program when they were at this stage (mired in mediocrity). What it will take is a transformative coach. Whether Mike Sherman is that guy or not I don't know (I have a hunch though...), but it can and will happen.

The time is now.

(sorry, couldn't resist)

It's past time. We've endured a series of dismal 50% head coaching records over a long period of time. That's not how you build a reputation for winning consistently, or recruiting top talent, and if you haven't noticed, the top coaches don't move to schools that don't have records for winning consistently, regardless of the facilities or the loyal fan base.

We have a 55.5% winning record in D1 Football and a 13-19 record in bowl games. Worse, we have only a 46.6% winning record against SEC teams, where we are headed.

We have to step up our game, and we can't wait forever to do it. Why not now? I think Ansel knows, and has said in his sage way, that our path to greatness has been impeded not by the fans or the players but by a consistent lack of support from administration bureaucrats.

All you Shermshine pumpers just keep on pumping. But come back after the the game in Norman, on national TV and tell us we have the coaching staff we need to lead us to greatness.

We're all going to have to reevaluate how much longer we can wait after the game Saturday.

[This message has been edited by Katyfan (edited 11/1/2011 11:20p).]

[This message has been edited by Katyfan (edited 11/1/2011 11:22p).]

There is no spoon.

I am pessimistic about our chances in the SEC next season. If we get destroyed and have something like a 4-8 record, recruits will run away from us in droves.

Come on Ansel. Give the whole thing!

I find it interesting that everyone blames the coaches, being a coach, I kind of look at it a couple of different ways, you can prepare players, you can put together great game plans but ultimately you turn it over to them to get the job done. Coaches don't cause fumbles or turnovers, no coach coaches players to do those things. No coaching staff has magical drills that no other coaching staff has, it's pretty much the same. The difference is attitude and ability. In College ball, those two things make the difference over anything else. The players choose their attitude and they are recruited for their ability. It's up to them to perform. Now, coaches can control things like intensity and tempo in practice, which guys like Saban are great at, but even then the players have to buy in.

As a coach, how do you explain leading every game at halftime by 2+ scores, yet losing 3 of those and nearly a fourth in the second half?

This is my opinion. It will be long. Trying to be honest. Don't lynch me

A&M will never be a top program unless they get better recruits. I know people around here use the "coach em up" and Sherman is a "better talent developer" and Texas didn't do so well with their 5 stars, etc. Yes, some of those arguments have merit. However, look at the top 10 programs in the country, and all recruit and get 5 stars and 4 stars mostly. A&M does not. They get a 5 star occasionally, but mostly 4 and 3 stars. Now recruiting is a crap shoot, I get that. There will be busts, whether it be 3 or 5 stars. And some 3 stars will be awesome. However, if you have more 4 and 5 stars, and some of them pan out, it's a higher ceiling.

Now, why does A&M not get the recruits? Many factors. Some can't be changed, and some can.

1. Winning tradition.
Now, I know it's hard to swallow, but A&M doesn't have a winning tradition. Yes, you did have a good 10 years in the 80s/90s, but it didn't produce a National Championship, and kids these days weren't even born yet. This can be changed with winning obviously, but that takes years and years and isn't done overnight. I'm just saying, coaches can't point to the trophy case and say hey, look at our Championships, winning tradition.

2. Culture

This is 2011, not 1943. Things have changed. People don't dream about being in the military or hanging out with a bunch of white guys with shaved heads. The yell leaders need to go. Bring in cheerleaders. There is something to be said for tradition, but the average black male does not identify with white guys in overalls. They like girls, and having fun, and partying like any normal 18 year old male. Having a black male athlete come to campus and see a bunch of white guys in overalls with shaved heads, carrying torches late at night to practice yelling is not going to win them over. I know it's hard to open your eyes to this, but it's a fact. You may think I'm lying, but if you polled recruits, I bet I'm right.

3. College Station.

Another negative for recruiting. I know you love College Station and think it's a great fun place, but in most people's opinions, it is not. There is nothing to do there. I'm not saying it's extremely worse than some other college towns, but you are blind if you think anyone wants to hang out in College Station. I have never ONCE heard someone want to party in College Station. I have had friends schedule trips to Madison, Oxford, South Bend, Eugene, and Austin. I don't know how to fix this one

4. I think the SEC will actually help you're recruiting in the long run, but time will tell I guess.

5. Quit trying to find a coach that "gets A&M". No other program does that. They get a coach that "gets wins". Saban is famous for being a tight *****, but he gets results. Texas hired a coach that gets top recruits. He might not be a great coach, but Texas gambled on out-talenting their way into a NC and it worked, so they keep the recruiter and just pay billions to get the top coordinators every couple of years. It also might pain you to hear this but it will be hard for A&m to get a top coach right now. Urban Meyer is never ever going to happen. He left Florida. Why would he coach at A&M? If you can't see why he would never chose A&M, then I'm sorry, you don't live in reality. You need to find a young guy who wants a HC opportunity, and not someone is in line for a big time program HC job like Kirby Smart. Maybe someone like Chad Morris as HC. He's already on OC, he's not coming to A&M to be an OC.

just trying to help. I'm sure everyone here will crucify me for my non-aggie opinion, but whatever.

Moonman you're absolutely right. And there are plenty of Ags that agree with you 100%

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Maybe someone like Chad Morris as HC. He's already on OC, he's not coming to A&M to be an OC.

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I really like Chad Morris, I think he'll be a great HC in about 5 years. He's an Aggie. The only thing about Chad Morris is this. He inherited a great tradition that Briles created in Stephenville but didn't live up to expectations there. He went to Lake Travis and inherited an amazing program from Jeff Dikus(sp?) and had some amazing success. He's never really, to my knowledge, taken an average to above average program to the next level.

I hear mike leach is seeking employment...