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There is little doubt that Ike was the best guy for the job of overall commander of the war in Europe. But I never found a reference to him having been in combat, or even close to it. If you know different, let me know. Truman was an artillery officer in WWI, I believe. Nixon a supply guy in the Navy in the South Pacific in WWII.

Johnson bummed a ride on a bomber in the South Pacific, that turned back due to engine trouble. He parlayed that into a Silver Star. I suspect MacArthur figured a fake medal would buy a lot of Congressional support.

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All correct. Ike might not have shot from the front lines, but he was readily aware of the casualties and their impact, and those that served under him acknowledged this. He also took command extremely seriously and did a great job in Europe. One of the books I most enjoyed reading was the bio of Omar Bradley, and his criticisms and praises of Eisenhower really were enlightening.

Even if Eisenhower never served a day in combat there is no doubt in my mind that he would have if called. Johnson on the other hand?

<Greer & Kellerman>

They were great crime scene destroyers...I wonder if they became "sweepers" a bit later.

terata said:

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<Greer & Kellerman>

They were great crime scene destroyers...I wonder if they became "sweepers" a bit later.

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Maybe Greer shot JFK from the driver's seat.

Fonzie Scheme said:

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I've read Posner's book and Bugliosi's "Reclaiming History". For the latter, don't just get "Parkland". RH is Parkland plus Bugliosi's examining many of the prevailing theories.

The conspiracy industry (and it is definitely that) is a self-perpetuating machine. So much junk has been written about the JFK assassination that they start quoting each other, so it just goes on. I'm sure some believe the nonsense they spew but most are in it for the buck. And it all started with Mark Lane, who's nothing more than a bald-faced liar.

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I have been working on "Reclaiming History" for years. It's tough for me to get through. But it is incredibly detailed and thorough.

No. But he did scrape up bio material after the hit.

terata said:

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No. But he did scrape up bio material after the hit.

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Parts of JFK landed on the windshield, in the front seat, and on Kellerman and Greer.

Also, the average person right now knows more about crime scene procedure than those guys would know in 1963. Things like DNA profiling didn't even begin to happen until two decades after JFK was killed.

CanyonAg77 said:

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sw@n said:

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With a grain of salt....

It could have easily gone another way entirely had germany not been forced to pay reperations to france.

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There's little doubt that WWI echos today, everything from WWII to the division of the Middle East by European desires, not Arab tribes.

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I agree that WWI was inevitable, but it's interesting to think what could have happened had It been another event that set it off. What if the Central powers had won? Does Hitler still come to power? Or would a similar type rise in France or the UK and start WW2? We wouldn't be a superpower, and with Einstein, Von Braun, etc staying in Europe there wouldn't be a US flag on the moon and we wouldn't have the Bomb. But without WW2, would an atomic bomb be developed in the first place. The world would be so incredibly different had WW1 not played out the way it did.

Cstrickland05 said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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sw@n said:

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With a grain of salt....

It could have easily gone another way entirely had germany not been forced to pay reperations to france.

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There's little doubt that WWI echos today, everything from WWII to the division of the Middle East by European desires, not Arab tribes.

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I agree that WWI was inevitable, but it's interesting to think what could have happened had It been another event that set it off. What if the Central powers had won? Does Hitler still come to power? Or would a similar type rise in France or the UK and start WW2? We wouldn't be a superpower, and with Einstein, Von Braun, etc staying in Europe there wouldn't be a US flag on the moon and we wouldn't have the Bomb. But without WW2, would an atomic bomb be developed in the first place. The world would be so incredibly different had WW1 not played out the way it did.

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I've been listening to Dan Carlin's Blueprint for Armageddon podcasts and he brings up a similar point. Would the world have been better off if German had just won the whole thing quickly in September of 1914?

I agree with your statements. Nevertheless, they would have known about crime scene evidence preservation in 1963, if only in rudimentary terms. Then again, maybe other motivations took precedence.

terata said:

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I agree with your statements. Nevertheless, they would have known about crime scene evidence preservation in 1963, if only in rudimentary terms. Then again, maybe other motivations took precedence.

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Sounds good and all, but then again...



https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSeTzV0d-ucaH6m96-HaNoEl_e7cSaVtACaXrFGi2Ns8g_g3k-j



We know that just isn't true.

This is the modified plot for mark whalberg film "Shooter" ? Lmao

Mabel Choate said:

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Cstrickland05 said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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sw@n said:

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With a grain of salt....

It could have easily gone another way entirely had germany not been forced to pay reperations to france.

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There's little doubt that WWI echos today, everything from WWII to the division of the Middle East by European desires, not Arab tribes.

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I agree that WWI was inevitable, but it's interesting to think what could have happened had It been another event that set it off. What if the Central powers had won? Does Hitler still come to power? Or would a similar type rise in France or the UK and start WW2? We wouldn't be a superpower, and with Einstein, Von Braun, etc staying in Europe there wouldn't be a US flag on the moon and we wouldn't have the Bomb. But without WW2, would an atomic bomb be developed in the first place. The world would be so incredibly different had WW1 not played out the way it did.

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I've been listening to Dan Carlin's Blueprint for Armageddon podcasts and he brings up a similar point. Would the world have been better off if German had just won the whole thing quickly in September of 1914?

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I'm currently reading a book related to the JFK assassination with some emphasis being on Jack Ruby. It's about Dorothy Kilgallen, a media person back from the late 30s to her suspicions death in 1965. She was on radio and tv show, What's My Line as well as a court reporter. Had a syndicated column, pretty big deal. Knew JFK.

She was gathering a lot of evidence on the assassination even had an interview with Ruby. She was found very unexpectedly dead one day and although suicide or accidental OD was possible, it was very improbable, they lay out why in the book. Also this huge binder of information she had had for years disappeared and was never seen again.

Here's the website to a lot of the backstory information. I'm about 20 chapters in and it's been very fascinating. Even her career itself was very fascinating.The inferences that she was killed because she was getting close to the truth about it. Of course we'll never know.

https://www.thereporterwhoknewtoomuch.com/

Guitarsoup said:

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Her body had about double the legal driving level of alcohol and a pretty good quantity of barbiturates. Accidental overdose is far more likely than anything else considering she was in the apartment with both her husband and her 11yo son.

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Not necessarily. There were prescriptions for one drug, not the other, nor was she ever know to take it. now she could've gotten them other ways, but it was suspicious. Also, the ME off the record stated he thought it was murder. There are a lot of other things coming out in the book, so the face value part isn't really.

All you have to remember about things back then is that the guy that was shot several times with his own gun, in very odd circumstances, was ruled to have killed himself. Can't remember the exact name, on the tip of my tongue, but he was the man giving LBJ's Ag racket a hard time, he even turned down a big bribe. Billie Sol Estes is thought to have carried out his suicide.

And that death stood as a suicide for about 40 years or so. Manipulations and controlling the press were much easier in those times. Pols also had a lot more hidden hammering power.

His name was Henry Marshall I believe. Killed by LBJ's henchman Mac Wallace at his ranch outside of Franklin Texas.

Sol Estes wasn't the hitman to my knowledge...it was typically Mac Wallace and the method was most commonly carbon monoxide poisoning, although he shot Marshall 5 times because he heard someone drive up.

Correct, and it was ruled a suicide. Estes had some kind of involvement, IIRC. Thanks for straightening the story out.

Estes later listed 8 people who he claimed were ordered killed by LBJ. The first was an Austin golf pro in the 50's(who Mac Wallace received a 5 year commuted sentence for killing) and the last was John F Kennedy.

I was wondering when Mac would show up here.

Mac and I shared my great great grandfather, and he was from my hometown. He was thought to be a part of several hits for LBJ - including Marshall. The theory was that LBJ got him out of the murder of the Austin golf pro, and owned him after that. He also had connections to LBJ's sister.

Coincidently, he also died under strange circumstances (single vehicle car wreck when visiting his daughter).

What links him to JFK, more than anything, was that his fingerprint was believed to be found in the school book depository. So there are some that claim he did it.

There is a cool book about him called "Faustinian Bargains" that goes through his life and the known evidence of his involvement with LBJ. It also details a lot of LBJs shenanigans in Texas and Federal politics. Bottom line (according to the book) - LBJ was basically a mobster.

56 years ago today

November 22 has always been a surreal day for me. Today especially so because JFK was assassinated on a Friday.

I was a first grader at Sandy Hook Elementary school (kind of ironic given the events of 12/14/12) on the day JFK was killed. From what I recall, nothing seemed out of the ordinary, until early afternoon, after lunch period. I could tell something was wrong as my first grade teacher (Mrs. Hamilton) had been crying, yet nothing was said to the students. It wasn't until a couple of hours later, when we were lined up to get on the bus, that we heard the news. One of the things I remember about Sandy Hook Elementary...there was a placard as you walked into the cafeteria which said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, Ask what you can do for your country." I suspect it was placed there after his assassination.

It was a terrible weekend. My family loved Kennedy...probably because he was from New England, a Catholic, and a Democrat. I think my Mom cried all weekend. I was too young to realize that presidents served four year terms. I thought Kennedy was going to be our president for my entire life. I don't know why, but LBJ just didn't seem to be someone I thought of as president. That weekend, our black and white TV was on the moment we woke till the moment we went to bed. In a way, the coverage was both cathartic and insufferable.

To this day, I know the exact place where I was sitting on that Sunday when Oswald was murdered on live TV. I wish I could go to that house on Toddy Hill Road where I grew up.

To add to the tragedy, my maternal grandfather died of a heart attack five days after Kennedy's assassination. My paternal grandfather also died of a heart attack a month later. Needless to say, it was a bit too much death for one that young.

Years later, I pondered the irony that I lived in Dallas/Ft. Worth, and was able to visit Dealy Plaza and the Sixth Floor Museum. Back in the 80's, I was obsessed, and read several books on the assassination. I've let it go, but to this day I don't think Oswald acted alone...but I'll leave that to another discussion.

I had just turned 5 a months before the assassination. Mostly I remember watching the funeral procession on TV. I think it was a while later before I really understood what had happened.

gigemhilo said:

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I was wondering when Mac would show up here.

Mac and I shared my great great grandfather, and he was from my hometown. He was thought to be a part of several hits for LBJ - including Marshall. The theory was that LBJ got him out of the murder of the Austin golf pro, and owned him after that. He also had connections to LBJ's sister.

Coincidently, he also died under strange circumstances (single vehicle car wreck when visiting his daughter).

What links him to JFK, more than anything, was that his fingerprint was believed to be found in the school book depository. So there are some that claim he did it.

There is a cool book about him called "Faustinian Bargains" that goes through his life and the known evidence of his involvement with LBJ. It also details a lot of LBJs shenanigans in Texas and Federal politics. Bottom line (according to the book) - LBJ was basically a mobster.

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That book also destroys the theory that Mac Wallace was involved in any way with the death of JFK.

No fingerprint expert ever found Mac Wallace's fingerprint in the TBD. It was something someone said once that was later repeated without ever fact checking.

The theory that secrets can't be kept is understandable but just proven false far too often to hold up.

When people have reasons to keep secrets they will. Period.

Money

Threats

Whatever.

It has happened countless times.

It is absurd to think jfk happened just from Oswald the lone nut.

Here, let me add another log to the fire, courtesy of today's The Daily Beast ...

It was the Mob (or so The Irishman implies)

did not a lot of potential witnesses show up dead before they could testify before the Warren commission?

Ah cool a 10000 word rant about the inaccuracies of a movie nobody here considers historically accurate.