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How did HCAD get my sales information?

12,453 Views | 40 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by Diggity
Sazerac
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9:40a, 5/12/16
AG
I purchase a house last summer that never went on MLS.
I obviously never responded to their request for details on the sale, but in reviewing the iSettle evidence they provide they have my date of sale and exact price documented.

Besides the seller providing this information, how else could they have gotten it?
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Martin Q. Blank
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9:45a, 5/12/16
http://www.cclerk.hctx.net

quote:

Services Provided by the Harris County Clerk's Office

  • Records documents related to real property transactions
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Marauder Blue 6
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9:58a, 5/12/16
AG
The title company has to report the sale.
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jja79
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In reply to Marauder Blue 6 • 12:20p, 5/12/16
AG
This is a non-disclosure state. The title company records the deed and deed of trust. They don't report details of the sale.
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Sazerac
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12:34p, 5/12/16
AG
Any idea how they did? Do they even send the letter to the seller of the house? I don't recall getting one for the house I sold...
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AgLA06
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In reply to Sazerac • 12:47p, 5/12/16
AG
quote:

Besides the seller providing this information, how else could they have gotten it?


You already know how. They send the same letter to the buyer and seller in hopes one is dumb enough to self report.
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jja79
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12:47p, 5/12/16
AG
If I were guessing and that's all I'm doing the Realtor may have put it in MLS after the fact to get credit for it.
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12:51p, 5/12/16
AgLA06
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In reply to jja79 • 1:18p, 5/12/16
AG
quote:
If I were guessing and that's all I'm doing the Realtor may have put it in MLS after the fact to get credit for it.


Credit for what?
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Sazerac
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1:23p, 5/12/16
AG
I know my realtor did not.
I doubt the seller did, she is a realtor herself...but maybe she did.
I did not finance 80%
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JJxvi
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1:24p, 5/12/16
AG
MLS.
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JJxvi
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1:30p, 5/12/16
AG
Their evidence will probably have a V which indicates that the source is from a vendor who provides them sales information (ie info that comes from MLS when you're talking about residential). It also likely has an X indicating it is not confirmed. Any sales you see with Q and then V are sourced from a Questionaire and are considered Verified by the CAD
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jja79
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In reply to AgLA06 • 1:31p, 5/12/16
AG
Company awards, recognition, etc. When you look a Realtor up on har.com it lists transactions and the more the better.

As I said I was just guessing.
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Sazerac
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1:33p, 5/12/16
AG
I have codes V and X

property was never listed on MLS...so either my realtor or the seller added it to MLS?
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JJxvi
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1:34p, 5/12/16
AG
Almost every listing gets the sales price, closing date and other info (concessions, etc) entered into it when the listing is closed out by the listing agent. They do this because MLS is a resource for them to help future clients know what price to list at based on other past sales info, it stores the sales information from all other agents for them to look at. If nobody did that then they wouldn't know what prices anything was selling for except their own listings.
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JJxvi
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In reply to Sazerac • 1:36p, 5/12/16
AG
quote:
I have codes V and X

property was never listed on MLS...so either my realtor or the seller added it to MLS?
It was never listed on MLS? How did you buy it? V and X means that someone who HCAD buys sales info from has your sales information. I'd be surprised if it wasnt sourced from MLS.
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26.2
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1:38p, 5/12/16
Title co. sold you out.
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Sazerac
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1:39p, 5/12/16
AG
it was never listed, never on the market. never had a for sale sign. seller was a realtor and was planning on getting it ready a few months later.
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GoAgs92
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1:57p, 5/12/16
AG
$10 plus other valuable consideration

is all they should have seen.

time to sue.
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Sazerac
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2:11p, 5/12/16
AG
my realtor replied with "Title company. Their records don't coincide, but they do have access."
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26.2
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2:18p, 5/12/16
Also, the title co. does not HAVE to give HCAD your pricing. But they may get paid to do so.

The more you know.
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Samuel E. Cronkowitz
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2:56p, 5/12/16
AG
Look your address up on homesnap/redfin/etc. If it's there, it's on MLS. If it's on MLS, HCAD has it.
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Al Bula
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8:04p, 5/12/16
AG
This guy was lurking at the title co

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Lonestar_Ag09
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2:12p, 5/13/16
AG
could someone explain the issue here? I am assuming that knowing the sale price allows them to adjust the value for taxes?
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Satellite of Love
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In reply to Sazerac • 3:23p, 5/13/16
quote:
Any idea how they did? Do they even send the letter to the seller of the house? I don't recall getting one for the house I sold...

You get one for the house you sold. I got one for mine and totally told them what the developer paid for my house!
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Cromagnum
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In reply to Lonestar_Ag09 • 5:31p, 5/13/16
AG
quote:
could someone explain the issue here? I am assuming that knowing the sale price allows them to adjust the value for taxes?


Taxing authority can only appraise your house for what they can see outside and comps they use. They have no clue how baller the inside may be, but if they do they will jack their appraisal up to meet closing cost.
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Cru
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8:45p, 5/14/16
S
I know for fact hcad has agreements with title companies. Stuart was one 2 years ago.

File an open records request as the owner of the property.
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ekonoag
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12:26p, 5/26/16
AG
Just filed FOIA request with HCAD. They obtained my sales transaction data from some "vendor" but didn't provide any details or documentation. I want to see the any/all correspondence with the "vendor" (apparently my title company?). Took about 5 minutes to copy a form online, customize for my request, and email to openrecords@hcad.org.
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MAS444
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1:17p, 5/26/16
AG
If it really is the title company (and I have no reason to believe it isn't), that's absolute BS. Keep us updated!
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Stat Monitor Repairman
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In reply to ekonoag • 3:19p, 5/26/16
I've had a bit of experience with FOIA and Texas Open Records over the years.

I recommend sending another request for the contract between HCAD and their "vendor."

Use that as a starting point. You are on the right track with any and all correspondence but it might get bogged down for various reasons. The more specific you can be the better. Don't make it easy for them to feign confusion or object that the request is overbroad.

I'd get a kick out of it if they refused or redacted the contract for "privacy" reasons.

This is interesting. Someone is buying and selling information that they don't own. Interested to see where this goes.
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ekonoag
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4:05p, 6/1/16
AG
Just a quick update. I sent my FOIA request to HCAD on 5/26/2016. I received an automated response on 5/27/2016. I'm still in the 10-day response window so nothing is due yet.

Here is the HCAD automated response:

quote:
This is an automatic reply email, and is being sent as a courtesy to confirm that we have received your request for public information.
Your request has been assigned work order #[[REDACTED]].
Please note that requests are processed on a first come, first served basis.
If possible, we will attempt to email the media/documents responsive to your request, at no charge. However, should there be costs associated with your request due to media type, file size or requestor's email capacity; we will email you with payment and pick up or delivery instructions.
If, after 10 business days, you have not received either the media/documents responsive to your request, or notification for additional information, etc., please check your "junk/spam" email folder or feel free to reply to this email concerning the status of your request.
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ekonoag
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4:09p, 6/1/16
AG
Also, in case anyone (everyone?) else is interested in sending HCAD a similar request, here is the request I sent (formatting a little off when copying over to this forum):

quote:
Harris County Appraisal District ("HCAD")
Public Information Coordinator Kelly Sherbert
PO Box 922004
Houston, Texas 77292-2004

To Whom it May Concern:

Under the Texas Public Information Act, 6252-17a et seq., I am requesting an opportunity to inspect or obtain copies of public records that relate to the residential property located at [[ADDRESS REDACTED]] (hereafter "subject property"), including, but not limited to, any and all correspondence with third parties or "vendors" containing information or otherwise discussing the appraisal, market value, and/or sales transactions associated with the subject property between January 1, 2014 and the present. I am the owner of the subject property.

If there are any fees for searching or copying these records, please inform me if the cost will exceed $100. However, I would also like to request a waiver of all fees in that the disclosure of the requested information is in the public interest and will contribute significantly to the public's understanding of the appraisal process and the means by which the Harris County Appraisal District obtains sales transaction data. This information is not being sought for commercial purposes.

The Texas Public Information Act requires that you "promptly produce" the requested records unless, within 10 days, you have sought an Attorney General's Opinion. If you expect a significant delay in responding to this request, please contact me with information about when I might expect copies or the ability to inspect the requested records.

If you deny any or all of this request, please cite each specific exemption you feel justifies the refusal to release the information and notify me of the appeal procedures available to me under the law.
Thank you for considering my request.

Sincerely,
[[SIGNED]]
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MAS444
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4:13p, 6/1/16
AG
ekonoag:

Do you have an email? I'd like to discuss this further and possibly help out....

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Al Bula
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6:20p, 6/1/16
AG
Very interesting story. Can we get Nuno or agproducer to get this sheet on KTRK?
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ekonoag
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2:02p, 6/7/16
AG
Quick update (more detailed version posted on the HCAD 2016 thread): I just went to my informal hearing and was offered the Jubally valuation amount (about 12% less than HCAD assessed value). I accepted as it is slightly less than what we paid for the home in December 2014. Very happy to say the least.

Even though my appraisal review went well I'm still pursuing the FOIA request and will provide updates as they come around to those interested.

MAS444, I'm fairly risk averse to posting any sort of personal information on public websites, but am happy to contact you if you want to provide your contact information.
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