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looking to go into longer range shooting

29,185 Views | 82 Replies | Last: 9 yr ago by 91AggieLawyer
jobu93
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I've played arount at 300 yards, and I want to stretch out to around 1k yards.

I have the glass in mind, a Vortex 6x24 or a Razor variant of it.

The rifles I've used and I really like are the .308s I'm leaning toward bolt action, but a blackout is pretty cool too.

I'd rather stay away from a Remington, and I like the Savage mainly for the triggers and the action.

I will likely be getting a threaded barrel and I like the McMillan stocks but there's another out there (cant remember the name, darn it) that has a better stiffness and I wouldn't have to do a bedding on.


Share what you got... I've got a tornado of info in my head and don't want to frick up a purchase. there is so much out there.
powerbelly
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If I was looking to shoot that far, I would look at one of the 6.5 cartridges.
TheEyeGuy
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On the scope, just do the razor or razor 2 and don't look back. Absolutely amazing
Walter Kovacs
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what is the purpose? ringing steel? hunt?
do you reload?
budget?
are you recoil sensitive?
stock or custom gun?
traditional stock or chassis system?
wind in your area?
is barrel life or ammo cost a major factor?
are you comfortable with diy smithing?
DoubleOught-BMA
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AG
I love this topic... actually started a long-range build thread last week. In summary - went w the savage 11/111 LRH in .300 win mag and paired it w a sightron Siii 8-32x56 scope (w 20moa base). I put everything together and shot it this w/e. Freaking awesome is all I can say. I put a 2" group together at 300 yds... prob a 5" group together at 600yds and made 2 out of 3 hits on a 10" gong at 1000yds. (we ran out of time so didn't get to shoot more) All w factory Rem Core-lokt ammo (180gr). The 1,000 yd shot I made on my second attempt having been just left on 1st attempt. The savage is amazing and for the price - can't be beat. I also really liked the scope too... great buy for under $1k. Image was pretty decent/clear when cranked up to 32x. Very effective long range build for under $2500. My $.02. Have fun!
CharlieBrown17
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.308 is decent. As someone previously said I would look into the 6.5 esp 6.5 creedmoor if you don't reload.

I don't think 300 blackout would get you to a thousand.
76Ag
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No 22-250?
AggieMarine
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jobu, if you have any interest in shooting 1K yard matches you may want to look into building an F-Class F-TR rifle. 2 matches are held each month south of Houston at Bayou Rifles near Manvel. They do a 1K yrd and then alternate 600 or 300 each month.

F-class has been growing pretty fast and the F-TR class is becoming the more popular class. The rifle would need to be .308 (or .223, but I wouldn't suggest that) and there's some other specifics.

Something to think about before you spend a lot of money on something wish you'd done it different.
agfan2013
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I'll leave the glass recommendations to the pros.

As for the rifle, I went out to a customer's ranch and we did some long range shooting at targets. Three different guys had the same version of a savage rifle chambered in .338 Lapua. Completely stock with nothing custom done to any of them and all three could shoot just above .5 MOA. I think they said the rifle was around $1400 if I remember right.

My 3 shot group (first time ever shooting past 500 yards) with one their rifles was right around 6 to 8 inches at 1000 yards. Unbelievably accurate and easy to use as they had a muzzle brake that took the recoil down considerably. I will add that they hand loaded their own rounds and had some nightforce scopes to go on top of them, but the base rifle was an un modified savage.
HumbleAg04
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Use a long range round for long range shooting. You need something fast and flat. The .300 was designed for silenced subsonic work.

6.5 is a good call.
snave
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quote:
.308 is decent. As someone previously said I would look into the 6.5 esp 6.5 creedmoor if you don't reload.

I don't think 300 blackout would get you to a thousand.


What he said. I know there are some more experienced guys that can jump in with details but 300 blackout is designed for much shorter distances. The people who I know that shoot 1K+ yards all shoot 6.5s. Most of them used to shoot 308s and switched because of better ballistics and they talk about 308 breaking the speed of sound (opposite way - becoming subsonic as it drops below speed of sound) and then becoming unstable.
CharlieBrown17
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quote:
No 22-250?


I think 22-250 really shines under 600 or so. Past that and the 6.5s better BC takes over. The difference in drop may not be much, 22-250 may even be slightly better but the 6.5s will cheat wind much better. Drop is easy to dope for, reading wind is where most shooters struggle at range.
Sublette County
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quote:
they talk about 308 breaking the speed of sound (opposite way - becoming subsonic as it drops below speed of sound) and then becoming unstable.


While there are a lot of 308 loads that will go subsonic at 1000, some of the longer and heavier bullets will make it to 1000 well above the sound barrier. 185 grain Bergers are a good example.



theterk
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300blk can go to 1000yards. granted, you have to aim like 100+ inches up, and it'll be very slow. /travishaley
ShaggyAggie01
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The 308 can shoot 1000 yards, in fact most 168 grain loads will go subsonic at about 1050 to 1100 yards, but that can change with altitude, relative humidity, temp, etc.

The 6.5's are better suited for long range work, as they have better ballistic coefficients, and therefore the wind is easier to guess.

ShaggyAggie01
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For the OP, I presume you are not interested in reloading. in that case, your best bets will be a 6.5 Creedmoor, or a 308.
for entry level budgets, the Savage guns are nice, and I've heard great things about tikka. Realistically, in today's market, you should expect 1 MOA accuracy with factory ammo. I have seen that in both remington and Savage. Buy I have also owned a remington that couldn't shoot better than 1.5 moa

if you want to compete (or are just anal like me), 1 moa is not quite good enough, as the more accurate the gun, the more room for error, which is nice the further you shoot. That's how you end up with a ridiculously expensive custom rifles like mine.
jobu93
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thanks for the replies, all.

I REALLY like ringing the steel. Don't know why, but I think it's a ton more fun than paper.

I mentioned the .308 because that's what I've used and the recoil was next to nothing and I will NOT be reloading.

I want that threading so I can run a can on it that can double on the AR too.


I know I'm just seeing the tip of the iceberg on this but it's a hell of a good time even just doing the research on it.
ConstructionAg01
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quote:
300blk can go to 1000yards. granted, you have to aim like 100+ inches up, and it'll be very slow. /travishaley
It's a bit worse than that. With a 125 grain supersonic you'd have to allow for 693" of drop.


Get a Tikka CTR in .260 or find another Tikka model or Savage in 6.5 Creedmoor. They are the best values going for long range factory rifles right now. Also, those two cartridges will have match grade ammo that is readily available since you don't reload.
ShaggyAggie01
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Yeah I left that alone. 308 has 400+, 260 has 300+. 1000 yds is far.

Eta. The only 260 factory I've seen is copper creek and you're talking $50+ per 20.

Creedmoor is more like $25 per 20
SouthparkKenny
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I shoot competitively quite a lot. I shoot open class bench, stock class bench, and three position metallic silhouette. Will be glad to help you in any way I can. Just a few things to bear in mind, plinking at 300-400 yards is one thing, however once you graduate to 1000 yards and beyond, to be consistently good and competitive, your matches are won and done on the reloading bench.

Consistent ammo is the ticket to success. Powder loads down to the 10th of a grain, and bullet weight just as accurate. Brass trimmed and polished to exact dimensions. It's all very relevant, even matching poder batch numbers to ensure you get the same burn.

Equipment is the second most important thing. For optics, IMHO the March X is hands down the best there is. I use the 8x-80x. I am also a fan of Nightforce optics, neither are cheap but worth the cost to be good.

My Open Class Bench gun is a Shilen Custom, and it shoots like a laser, my preferred long caliber is .338 Lapua, to me nothing is better, especially in timed silhouette competition. You can dial in your 500 yd dope and be good 250-300 yds either side of that easily without re-figuring your dope.


This is the March X looking at 1000 meters taken with my iPhone looking thru the scope. It doesn't get mu better than this. A .25 MOA one click being .125 MOA. Very easily fine tuned. Crystal clear, and fights mirage well.

My Stock Class preference is the Savage 110BA LE, also in .338 Lapua, They come out of the box a nail driver.


AAs I said before the real match is won on the reloading bench, keying on consistency.


I'm a fan or Berger and Barnes Bullets, their tolerances are impeccable.

If you are going to buy box stock ammo, Hornady Custom Match is hard to beat. It's not cheap but it's right. And you get what you pay for. Hornady will custom load anything you want, but you still are taking something someone else has done. A lot of the real enjoyment of shooting happens on the bench.



For NATO Combat Simulation matches I use the DPMS Panther AR-10 .308, that I've tricked out with a Shilen Barrel and Geissele Hi Speed National Match Trigger set, and Magpul furniture.


.308 is a nice intermediate caliber, and works great in NATO matches where you have to shoot NATO calibers. But when you get out around a grand, it's falling off pretty quickly.

From there you just have to burn a lot of brass. Breathing and trigger squeeze is the ticket to being one target all the time. I prefer a light 1.75# trigger. Ed Shilen built me a Wimbleton rifle once that would dial down to 0.5# which is so light, if you shut the bolt to rough it will go off. It had a hydro-shock stock and weighed a ton. Strictly a bench rifle chambered in 7x300 Weatherby Magnum. Extremely flat shooter, but was rough on brass, because of all the necking down. A guy bought it custom dies and all at a match in San Angelo, he wanted it worse than I did.


If you are going to start out box stock, look into the Savage 110 tactical line, they are the best bang for your buck, and USA made, stem to stern. Savage is hard to beat. I'd recommend the .338 Lapua if you are serious about reaching out far, hard to go wrong like that.

300g Bergers OTM hand matched to 0.1g
Lapua Brass, trimmed and polished
92.5g of H1000 pushing 2795 consistently
Winchester LR mag primers
Texas 1836
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MF, lots of good info

Thx for sharing
snave
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Great post MF - tons of knowledge in just a few words. Those setups look great.

Regarding 308s, I am interested in your thoughts and what you see at competitions regarding the LWRC REPR vs the DPMS Panther? Similar quality? Major differences? Thanks
drummer0415
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mfbarnes just won this thread. Everybody else go home.
ShaggyAggie01
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While that is awesome, I am not sure the OP was looking to spend that kind of money, just based on his question.
gwellis
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Damn Barnes! That is awesome. You showed a line of guns from affordable off the shelf to extreme custom. I want one of those 110 BAs so bad. Buddy has one that we shoot to 1250 and it is a blast.

I am working on tricking up my .300 RUM its been "accurized" and I am looking to upgrade the glass so I can "dial it in". I want to shoot out to 1,000+. Been looking at a nightforce but not sure what model to get.


What scale do you use/prefer?
Gil '91
FiTxAg04
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Dayum.
SouthparkKenny
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RCBS 10-10 would be my first choice. I have it an 505 O'Haus and a RCBS digital. The reason I prefer the 10-10 is for its rapid response to trickling in powder. Also with the "rolling" tenths scale you can split grains if you want. The digital is nice for weighing cases and such, but it takes time to display when trickling and I have gone over what I wanted and had to remove a little powder and then "sneak" up to my desired weight. The 505 is a good scale but you have more "play" room on the 10-10.

Some guys don't have the patience for the old beam balances, and they spend a ton of money high end digitals and analyticals, but my bench time is not rushed and when you are fine tuning hot loads on these big guns, precision is a must, and for my biggest concern, which is accuracy at the range, repeatability and accuracy on the bench is a must. It's important not to confuse accuracy and repeatability. I have a Lyman-O'Haus M5 my dad bought 50 years ago that's still dead nuts on.

Got a buddy that has a really high end Prometheus II that he's so proud of, and don't get me wrong it's a gem, I'm just quirky with my stuff. Of course when we get to the range, proof is on the paper. Put the time in at the loading bench and send it out down the barrel!!

Gig'Em
SouthparkKenny
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quote:
Great post MF - tons of knowledge in just a few words. Those setups look great.

Regarding 308s, I am interested in your thoughts and what you see at competitions regarding the LWRC REPR vs the DPMS Panther? Similar quality? Major differences? Thanks
as far as those 308's it's more of a preference thing because they are both quality arms. I stay away from Wilson, I okay with Rock River lowers if you're on a budget. Just don't throw money at the wrong things just to sound cool. First is your comfort level, if you're not comfortable, you shoot like crap. The only real differences in the LWRC and the DPMS is mostly cosmetic, and revolves around the furniture and accessories. LWRC does have the short throw gas cylinders and they run a little cooler. Also they give up a few ounces.

But don't cut corners on triggers, specially in your Semi's in the AR configuration. Geissele is the cat's ass when it comes to triggers, that's just my opinion. The second thing is your barrel, I go to no one other than Ed Shilen when it comes to barrels. He's the Godfather. I've had Graves build me rifles, when he was still alive. He was a local guy up in Hearne. Shilen is right up north in Ennis Texas, and they still hold the standards Ed built his name on.

One thing Ed will tell you is, he can build you as nice a rifle as you can afford, but when it comes to bolt actions, if you start with an old 700, you're majority of the work is already done. The 700 was just a great base line action straight out of the box. Takes very little work to really bring them on line, with the best on the planet. Shilen's gap is in his barrels. They are just hard to beat, and he's a Texan and a Texas based company. Ed and my father were friends till the end, (my dad Vernon '42 passed away). Really like the Shilen's.
Texas 1836
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MF, what kind of dies do you use? Just standard, or did you get some higher grade dies?
SouthparkKenny
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quote:
While that is awesome, I am not sure the OP was looking to spend that kind of money, just based on his question.
And I get that, but he is also new to the sport so I was giving him some insight into what he's getting into across the board, Guns are like hotrods, they cost more the faster/better you get. Things get real when you get into the 4+ second flight time ranges.

I also mentioned the out of box Savages which you can get into cheap by long gun standards. With the Oil Prices on the fritz right now, the toys are starting to hit the market at fire sale prices from those guys that didn't plan ahead. Watch Armslist pretty close, there are deals to be had.

And as far as optics, there are Tasco's that will shoot true, but if a budget is your thing, Millet makes optics that are affordable and shoot.
ShaggyAggie01
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Don't get me wrong, I mostly agree with your post, except for 338 lapua is cost prohibitive from an ammo standpoint. Meaning that, if all he wants to do is hit steel for fun at 1000, I don't think it warrants spending that kind of dough for each trigger pull, IMO. If he wants to do it at 1400+, ok now we need to start talking about the big boys.

Without reloading, the 6.5 creedmoor or 308 will perform well enough to consistently hit a piece of steel at 1000, and will help teach fundamentals better, also.

With reloading, I would add .260 or 6.5x47 to the mix.


jobu93
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MF, thanks for the post. You've got some great looking rigs.
SouthparkKenny
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quote:
Don't get me wrong, I mostly agree with your post, except for 338 lapua is cost prohibitive from an ammo standpoint. Meaning that, if all he wants to do is hit steel for fun at 1000, I don't think it warrants spending that kind of dough for each trigger pull, IMO. If he wants to do it at 1400+, ok now we need to start talking about the big boys.

Without reloading, the 6.5 creedmoor or 308 will perform well enough to consistently hit a piece of steel at 1000, and will help teach fundamentals better, also.

With reloading, I would add .260 or 6.5x47 to the mix.



Totally agree, 338 isn't for the meek hearted or the slim budgets. And I agree if you're just plinking to plink, stick with the NATO rounds, you can buy them buy the ammo cans cheap, and have at it.

But my followup was mainly aimed at the framework, and to me, out of the box shooters, Savage is hard to beat, hell I have an old Ted Williams Rem 700 BDL I bought for $120 at the Sears in Townshire Mall on Texas Ave when it first opened up decades ago that is still a tack driver for an old wore out 7 Mag, that has had a truckload literally shot thru it.

My latest affliction is my .458 SOCOM I built in an AR Rock River Frame that I have been blistering hogs with. Nothing nice about it. But it is a true, "One round, puts them down" kinda piece.



It kills in the front and wounds the behind...
RockinU
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It's kinda been addressed, but I'm wondering why OP wants to stay away from Remington? As has been said lots and lots of high end customs are built off 700s, and 700 clones, which kind of attests to the quality. I get that in bang for the buck, out of the box accuracy Savage is where it's at, but why not buy a 700, and have a starting point with more potential for down the road improvements? The savage triggers are nice, but you can drop a Timney 510 in for $140.

Nothing against Savage at all. At their price point it's hard to beat them, especially as a hunter, but if you really want to think about getting into long range shooting, I wouldn't dismiss Remington out of hand, they are used so much for a reason, and they are also the easiest model out there to find aftermarket upgrade parts for. Just a thought....
jpistolero02
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Here is my favorite rig to plink at distance. It's an Accuracy International AE MKIII chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor. It's not even their top of the line rifle and it shoots as good or better than my custom rifles. I find it much easier to shoot than the .308 I got rid of. Much less wind drift than the .308 and you can get quality store bought ammo. A few pics to give you some idea. I am by far a lessor shooter than previous posters.



5@100 factory Hornady 140 A-Max


3@600 130 Berger handloads
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