Wireless router- when do they need replacing?

6,575 Views | 46 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by tfunk02
BoerneGator
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AG
Using a Linksys WRT54GS. Maybe ten (?) years old. Have been experiencing wi-Fi problems for a while now, like fading/weak signal. I've concluded that perhaps the router is the culprit. How does one troubleshoot a router? Tia

Edit to add I like to stream Aggie baseball via chrome cast, but unlike last season, this year I can't get HD quality on my TV, and the signal itself will fade in and out.
SeattleAgJr
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If your router is that old, it may not have either 8.02.11g or n.

May as well upgrade to one that has gigabit as well.
BoerneGator
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AG
Thanks. Figured I've been "left behind" as it's the only router I've ever had. It worked great last baseball season tho.
BoerneGator
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AG
quote:
If your router is that old, it may not have either 8.02.11g or n.

May as well upgrade to one that has gigabit as well.
Btw, what is 8.02.11g or n?
bigtruckguy3500
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In my limited experience, when you start noticing your signal dropping out, or you have to periodically restart your router to get it to work, it's time to replace it. The only real way to tell if it's your router is to either go into the settings and check the router log, or to replace it with a new router and see if that makes a difference. the router log might not log every problem though.

If you're sure your wifi is giving you problems, and not the internet connection itself, then just replace the router. If not, then plug directly into your modem and see if you can recreate the slow speeds and stuff, as it could be your modem.
SeattleAgJr
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quote:
quote:
If your router is that old, it may not have either 8.02.11g or n.

May as well upgrade to one that has gigabit as well.
Btw, what is 8.02.11g or n?
They are wireless "internet" standards.
Each one is XX times faster (more bandwidth) that the prior one.

802.11b - 10-11 Mbps
802.11g - 54 Mbps
802.11n - 600Mbps
802.11a (AC) - 3.2Gbps
bigtruckguy3500
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quote:
quote:
quote:
If your router is that old, it may not have either 8.02.11g or n.

May as well upgrade to one that has gigabit as well.
Btw, what is 8.02.11g or n?
They are wireless "internet" standards.
Each one is XX times faster (more bandwidth) that the prior one.

802.11b - 10-11 Mbps
802.11g - 54 Mbps
802.11n - 600Mbps
802.11a (AC) - 3.2Gbps
For the most part, since our internet speeds are nowhere near 600Mbps, it won't make your internet speed faster. But if you're transferring files between computers it will be faster, or if you have some sort of a home media server, it'll be faster and able to handle lots of people accessing data over your network at the same time.
SeattleAgJr
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As to your question, yes it is time to upgrade. If you can wait, there should be some good sales around Memorial Day.
BoerneGator
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AG
Thanks fellas. You're making me dizzy. Suggestions on a replacement and where to look for it? WalMart is close, while Best Buy is 12 miles.
SeattleAgJr
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quote:
Thanks fellas. You're making me dizzy. Suggestions on a replacement and where to look for it? WalMart is close, while Best Buy is 12 miles.
I would honestly suggest Newegg or even Amazon.

As for router to get... it depends. How many wired ports do you need.
What is your price range?
I use this one, and am very happy with it.

Linksys WRT AC 1900 Smart Wi-Fi Router
TX scallywAG
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AG
A lot more involved than simply speed as well in newer routers. The ability to handle multiple users/clients has gotten much better over the years.

Antenna placement, number of antennas, range, and beam flex technology are big factors. "Beaming" actually points the signal versus throwing out a halo (think flashlight vs candle).

"Wireless 802.11n supports a maximum of four antennas at roughly 100Mbit each, where 802.11ac can support up to eight antennas at over 400Mbit each.

Smaller devices like smartphones tend to fit only a single antenna, but it gets even bigger in tablets (typically two to four antennas) and laptops and televisions (four to eight). In addition no 802.11ac router released so far has packed more than six antennas."
Article:
http://trustedreviews.com/opinions/802-11ac-vs-802-11n-what-s-the-difference#QlpoSDPH5XXQzXdU.99
---
Class of '10 - A&M Undergrad & Master's Alum
BoerneGator
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AG
Found this review.

http://topreviews.best/main-review/best-wireless-routers?gclid=CJ2wrLHmk8wCFQMHaQod70IHVA

My needs are very basic.

Tried to post this earlier, but somehow failed.
chipotle
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My wrt54gs lasted forever. The dlink after that lasted 18 months. The linksys after that burned down then sank into the swamp. My current 9 month old linksys is about to commit seppuku.
eric76
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AG
quote:
Thanks fellas. You're making me dizzy. Suggestions on a replacement and where to look for it? WalMart is close, while Best Buy is 12 miles.
I just set up my Ford as an access point.

I don't know if it already had the capability or if it was added when I installed a software update on it today.
eric76
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AG
By the way, on the question with old routers, there is something that most people won't be aware of.

The older routers tend to have very small state tables. With today's internet practices and having a higher probability of higher prices logged on, those state tables may easily fill up. When they do, it's going to be slow.

Last year, I had a customer who had serious problems with their interet even though speed tests came out quite good. I started looking at their router.

One problem is that their router had to have a number of ports forwarded and I didn't have their password and the company who had it couldn't find it.

I finally went out there one day and installed a Ubiquiti router as a test.

I was using a flood ping from a unix box for the test. What that does is send out pings without waiting for a ping to return before sending the next. You tell it how many you want and it sends out pings until it gets that many back and tells you the result.

The following data comes from my report on the test.

The first set of pings were bypassing the router to a local address, 10.100.0.1. With
ping -f -c 7500 10.100.0.1
(different values for 7500)

1) transmitted: 7561, received: 7500
2) transmitted 1000, received 1000
3) transmitted 1002, received 1000

So far so good.

I then went through the router to our gateway

4) transmitted: 3101, received: 75
5) transmitted: 3081, received: 75
6) transmitted: 3076, received: 75
7) transmitted: 7, received: 7
8) transmitted: 10, received: 10
9) transmitted: 20, received: 20
10) transmitted: 3043, received: 30
11) transmitted: 33, received: 30
12) transmitted: 31, received: 30
13) transmitted: 43, received: 40
14) transmitted: 3100, received: 50

As you can see, at test 10, just trying to get 30 ping replies during a flood ping, it took 3043 pings. That test was done before lunchtime. The next batch, tests 11-14, were done during lunch time when they were a tad less busy and then it crapped out trying to get 50 replies.

I called the other company up and they located the password for me. I replaced the old router with the Ubiquiti. After that, I ran tests of up to at leat 20,000 pings without a problem. I never have tested it far enough to figure out where it fails.

So if you have an old router and it just doesn't seem to pull everything in, it might be this same problem. The router isn't broken, it's working exactly as intended, but that is for a period of time in which the demands on a router were much less.

Right now, we're using Ubiquiti Routers. We charge $55 for a regular router and $85 for a high powered router. The high powered router runs about the same power levels as the outside routers. We could sell them for more, but I like everyone to have routers that we can support.

For the company that had the problem, if that router quits, they can call me up and I should be there with a new router completely configured within an hour.

I haven't tried any flood pings through my Ford access point/router yet to see if it bogs down at some point. I suspect that it has plenty of space for the state tables.
tamusc
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AG
Wow, you'll see a huge upgrade if you geplace that old WRT54GS with a modern AC router.

I've recommended the TP-Link Archer C7 to a few friends and they've had great luck with them. Highly recommended by most sites too.

http://m.thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-wi-fi-router/

I'm currently using the Netgesr they list as the "upgrade".
YouBet
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AG
You need to upgrade but those old WRTs have to be the most reliable router ever built. I'm not sure I ever reset mine once in all the years I owned it.
Tabasco
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AG
Bourne, I would get netgear nighthawk.
BoerneGator
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AG
quote:
Bourne, I would get netgear nighthawk.
Settled on the Netgear N600 (model No. WNDR 3400. Working great but haven't figured out how to get it to recognize Chromecast yet.
ExPLK
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AG
quote:
Bourne, I would get netgear nighthawk.

This!
tamusc
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AG
You'll likely have to go through the Chromecast set up again.

And nice router, should be a pretty big performance boost for you!
wee_ag
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AG
Usually after 10,000 data packets depending on how often you changed the WAN fluid and rotated the base station.
mhayden
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Newb question for you guys -- I'm currently using AT&T Uverse for Internet and the modem they provided (3800HGV-B). Most of my speed-tests come out ~ 18-19 Mbps which falls in line with what the service claims to offer.

However I'm showing a 23ms ping time and I feel more often than not that it takes websites a bit to first connect. I've got one PC hard wired ethernet to the modem, and two other PC's that connect via WiFi, and things can get a bit sluggish at times.

AT&T has told me that I can't use my own modem (and from what I've read, my selection would be pretty slim if I wanted compatibility with their service anyways)... Would buying a good router help out with things at all? Is there a bottleneck with the 3800HGV-B that is going to make a new router pointless?

Thanks for any insight.
flown-the-coop
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AG
My question is how this router upgrade will improve DVD to laserdisc conversion speeds. Sorry, couldn't resist...
eric76
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AG
quote:
Newb question for you guys -- I'm currently using AT&T Uverse for Internet and the modem they provided (3800HGV-B). Most of my speed-tests come out ~ 18-19 Mbps which falls in line with what the service claims to offer.

However I'm showing a 23ms ping time and I feel more often than not that it takes websites a bit to first connect. I've got one PC hard wired ethernet to the modem, and two other PC's that connect via WiFi, and things can get a bit sluggish at times.

AT&T has told me that I can't use my own modem (and from what I've read, my selection would be pretty slim if I wanted compatibility with their service anyways)... Would buying a good router help out with things at all? Is there a bottleneck with the 3800HGV-B that is going to make a new router pointless?

Thanks for any insight.
The 18-19 ms ping time is likely to be to the nearest speed test server.

If you are seeing 23 ms ping to web sites on the Internet, that's not bad. The 18-19 ms is only to the server for the speed test, not to everywhere on the Internet.

As for sluggish, there can be a number of reasons. Remember that connecting to a web site is dependent on their connection as well as yours. Having a 20 mbps connection does not mean that you will get 20 mbps from web sites.

Furthermore, in the process of connecting, the first thing to do is to get the IP address from DNS. That can take a bit, but it shouldn't be too long. If you have a DNS server entered wrong, then that could take longer as it would wait and then try a secondary DNS server provided you have it entered.

In addition to that, many modern web pages tend to have portions of the page from a wide variety of places, not just the main site. For example, they may be picking up ads from other sites. And if you have something that checks out the web site address to see if it is safe to use, that takes time, too.
BoerneGator
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AG
A lot has happened since I started the thread, and just now getting back to it.

Bottom line, the new router has NOT made a discernible difference in my service. After checking with my ISP, I confirmed I already have the "best" (and only) service they offer (1.5 Mbps), but a speed check today revealed only a rate of 1.04 Mbps, which they claim is within acceptable parameters.

Whenever I explain that my service has actually deteriorated over time, I was basically told "tough sh/t". It was explained that increased demand on the line is the cause for the drop in speed.

I've noticed weak/fluctuating wifi signals for many months, but it wasn't until I realized I could no longer stream Aggie baseball games in HD onto my TV via Chromecast did I decide to investigate (as well as purchase a new router). I'm convinced my old router was doing a fine job. Am I wrong to think that?

Is there no other option available to those of us out in the boonies? Are we totally dependent upon those who deliver internet via fiber optic?
stridulent
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AG
quote:
A lot has happened since I started the thread, and just now getting back to it.

Bottom line, the new router has NOT made a discernible difference in my service. After checking with my ISP, I confirmed I already have the "best" (and only) service they offer (1.5 Mbps), but a speed check today revealed only a rate of 1.04 Mbps, which they claim is within acceptable parameters.

Whenever I explain that my service has actually deteriorated over time, I was basically told "tough sh/t". It was explained that increased demand on the line is the cause for the drop in speed.

I've noticed weak/fluctuating wifi signals for many months, but it wasn't until I realized I could no longer stream Aggie baseball games in HD onto my TV via Chromecast did I decide to investigate (as well as purchase a new router). I'm convinced my old router was doing a fine job. Am I wrong to think that?

Is there no other option available to those of us out in the boonies? Are we totally dependent upon those who deliver internet via fiber optic?
1.5 Mbps is pretty limiting. I am surprised you were able to stream anything HD with that originally. Could it be that the quality of the stream has increased, making it hard to stream at your bandwidth (i.e. do you have any other baselines to test against?).
BoerneGator
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AG
That was suggested by the tech who helped me do the speed check. That ESPN video was better than my ISP could even deliver. I'm able to watch it in HD on the iPad for the most part, but even that signal can be erratic, while the iPhone signal is HD. It's only when I try to cast it to the TV that the quality is poor to inconsistent.
stridulent
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AG
We are in need of a new router for our house. 2 story, approx. 2800 square feet (but not too spread out, pretty much 1 floor on top of the other).

Uses include streaming video/music, gaming, downloads, general web surfing. Will be using it for Charter internet; they will provide the modem.

Is this a good router for our needs?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019WAQMVY/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
stridulent
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AG
quote:
That was suggested by the tech who helped me do the speed check. That ESPN video was better than my ISP could even deliver. I'm able to watch it in HD on the iPad for the most part, but even that signal can be erratic, while the iPhone signal is HD. It's only when I try to cast it to the TV that the quality is poor to inconsistent.
What device is accepting the cast to the TV, or is it the TV itself? Try hooking that device up with an ethernet cable at least temporarily.
jagouar1
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AG
quote:
We are in need of a new router for our house. 2 story, approx. 2800 square feet (but not too spread out, pretty much 1 floor on top of the other).

Uses include streaming video/music, gaming, downloads, general web surfing. Will be using it for Charter internet; they will provide the modem.

Is this a good router for our needs?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019WAQMVY/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
For that money I would go with Synology's new router. It is the most interesting one out there right now imo.

https://www.synology.com/en-us/products/RT1900ac
stridulent
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AG
quote:
quote:
We are in need of a new router for our house. 2 story, approx. 2800 square feet (but not too spread out, pretty much 1 floor on top of the other).

Uses include streaming video/music, gaming, downloads, general web surfing. Will be using it for Charter internet; they will provide the modem.

Is this a good router for our needs?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019WAQMVY/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
For that money I would go with Synology's new router. It is the most interesting one out there right now imo.

https://www.synology.com/en-us/products/RT1900ac

Are these the same routers? I can't tell... the price is $30 difference.

https://www.amazon.com/Synology-RT1900ac-Router/dp/B01BJOF316/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1462483874&sr=8-1&keywords=Synology+Router+RT1900ac

https://www.amazon.com/Synology-RT1900AC-1900Mbps-Beamforming-support/dp/B01773J9JU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1462483874&sr=8-2&keywords=Synology+Router+RT1900ac
Token
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AG
1.5mbps? You live in Siberia ? My parents house in Ghana gets 3.0MBPS
tamusc
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AG
lol, my folks get about 1Mb/s just outside of Fredericksburg
BoerneGator
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AG
Just about ready to give up on being able to stream games on my TV again. Hell, I can't even get good, fast internet for reading TAs! It's very slow at times. Why should I be expected to be satisfied with a declining quality of service? Because I sure as hell am not!
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