UTExan said:

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El Hombre Mas Guapo said:

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UTExan said:

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Because those Palestinians have actual land tenancy there. Villages and fields used for centuries, for instance. Some of these "settlers" are so extreme they take over houses and throw out the owners. In the US we would see that as home invasion and act accordingly.
Come to think of it, Nazis did this to Jews during the Holocaust.

---

Stop. You didn't just say that.

You just get released from jail after getting arrested with your other infada t-sip pals?

---

I actually believe in rule of law and property rights. Who on this forum does not?

---

Funny thing about that....those that win wars get to define law and property rights.

RebelE Infantry said:

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hoopla said:

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The head of the Yesha organization, Shlomo Neeman, described the step as a "strategic process" for long-established outposts set up "at the bidding" of the state.

"This is important progress on the way to righting the injustice for thousands of residents who have been living in these settlements for years without proper infrastructure," said Neeman.

"Especially these days, this is an important answer to those who don't want to see us here," he added, thanking Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Smotrich "for leading the process."

Smotrich said pushing to start legalization process for 68 illegal West Bank outposts https://t.co/KkDLfomQ3j

— The Times of Israel (@TimesofIsrael) April 20, 2024

---

And yet they are constantly perplexed as to why the Arabs want to kill them all the time.

---

Uhhh.....do you honestly think that

1. The Jews are perplexed as to why the Arabs want to kill them and
2. That this is the reason?

RebelE Infantry said:

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Ag_0112358132134 said:

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UTExan said:

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El Hombre Mas Guapo said:

---

UTExan said:

---

Because those Palestinians have actual land tenancy there. Villages and fields used for centuries, for instance. Some of these "settlers" are so extreme they take over houses and throw out the owners. In the US we would see that as home invasion and act accordingly.
Come to think of it, Nazis did this to Jews during the Holocaust.

---

Stop. You didn't just say that.

You just get released from jail after getting arrested with your other infada t-sip pals?

---

I actually believe in rule of law and property rights. Who on this forum does not?

---

Property rights protected by courts are for civilized societies with legitimate governments, not the West Bank. Israel is a civilized society with a legitimate government. It is perfectly acceptable to colonize and incorporate the West Bank, and it's also an appropriate response to an act of war by Hamas.

---

My guy, land theft and literal terrorism is how the nation state of Israel started in the first place.

This has absolutely nothing at all whatsoever to do with 10/7 (except being the exact sort of behavior that started this mess a hundred years ago).

---

This is incorrect, but you do you

schmellba99 said:

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RebelE Infantry said:

---

hoopla said:

---

The head of the Yesha organization, Shlomo Neeman, described the step as a "strategic process" for long-established outposts set up "at the bidding" of the state.

"This is important progress on the way to righting the injustice for thousands of residents who have been living in these settlements for years without proper infrastructure," said Neeman.

"Especially these days, this is an important answer to those who don't want to see us here," he added, thanking Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Smotrich "for leading the process."

Smotrich said pushing to start legalization process for 68 illegal West Bank outposts https://t.co/KkDLfomQ3j

— The Times of Israel (@TimesofIsrael) April 20, 2024

---

And yet they are constantly perplexed as to why the Arabs want to kill them all the time.

---

Uhhh.....do you honestly think that

1. The Jews are perplexed as to why the Arabs want to kill them and
2. That this is the reason?

---

well duh... that is the exact reason stated in the Koran as to why to kill the Jews

jwhaby said:

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I really don't care either way, but the problem seems to go quite a bit deeper than 10/7. There are also quite a few people both home and abroad that don't think the Israelis are the good guys.

I like to believe that people are somewhat rational and that they don't hate others for no reason. Why are the Palestinians/Hamas/Islamists (not sure where they overlap) so upset at the Jews that they would commit such a terrible act?

---

The problems in the region go back 10,000 or more years. Pretty much since the city of Ur was first founded, and even in time before that when there was nothing that we'd call civilization today.

You obviously know little of human history if you cannot understand that people have always hated others simply because.

And the palestenians commit acts because 1. they are savages that literally no country wants to harbor and 2. their religion tells them to kill Jews. It celebrates it.

I just don't get how someone looks at a middle east which is 95% Islamist dominated - with its long history of killing Jews, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, atheists, et al… and continued fomenting of murderous ideology… and exportation of terrorists… and feels bad for the "palestinians."

schmellba99 said:

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jwhaby said:

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I really don't care either way, but the problem seems to go quite a bit deeper than 10/7. There are also quite a few people both home and abroad that don't think the Israelis are the good guys.

I like to believe that people are somewhat rational and that they don't hate others for no reason. Why are the Palestinians/Hamas/Islamists (not sure where they overlap) so upset at the Jews that they would commit such a terrible act?

---

The problems in the region go back 10,000 or more years. Pretty much since the city of Ur was first founded, and even in time before that when there was nothing that we'd call civilization today.

You obviously know little of human history if you cannot understand that people have always hated others simply because.

And the palestenians commit acts because 1. they are savages that literally no country wants to harbor and 2. their religion tells them to kill Jews. It celebrates it.

---

You come across as an ass when you claim that I have little knowledge of human history. I may have a lot or I may have a little, it's pretty hard to measure. What I can assure you is that I understand human nature. Nobody hates someone just because. Just like it's impossible to be angry for no reason. It has to stem from somewhere.

jwhaby said:

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schmellba99 said:

---

jwhaby said:

---

I really don't care either way, but the problem seems to go quite a bit deeper than 10/7. There are also quite a few people both home and abroad that don't think the Israelis are the good guys.

I like to believe that people are somewhat rational and that they don't hate others for no reason. Why are the Palestinians/Hamas/Islamists (not sure where they overlap) so upset at the Jews that they would commit such a terrible act?

---

The problems in the region go back 10,000 or more years. Pretty much since the city of Ur was first founded, and even in time before that when there was nothing that we'd call civilization today.

You obviously know little of human history if you cannot understand that people have always hated others simply because.

And the palestenians commit acts because 1. they are savages that literally no country wants to harbor and 2. their religion tells them to kill Jews. It celebrates it.

---

You come across as an ass when you claim that I have little knowledge of human history. I may have a lot or I may have a little, it's pretty hard to measure. What I can assure you is that I understand human nature. Nobody hates someone just because. Just like it's impossible to be angry for no reason. It has to stem from somewhere.

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It doesn't come from no where. You are coming from a culture that says you and your neighbor are the same, and you are to respect those around you. Not all cultures hold the same values. Some cultures teach their kids to play games like "stab the Jew" instead of tag...

DarkBrandon01 said:

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Maroon Dawn said:

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Don't start a war if you don't want to lose land on defeat

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you can't take land over a war that happened 60 years ago

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You strike me as a reparations kinda guy

schmellba99 said:

---

RebelE Infantry said:

---

hoopla said:

---

The head of the Yesha organization, Shlomo Neeman, described the step as a "strategic process" for long-established outposts set up "at the bidding" of the state.

"This is important progress on the way to righting the injustice for thousands of residents who have been living in these settlements for years without proper infrastructure," said Neeman.

"Especially these days, this is an important answer to those who don't want to see us here," he added, thanking Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Smotrich "for leading the process."

Smotrich said pushing to start legalization process for 68 illegal West Bank outposts https://t.co/KkDLfomQ3j

— The Times of Israel (@TimesofIsrael) April 20, 2024

---

And yet they are constantly perplexed as to why the Arabs want to kill them all the time.

---

Uhhh.....do you honestly think that

1. The Jews are perplexed as to why the Arabs want to kill them and No, that was tongue in cheek
2. That this is the reason?As the proximate cause for the current conflict that began in the early 20th century, yes. Arabs of the levant being thrown off their tenant farms at the hands of Zionists was the catalyst that led to the galvanizing of tribal Arabs into the "Palestinians" that we see today.

---

DeProfundis said:

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cevans_40 said:

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jwhaby said:

---

From my perspective, it's hard to get the full history on this conflict because there is so much propaganda on both sides. From what I understand, the Palestinians claim that the Jews are illegally settling their land. The Palestinians then committed an act of terror in response.

I know for certain that 10/7 happened, but I can't get a good read on the illegal taking of land. If the land was stolen/occupied by invaders, then that would be an act of war.

In my opinion, there are no rules in war, and there is no such thing as a fair fight. If the Jews actually stole/occupied Palestinian land (an act of war), then any response is warranted. At the same time, Hamas committed terrorism (an act of war), and the Jews can respond however they see fit.

I say let them fight until one is completely destroyed. That is the only way it will end. Both sides claim that the other started it and you will never get them to agree.

The Muslim extremists want the Jews wiped off the map ( per their religion), and the Jews will stop at nothing until they've reclaimed their promised land (per their religion). Unfortunately, this will never stop.

This is just my relatively uninformed opinion based on what I can gather.

---

Its really simple and yet we are trying to make it complex. The Israelis are the good guys and our allies and the Palestinians are terrorists. The whole region would be much better off under Israeli control.

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Nothing is ever that simple. If the whole region would be much better off under Israeli control, then they can be big boys and do it without our help. I wouldn't care what Israel was doing if we weren't giving them money and guns constantly.

---

Exactly.

UTExan said:

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Because those Palestinians have actual land tenancy there. Villages and fields used for centuries, for instance. Some of these "settlers" are so extreme they take over houses and throw out the owners. In the US we would see that as home invasion and act accordingly.
Come to think of it, Nazis did this to Jews during the Holocaust.

---

What makes this so funny is that it sounds serious. Great example of being about to pull off the art form of witty sarcasm.

I say take all that land back, kick out the Palestinians, then reestablish property laws after the Palestinians are gone.

Win-win.

Again, there ARE no palestinians.

Only Hamas and a weird, heretical sect of Catholics think there are.

UTExan said:

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WolfCall said:

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UTExan said:

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This is a dumb move policy wise. If Israeli courts are to establish credibility they must uphold rule of law in property taking, which they have not done.

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Why is it Israel and conservatives in the U.S. always have to stick with the rule of law and Hamas (and others of their ilk) and Democrats/Leftists don't have to abide by the rule of law?

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Because we are not genocidal savages like them?

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Half this country celebrates dismembering babies in the womb. Of course we are

Velvet Jones said:

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Again, there ARE no palestinians.

Only Hamas and a weird, heretical sect of Catholics think there are.

---

This dude must either have his entire 401k in Raytheon, or is trying to get Israel to sleep with him

DeProfundis said:

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Velvet Jones said:

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Again, there ARE no palestinians.

Only Hamas and a weird, heretical sect of Catholics think there are.

---

This dude must either have his entire 401k in Raytheon, or is trying to get Israel to sleep with him

---

Or, I had the benefit of a Catholic education where subjects like history were taught.

kb2001 said:

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DarkBrandon01 said:

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kb2001 said:

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DarkBrandon01 said:

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Maroon Dawn said:

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Don't start a war if you don't want to lose land on defeat

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you can't take land over a war that happened 60 years ago

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What about the act of war on Oct 7th? Or are you being obtuse?

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Do we need to bring out a map?

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By all means, bring it out, show us what you mean. I would love to see the cognitive dissonance in action as you try and claim it's one Palestine, while simultaneously pointing out geographical separation between Gaza and West Bank. Don't forget to include the result of the war you referred to 60 years ago, and the actions of Israel after the fact in the name of peace and movement towards a two-state solution.

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This post did not receive enough stars

POTD

Velvet Jones said:

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DeProfundis said:

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Velvet Jones said:

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Again, there ARE no palestinians.

Only Hamas and a weird, heretical sect of Catholics think there are.

---

This dude must either have his entire 401k in Raytheon, or is trying to get Israel to sleep with him

---

Or, I had the benefit of a Catholic education where subjects like history were taught.

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Were you sick the days they spoke about the Catholic Palestinians that supposedly don't exist?

Velvet Jones said:

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DeProfundis said:

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Velvet Jones said:

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Again, there ARE no palestinians.

Only Hamas and a weird, heretical sect of Catholics think there are.

---

This dude must either have his entire 401k in Raytheon, or is trying to get Israel to sleep with him

---

Or, I had the benefit of a Catholic education where subjects like history were taught.

---

Given the state of most Catholic education over the past 50 some odd years, this doesn't surprise me in the least.

ETA- Please point out the heresy that you are referring to. Be specific.

This is great. I'm only through four of the six episodes. Anyone who thinks they know what's going on over there probably doesn't have a clue. This was very enlightening.

It's time for Israel to expel the colonizers and recapture the land that belonged to the Jewish people for multiple millennia.

UTExan said:

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kb2001 said:

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UTExan said:

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What is overlooked in this is that if we do not call out Israeli human rights violations (actually violations of their own codified law, not some nebulous UN standard) so they can materially address them, they could be in danger of losing military assistance from us under the Arms Export Control Act of 1976 (as amended).
That would allow people like Ihlan Omar or her fellow squad cronies to successfully challenge military aid to Israel with Democrat majorities in Congress. And WE desperately need a strong, democratic, technologically advanced ally in the region to confront Iran and keep them worried about retaliation. It's a lot cheaper to fund the Israelis than not.

It isn't about feelings or dislike for any particular party, although I am probably a lot more cognizant of the history of Palestinian terrorism than most on the board here, with all due respect. The Palestinian Arabs are going nowhere. The Israeli Jews are going nowhere. They can solve this problem if they eliminate the radicals.

---

True and also false. You fail to recognize that the elimination of Jews is not a radical position in Islam, the words of Mohammed demand that it is a necessity, and moderate Muslims know this and agree with it on a large scale. We're not talking 1-5%, we're talking 40-50%.

I already posted one Hadith that calls it out, I also posted the Three Noes that were agreed upon and made policy of Arab nations 60 years ago. You should educate yourself further about the roots of the conflict, you don't appear to have much understanding before 1948, and you definitely don't have any understanding before 1880.

---

I recognize that Islamic jihadists will use the hadiths for their purposes. They believe in the simplistic binary division of the world as Dar al Harb (world of war) and Dar al Islam (world of peace). The Jewish tribes in the Saudi peninsula rejected Mohammed's message when presented to them (likely at spear point). But those are the jihadists.
Next door in Jordan you have a stable Muslim constitutional monarchy. It is very friendly to America dating back to Eisenhower sending the Navy to the area to prop up King Hussein in the 1950s. Jordan shot down Israel-bound munitions launched by Iran. They have little affinity with jihadists/fundamentalists even though to this day they place their army on the Jordan River and facing Israel (also to deter smugglers).
The point is that practitioners of Islam act along a spectrum, not a fixed point like the jihadists do. There is certainly a lot of sympathy for Islamic extremists at times but remember that human beings act in accordance with needs satisfaction in general: that's why you may have 200,000 Palestinians working in Israel daily. If the degree of radicalization was as great as we are led to believe, there would be nonstop suicide bombings. There are daily occurrences of violence but not on the scale one would expect if Muslims in general were out to kill Jews. The wall actually helps ablate some nascent attacks, so I am not saying that West Bank Palestinians do not represent a danger. They do. But they are also persuadable to non-violence if their personal welfare is affected.
Ezekiel 38 describes an eschatological scenario in which a coalition of nations attacks Israel, then a land of "unwalled villages". Having spent time there, studying the region for decades and knowing people on both sides, I am tending to believe that there is a real possibility of accommodation between them once the power of the ultra Orthodox on the Israeli side and the jihadists on the Palestinian side is neutralized.
But I would question your proposition that I am not educated regarding the area prior to 1948. I left Bryan, Texas in the 1980s to attend grad school at Utah because they had an actual Middle East studies center. Much of the curricula dealt with pre-Mandate history of the Levant: surveys of the Islamic empires (Umayyad, Abbasid), Byzantine history, Arabic and Persian language courses, political economy surveys of the area and focused particularly on inter-Arab relations and the Islamic resurgence, born out of the failure of pan-Arab secular nationalism.
I focused as well on the Mandatory (1918-48) Levant-the French in Syria and Lebanon and the British in Jordan-Palestine-Iraq including Nazi efforts to make common cause with anti-British Arabs. Please tell me where I can educate myself more.

---

UTExan said:

---

This is a dumb move policy wise. If Israeli courts are to establish credibility they must uphold rule of law in property taking, which they have not done.

---

When you align yourself with the losers...

...you lose.

UTExan said:

---

kb2001 said:

---

UTExan said:

---

What is overlooked in this is that if we do not call out Israeli human rights violations (actually violations of their own codified law, not some nebulous UN standard) so they can materially address them, they could be in danger of losing military assistance from us under the Arms Export Control Act of 1976 (as amended).
That would allow people like Ihlan Omar or her fellow squad cronies to successfully challenge military aid to Israel with Democrat majorities in Congress. And WE desperately need a strong, democratic, technologically advanced ally in the region to confront Iran and keep them worried about retaliation. It's a lot cheaper to fund the Israelis than not.

It isn't about feelings or dislike for any particular party, although I am probably a lot more cognizant of the history of Palestinian terrorism than most on the board here, with all due respect. The Palestinian Arabs are going nowhere. The Israeli Jews are going nowhere. They can solve this problem if they eliminate the radicals.

---

True and also false. You fail to recognize that the elimination of Jews is not a radical position in Islam, the words of Mohammed demand that it is a necessity, and moderate Muslims know this and agree with it on a large scale. We're not talking 1-5%, we're talking 40-50%.

I already posted one Hadith that calls it out, I also posted the Three Noes that were agreed upon and made policy of Arab nations 60 years ago. You should educate yourself further about the roots of the conflict, you don't appear to have much understanding before 1948, and you definitely don't have any understanding before 1880.

---

I recognize that Islamic jihadists will use the hadiths for their purposes. They believe in the simplistic binary division of the world as Dar al Harb (world of war) and Dar al Islam (world of peace). The Jewish tribes in the Saudi peninsula rejected Mohammed's message when presented to them (likely at spear point). But those are the jihadists.
Next door in Jordan you have a stable Muslim constitutional monarchy. It is very friendly to America dating back to Eisenhower sending the Navy to the area to prop up King Hussein in the 1950s. Jordan shot down Israel-bound munitions launched by Iran. They have little affinity with jihadists/fundamentalists even though to this day they place their army on the Jordan River and facing Israel (also to deter smugglers).
The point is that practitioners of Islam act along a spectrum, not a fixed point like the jihadists do. There is certainly a lot of sympathy for Islamic extremists at times but remember that human beings act in accordance with needs satisfaction in general: that's why you may have 200,000 Palestinians working in Israel daily. If the degree of radicalization was as great as we are led to believe, there would be nonstop suicide bombings. There are daily occurrences of violence but not on the scale one would expect if Muslims in general were out to kill Jews. The wall actually helps ablate some nascent attacks, so I am not saying that West Bank Palestinians do not represent a danger. They do. But they are also persuadable to non-violence if their personal welfare is affected.
Ezekiel 38 describes an eschatological scenario in which a coalition of nations attacks Israel, then a land of "unwalled villages". Having spent time there, studying the region for decades and knowing people on both sides, I am tending to believe that there is a real possibility of accommodation between them once the power of the ultra Orthodox on the Israeli side and the jihadists on the Palestinian side is neutralized.
But I would question your proposition that I am not educated regarding the area prior to 1948. I left Bryan, Texas in the 1980s to attend grad school at Utah because they had an actual Middle East studies center. Much of the curricula dealt with pre-Mandate history of the Levant: surveys of the Islamic empires (Umayyad, Abbasid), Byzantine history, Arabic and Persian language courses, political economy surveys of the area and focused particularly on inter-Arab relations and the Islamic resurgence, born out of the failure of pan-Arab secular nationalism.
I focused as well on the Mandatory (1918-48) Levant-the French in Syria and Lebanon and the British in Jordan-Palestine-Iraq including Nazi efforts to make common cause with anti-British Arabs. Please tell me where I can educate myself more.

---

Numbers 34 - 1 The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 "Command the people of Israel, and say to them, When you enter the land of Canaan (this is the land that shall fall to you for an inheritance, the land of Canaan as defined by its borders), 3 your south side shall be from the wilderness of Zin alongside Edom, and your southern border shall run from the end of the Salt Sea on the east. 4 And your border shall turn south of the ascent of Akrabbim, and cross to Zin, and its limit shall be south of Kadesh-barnea. Then it shall go on to Hazar-addar, and pass along to Azmon. 5 And the border shall turn from Azmon to the Brook of Egypt, and its limit shall be at the sea.
6 "For the western border, you shall have the Great Sea and its coast. This shall be your western border.
7 "This shall be your northern border: from the Great Sea you shall draw a line to Mount Hor. 8 From Mount Hor you shall draw a line to Lebo-hamath, and the limit of the border shall be at Zedad. 9 Then the border shall extend to Ziphron, and its limit shall be at Hazar-enan. This shall be your northern border.
10 "You shall draw a line for your eastern border from Hazar-enan to Shepham. 11 And the border shall go down from Shepham to Riblah on the east side of Ain. And the border shall go down and reach to the shoulder of the Sea of Chinnereth on the east. 12 And the border shall go down to the Jordan, and its limit shall be at the Salt Sea. This shall be your land as defined by its borders all around."

RebelE Infantry said:

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jwhaby said:

---

From my perspective, it's hard to get the full history on this conflict because there is so much propaganda on both sides. From what I understand, the Palestinians claim that the Jews are illegally settling their land. The Palestinians then committed an act of terror in response.

I know for certain that 10/7 happened, but I can't get a good read on the illegal taking of land. If the land was stolen/occupied by invaders, then that would be an act of war.

In my opinion, there are no rules in war, and there is no such thing as a fair fight. If the Jews actually stole/occupied Palestinian land (an act of war), then any response is warranted. At the same time, Hamas committed terrorism (an act of war), and the Jews can respond however they see fit.

I say let them fight until one is completely destroyed. That is the only way it will end. Both sides claim that the other started it and you will never get them to agree.

The Muslim extremists want the Jews wiped off the map ( per their religion), and the Jews will stop at nothing until they've reclaimed their promised land (per their religion). Unfortunately, this will never stop.

This is just my relatively uninformed opinion based on what I can gather.

---

If you are the podcast listener type, I cannot recommend Martyr Made's "Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem" series strongly enough. It is a very very in depth look at the conflict beginning in the late 19th century running up to 1948. Extremely eye opening about the various and very complicated social, religious, and political issues that have led us to where we are. Every bit as good and in many respects better than Dan Carlin's Hardcore History with respect to detail and depth.

Episodes 1-3 are on YouTube but you may need to subscribe to his substack for the rest. For $5/mont my it's a steal at twice the price. Episode 1 here-

---

Thank you for linking this Podcast. I have started listening to it and am really enjoying it. I think it's really easy to see the Middle East from a purely one-sided viewpoint and to ignore the concerns of the other side entirely. It's also easy, as the author of the Podcast suggested, to just determine that, loosely paraphrased, "these people have hated each other for centuries and always will, there's nothing that will ever make things better". I love how the author of the Podcast continually brings you back to the question of, "what would you do?".

9/11 was a wake-up for me, and I'm sure for a lot of America, that we had somehow become complacent as to what was going on across the Middle East. We are getting a wake-up call again now. In this day and age of social media, it is difficult to find nuance and reasoning, with both sides of any argument having their more extreme views continually amplified. If it bleeds (or threatens to cause bleeding), it leads. Within the confines of holding down a more-than-fulltime job, raising a family, trying to stay healthy, and furthering my own faith, it's hard to find good resources to serve as a background to what is happening across the globe. Especially when history was never your strong suit in school. Thumbs up to your recommendation here.

Ag87H2O said:

---

UTExan said:

---

kb2001 said:

---

UTExan said:

---

What is overlooked in this is that if we do not call out Israeli human rights violations (actually violations of their own codified law, not some nebulous UN standard) so they can materially address them, they could be in danger of losing military assistance from us under the Arms Export Control Act of 1976 (as amended).
That would allow people like Ihlan Omar or her fellow squad cronies to successfully challenge military aid to Israel with Democrat majorities in Congress. And WE desperately need a strong, democratic, technologically advanced ally in the region to confront Iran and keep them worried about retaliation. It's a lot cheaper to fund the Israelis than not.

It isn't about feelings or dislike for any particular party, although I am probably a lot more cognizant of the history of Palestinian terrorism than most on the board here, with all due respect. The Palestinian Arabs are going nowhere. The Israeli Jews are going nowhere. They can solve this problem if they eliminate the radicals.

---

True and also false. You fail to recognize that the elimination of Jews is not a radical position in Islam, the words of Mohammed demand that it is a necessity, and moderate Muslims know this and agree with it on a large scale. We're not talking 1-5%, we're talking 40-50%.

I already posted one Hadith that calls it out, I also posted the Three Noes that were agreed upon and made policy of Arab nations 60 years ago. You should educate yourself further about the roots of the conflict, you don't appear to have much understanding before 1948, and you definitely don't have any understanding before 1880.

---

I recognize that Islamic jihadists will use the hadiths for their purposes. They believe in the simplistic binary division of the world as Dar al Harb (world of war) and Dar al Islam (world of peace). The Jewish tribes in the Saudi peninsula rejected Mohammed's message when presented to them (likely at spear point). But those are the jihadists.
Next door in Jordan you have a stable Muslim constitutional monarchy. It is very friendly to America dating back to Eisenhower sending the Navy to the area to prop up King Hussein in the 1950s. Jordan shot down Israel-bound munitions launched by Iran. They have little affinity with jihadists/fundamentalists even though to this day they place their army on the Jordan River and facing Israel (also to deter smugglers).
The point is that practitioners of Islam act along a spectrum, not a fixed point like the jihadists do. There is certainly a lot of sympathy for Islamic extremists at times but remember that human beings act in accordance with needs satisfaction in general: that's why you may have 200,000 Palestinians working in Israel daily. If the degree of radicalization was as great as we are led to believe, there would be nonstop suicide bombings. There are daily occurrences of violence but not on the scale one would expect if Muslims in general were out to kill Jews. The wall actually helps ablate some nascent attacks, so I am not saying that West Bank Palestinians do not represent a danger. They do. But they are also persuadable to non-violence if their personal welfare is affected.
Ezekiel 38 describes an eschatological scenario in which a coalition of nations attacks Israel, then a land of "unwalled villages". Having spent time there, studying the region for decades and knowing people on both sides, I am tending to believe that there is a real possibility of accommodation between them once the power of the ultra Orthodox on the Israeli side and the jihadists on the Palestinian side is neutralized.
But I would question your proposition that I am not educated regarding the area prior to 1948. I left Bryan, Texas in the 1980s to attend grad school at Utah because they had an actual Middle East studies center. Much of the curricula dealt with pre-Mandate history of the Levant: surveys of the Islamic empires (Umayyad, Abbasid), Byzantine history, Arabic and Persian language courses, political economy surveys of the area and focused particularly on inter-Arab relations and the Islamic resurgence, born out of the failure of pan-Arab secular nationalism.
I focused as well on the Mandatory (1918-48) Levant-the French in Syria and Lebanon and the British in Jordan-Palestine-Iraq including Nazi efforts to make common cause with anti-British Arabs. Please tell me where I can educate myself more.

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Numbers 34 - 1 The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 "Command the people of Israel, and say to them, When you enter the land of Canaan (this is the land that shall fall to you for an inheritance, the land of Canaan as defined by its borders), 3 your south side shall be from the wilderness of Zin alongside Edom, and your southern border shall run from the end of the Salt Sea on the east. 4 And your border shall turn south of the ascent of Akrabbim, and cross to Zin, and its limit shall be south of Kadesh-barnea. Then it shall go on to Hazar-addar, and pass along to Azmon. 5 And the border shall turn from Azmon to the Brook of Egypt, and its limit shall be at the sea.
6 "For the western border, you shall have the Great Sea and its coast. This shall be your western border.
7 "This shall be your northern border: from the Great Sea you shall draw a line to Mount Hor. 8 From Mount Hor you shall draw a line to Lebo-hamath, and the limit of the border shall be at Zedad. 9 Then the border shall extend to Ziphron, and its limit shall be at Hazar-enan. This shall be your northern border.
10 "You shall draw a line for your eastern border from Hazar-enan to Shepham. 11 And the border shall go down from Shepham to Riblah on the east side of Ain. And the border shall go down and reach to the shoulder of the Sea of Chinnereth on the east. 12 And the border shall go down to the Jordan, and its limit shall be at the Salt Sea. This shall be your land as defined by its borders all around."

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Leviticus 19:34

" The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God."

Exodus 12:49

" One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you."

Remember, this is what the Palestinians could have had in 1947.

The simple reason they didn’t take it is they dislike Jews, and history since then has been them indulging their impotent hate and therefore continuing to lose even more land. pic.twitter.com/Hlc1diWmm3

— Richard Hanania (@RichardHanania) May 5, 2024

They are terrorists, terrorist supporters, and terrorist breeders. Zero effs given for those filthy people.

Just want to point out ancient Israel didn't exist for thousands of years. Joshua conquered Jericho around 1440 BC, and Saul became king around 1000 BC. Israel split into Judah and Israel around 930. The Northern kingdom of Israel - the ten tribes - lasted for 200 more years until 721. Judah was conquered and the other tribes exiled in 597 BC.

So the united kingdom of Israel lasted 70 years. The northern kingdom of Israel lasted around 280 years total, 210 years after the split. The kingdom of Judah lasted around 400 years total, 330 years after the split.

And, the modern nation state of Israel has pretty much nothing to do with either the united Israel or Judah or the northern kingdom of Israel (which was known as the House of Omri to the world in its time) of the Bible.

Last - the Bible says all the promises concerning the land made to Abraham were fulfilled.
"The Lord gave Israel all the land he had sworn to give their ancestors, and they took possession of it and settled there. The Lord gave them rest on every side, just as he had sworn to their ancestors. Not one of their enemies withstood them; the Lord gave all their enemies into their hands. Not one of all the Lord's good promises to Israel failed; every one was fulfilled."

Joshua told them "you know in your hearts and souls, all of you, that not one word has failed of all the good things that the LORD your God promised concerning you. All have come to pass for you; not one of them has failed."

Solomon echoed it "Blessed be the LORD who has given rest to his people Israel, according to all that he promised. Not one word has failed of all his good promise, which he spoke by Moses his servant."

Im Gipper said:

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Remember, this is what the Palestinians could have had in 1947.

The simple reason they didn’t take it is they dislike Jews, and history since then has been them indulging their impotent hate and therefore continuing to lose even more land. pic.twitter.com/Hlc1diWmm3

— Richard Hanania (@RichardHanania) May 5, 2024

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Palestinians are the biggest sore losers in history.

UTExan said:

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What is overlooked in this is that if we do not call out Israeli human rights violations (actually violations of their own codified law, not some nebulous UN standard) so they can materially address them, they could be in danger of losing military assistance from us under the Arms Export Control Act of 1976 (as amended).
That would allow people like Ihlan Omar or her fellow squad cronies to successfully challenge military aid to Israel with Democrat majorities in Congress. And WE desperately need a strong, democratic, technologically advanced ally in the region to confront Iran and keep them worried about retaliation. It's a lot cheaper to fund the Israelis than not.

It isn't about feelings or dislike for any particular party, although I am probably a lot more cognizant of the history of Palestinian terrorism than most on the board here, with all due respect. The Palestinian Arabs are going nowhere. The Israeli Jews are going nowhere. They can solve this problem if they eliminate the radicals.

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I worked years ago with someone who married an Iraeli and lived in Haifa for about 5 years. His comment on the situation was 90% can live peaceable together, but 5% on each side will never allow it.

Faustus said:

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DeProfundis said:

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From the river to the sea the Holy Land belongs to Christianity

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Maybe you're not up on current events, but we're not even there to get our asses kicked pal. [/aliens]

It's the other two branches squabbling over who owns the Holy Land.

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There are Christian's over there. They are treated like crap by both Israel and Hamas. And the so-called Christian leaders in this country can't be bothered to give a tinkers damn about them.

Just like our so-called Christian president George W Bush presided over the complete extermination of the Christian population in post-war Iraq. None of the Washington DC leadership class or any of the Christian leaders in this country gave a damn about them.

WolfCall said:

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UTExan said:

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This is a dumb move policy wise. If Israeli courts are to establish credibility they must uphold rule of law in property taking, which they have not done.

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Why is it Israel and conservatives in the U.S. always have to stick with the rule of law and Hamas (and others of their ilk) and Democrats/Leftists don't have to abide by the rule of law?

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Meh. Wake me up if Trump is ever held accountable for his crimes.

Wes97 said:

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Faustus said:

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DeProfundis said:

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From the river to the sea the Holy Land belongs to Christianity

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Maybe you're not up on current events, but we're not even there to get our asses kicked pal. [/aliens]

It's the other two branches squabbling over who owns the Holy Land.

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There are Christian's over there. They are treated like crap by both Israel and Hamas. And the so-called Christian leaders in this country can't be bothered to give a tinkers damn about them.

Just like our so-called Christian president George W Bush presided over the complete extermination of the Christian population in post-war Iraq. None of the Washington DC leadership class or any of the Christian leaders in this country gave a damn about them.

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Even worse once you disclose they are Palestinian Christians who are of course sympathetic to the Palestinian plight the damn the board does give isn't the one you're hoping for.