quote:

---

quote:

---

tu is stuck on 40 acres (and that is generous). They are land locked. We on the other hand have tons of room to expand. Probably will top out around 65K. Now if just 44 of those are excellent football players we are good to go.

---

The sips have chosen competitiveness. Advantage tu. Their applicant pool is 99% asian, sorry to tell you.

---

FIFY

quote:

---

That is the very definition of degree mill. Keep reassuring yourself, though. Meanwhile, the sips have won academically.

---

No. A degree mill means you push everything through. Someone with a degree is not guaranteed to be qualified. Giving every kid on the block a shot is admirable. As long as you make sure the people getting through are skilled to perform in industry, that's what matters.

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

Since 1978 yes, since 2004, no.

---

A&M peaked in the late 90s/early 2000s. It's gone downhill since then. Look at the academic rankings. A&M fell from a top 50 university to a top 80 with Baylor about to pass us by. SMU already did.

---

Im worried about employers, not magazines.

---

Yeah rankings don't matter. Keep telling yourself that. you do realize that Ags apply for other endeavors like medicine and law, right? You don't think rankings matter?

---

You think they care more about what US News prints, versus their LSAT and MCAT scores?

Look, im not saying ignore it completely and let in every top 10%er with a pulse, im actually against it. But being defeated over short term swoons in rankings is shortsighted.

quote:

---

tu is stuck on 40 acres (and that is generous). They are land locked.

---

Unless they figure out how to build multi-story buildings...

And their campus is 423.5 acres

quote:

---

Academics and getting into TAMU is still harder that tu.

---

No it's not.

Please explain how we are a degree mill when an engineering student still has to bust ass in order to graduate. It is far from easy. Please do explain...

*yawn* another Richardson Zone - the sky is falling thread

quote:

---

I'm currently in ENGR 111 and I can say 2 things.

1.The class is completely unorganized and one of the TAs has told me that it's pretty common for him to come to class completely uninformed on what we're supposed to be doing that day.

2. There are tons of kids who get in because they're top ten percent at a small school but aren't qualified. (I know this isn't a new phenomenon but I have friends at Blinn that are smarter than some kids in my 111 class but went to a more competitive high school)

---

Glad to see nothing has changed....... ENGR 111/112 were an absolute waste of time. I honestly feel sorry for the faculty that have to teach the courses.

tu is plummeting in the rankings, too. SMU has passed us and Baylor will likely follow. Thx Perry

quote:

---

*yawn* another Richardson Zone - the sky is falling thread

---

Exactly.

I'm torn on this subject. Lots of people I knew who were academic stars in HS didn't pan out in college and some that were lacking in HS ended up cum laude. I think the issue is not the numbers, it's the facilities. How do you teach chemistry to all of those engineering students with no new labs?

quote:

---

I'm torn on this subject. Lots of people I knew who were academic stars in HS didn't pan out in college and some that were lacking in HS ended up cum laude. I think the issue is not the numbers, it's the facilities. How do you teach chemistry to all of those engineering students with no new labs?

---

EXACTLY. WE KNOW HOW THE 4 AND 5 STAR KIDS TURN OUT! GIVE ME THE 3* KID ANYDAY!!!

On what basis are they using to rank SMU and Baylor above A&M? Neither one is acredited as a Tier 1 university. A&M, Texas and Rice are the only 3 Tier 1 accredited universities in the state. Also another barometer for ranking is how the corporate perceives each school. A&M is 2nd in the nation only to Pennsylvania University for starting salaries for those graduatiing at the Bachelor level. Having been a voluntary recruiter for the Corps of Cadets, I have had to keep up with admission requirements and I can assure you that those applying today have a tougher time than those in 2004 based on high school class rankings and SAT scores. It is roughly equal standards getting into t.u. mainly because of the demand and popularity of both schools. My only other thought is except for those who are politically adverse to Rick Perry, he has nothing to do with current admission standards.

Old Ags : "What the heck this is devaluing my engineering degree!!"

You mean that same degree you paid vastly less for back when computers didn't even exist?

Who would be a more qualified hire? An engineering student with a 3.4 from the 80's or a current engineering student with a 3.4. Pretty easy decision.

tu still very much the number one choice among students who have no idea what they want to do with their lives but want to stay in state.

does the diploma factory decrease the value of an Aggie engineering degree? if you spit out 9,000 engineers a year....how many of them are quality engineers?

quote:

---

Old Ags : "What the heck this is devaluing my engineering degree!!"

You mean that same degree you paid vastly less for back when computers didn't even exist?

Who would be a more qualified hire? An engineering student with a 3.4 from the 80's or a current engineering student with a 3.4. Pretty easy decision.

---

I would assume someone from the 80s. They know how to do everything by hand

quote:

---

quote:

---

Old Ags : "What the heck this is devaluing my engineering degree!!"

You mean that same degree you paid vastly less for back when computers didn't even exist?

Who would be a more qualified hire? An engineering student with a 3.4 from the 80's or a current engineering student with a 3.4. Pretty easy decision.

---

I would assume someone from the 80s. They know how to do everything by hand

---

Except almost nothing is still done by hand

quote:

---

how many of them are quality engineers?

---

Stop trying to make this about the students. If they earn the degree they are quality. Sounds like you are confused and actually should take up an argument against the curriculum.

quote:

---

Please explain how we are a degree mill when an engineering student still has to bust ass in order to graduate. It is far from easy. Please do explain...

---

Not everyone has to bust ass, it really isn't all that tough.

Almost everything is graded on a curve. You don't have to master the material, you only have to be better than most of the people you're in class with. When I was in school, it wasn't exactly a bunch of MENSA candidates in the general weed-out engineering classes or within civil engineering (not terribly surprising there, civil is admittedly low on the engineering totem pole). Once you realize the people around you aren't terribly bright, it's time to drink beer and coast through school!

Letting in more dummies means things will get easier and even lower tier students will start winding up with degrees.

For me, I'm currently attending a top 10 MBA program (US News rankings). This will greatly reduce all the dumb decisions by the A&M BOR thankfully.

I'm glad it was easier to get in back when I applied

quote:

---

*yawn* another Richardson Zone - the sky is falling thread

---

quote:

---

Old Ags : "What the heck this is devaluing my engineering degree!!"

You mean that same degree you paid vastly less for back when computers didn't even exist?

Who would be a more qualified hire? An engineering student with a 3.4 from the 80's or a current engineering student with a 3.4. Pretty easy decision.

---

Eventually those 80s engineers got a computer at work and learned how to use it. A lot of companies provide continuing education. Besides, you shouldn't talk too much. Someday a 2015 3.4 GPA graduate will be in those same shoes. Just like the technology in the 80s is not the same as the technology today, the technology today will not be the same in 2045. As long as an employee is willing to learn new and better ways to work, then they should keep their job.

quote:

---

Aggie "engineers" take classes at Blinn these days. Seriously.

---

I took two calculus classes at Blinn vs taking them at A&M because of the class size. I felt like I learned/retained more in the small Blinn class then the 200+ student sections of Math 151 and 152 at A&M.
The smaller class size made it less intimidating for students to ask valid questions and have them answered.

For some reason, we're also manipulating the numbers to make our enrollment appear larger.

I suspect most people look at that 56,6xx number and think it's just CS and maybe even just the undergrad population, but it also includes Galveston, Qatar, law school, vet school, and the graduate students. It wouldn't surprise me if they included the medical school this year.

Pull out:
Galveston - 2000
Qatar - 600
Law School - 700
Graduate Students in CS - 10,000

That leaves ~43,000 undergrad students in CS. Fall '99 we had ~36,000 undergrads. So we've grown ~20% in 15 years which really isn't a dramatic growth.

UT's undergrad population is ~40,000, but it has only grown ~10% in the last 15 years. They've also had their special top 10% rule for the past 5 years which has limited growth.

quote:

---

Let in as many kids as you want, keep the degree requirements strict and rigorous. As long as the kids getting out are quality and qualified who cares how many students are coming through.

---

Great point, hassan. "Graduation Rate" is one of the big factors in many analyses of Academic Ranking such as USN&WR, but their opinion of how good our school is doesn't have jack to do how good our school is.

quote:

---

quote:

---

Please explain how we are a degree mill when an engineering student still has to bust ass in order to graduate. It is far from easy. Please do explain...

---

Not everyone has to bust ass, it really isn't all that tough.

Almost everything is graded on a curve. You don't have to master the material, you only have to be better than most of the people you're in class with. When I was in school, it wasn't exactly a bunch of MENSA candidates in the general weed-out engineering classes or within civil engineering (not terribly surprising there, civil is admittedly low on the engineering totem pole). Once you realize the people around you aren't terribly bright, it's time to drink beer and coast through school!

Letting in more dummies means things will get easier and even lower tier students will start winding up with degrees.

---

Very true statement. Half the classes I took resulted in an A if you could average a 50. Engineering is about being smarter than the idiots in your class, not necessarily actually learning all the material.

quote:

---

Who would be a more qualified hire? An engineering student with a 3.4 from the 80's or a current engineering student with a 3.4. Pretty easy decision.

---

Yeah, because everything you use in your job you learned in college.

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

Let in as many kids as you want, keep the degree requirements strict and rigorous. As long as the kids getting out are quality and qualified who cares how many students are coming through.

---

There is a point at which size is no longer manageable in terms of teaching and ancillary services. It is a degree mill.

---

In the traditional classroom setup yes. But from what I've heard from my professors they're considering a flipped classroom setup where you read the material and come in once/twice a week for purely asking questions and turning in assignments. In such a setup I don't think you need nearly as much personnel.

---

You're right. You don't. This must be why Harvard and Yale are rushing to do the same thing.

UT has won this battle. They are now the elite public university in Texas and A&M is going to be the "good" school for the everyman. It will be this way until the Aggies that graduated when all you needed was a pulse and those who share RP's academic philosophy get out of power.

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

Please explain how we are a degree mill when an engineering student still has to bust ass in order to graduate. It is far from easy. Please do explain...

---

Not everyone has to bust ass, it really isn't all that tough.

Almost everything is graded on a curve. You don't have to master the material, you only have to be better than most of the people you're in class with. When I was in school, it wasn't exactly a bunch of MENSA candidates in the general weed-out engineering classes or within civil engineering (not terribly surprising there, civil is admittedly low on the engineering totem pole). Once you realize the people around you aren't terribly bright, it's time to drink beer and coast through school!

Letting in more dummies means things will get easier and even lower tier students will start winding up with degrees.

---

Very true statement. Half the classes I took resulted in an A if you could average a 50. Engineering is about being smarter than the idiots in your class, not necessarily actually learning all the material.

---

This sounds incredibly misguided, and I hope it's not at all true. However, if it is, then 1) How can we restructure things to get people to actually learn the material instead of just being the most knowledgeable in an underachieving group, 2) Where's the personal accountability to get the most out of your education, and 3) Why are our grads so highly regarded in the workforce? Does everybody have shoddy undergrad work going on in their Engineering Depts?

quote:

---

In the traditional classroom setup yes. But from what I've heard from my professors they're considering a flipped classroom setup where you read the material and come in once/twice a week for purely asking questions and turning in assignments. In such a setup I don't think you need nearly as much personnel.

---

this is the worst idea yet. Why would you pay $5000 a semester tuition to teach yourself the material and pay faculty 6 figure salaries when they don't actually teach anything? You would be essentially paying $40000+ for a piece of paper, yet teaching yourself all the material that is available is for free

Something like this would make me want to lose ay future association with the school

quote:

---

Aggie "engineers" take classes at Blinn these days. Seriously.

---

"WE" engineers, also took classes at Blinn in the 90's lol. I took Calc III and Diff Eq with a New Yorker prof from NYU. Blinn was a Helluva lot better than taking these classes from sum ferner at A&M.
I also took Intro To Biology at Blinn, and BUCKY RICHARDSON was in my class.
I would rather do business with 25K Aggie Engineers in 2025 than 1 Tcehtard on any given day.

This is what happens when you let minorities and women in

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

Please explain how we are a degree mill when an engineering student still has to bust ass in order to graduate. It is far from easy. Please do explain...

---

Not everyone has to bust ass, it really isn't all that tough.

Almost everything is graded on a curve. You don't have to master the material, you only have to be better than most of the people you're in class with. When I was in school, it wasn't exactly a bunch of MENSA candidates in the general weed-out engineering classes or within civil engineering (not terribly surprising there, civil is admittedly low on the engineering totem pole). Once you realize the people around you aren't terribly bright, it's time to drink beer and coast through school!

Letting in more dummies means things will get easier and even lower tier students will start winding up with degrees.

---

Very true statement. Half the classes I took resulted in an A if you could average a 50. Engineering is about being smarter than the idiots in your class, not necessarily actually learning all the material.

---

This sounds incredibly misguided, and I hope it's not at all true. However, if it is, then 1) How can we restructure things to get people to actually learn the material instead of just being the most knowledgeable in an underachieving group, 2) Where's the personal accountability to get the most out of your education, and 3) Why are our grads so highly regarded in the workforce? Does everybody have shoddy undergrad work going on in their Engineering Depts?

---

I guess I should clarify. Some of these professors make their tests incredibly hard so the average is very low. A good class normally has an average of around 70 on exams. But when the class average is hovering around a 30 (happened to me a decent amount), then you have kids who made a 50 receiving A's. I had open book, open note exams where no one could get higher than an 80 on.

It's not that the kids aren't trying, there are some hella smart kids coming out of our Engineering department. We may not have the high GPAs like they do in Austin, but we get the critical thinking skills that are vital in the industry. Most of what I learned in my classes doesn't apply directly to my job, but I feel that my degree has provided a lot of value when it comes to being in the real world and being able to think critically.

Muckraker living up to his name...

Like someone said before - it's about time we started ignoring US News and WR. A&M has among the highest ROI for students in the nation.

It's time to turn the establishment on it's head and start paying attention to what's really important - higher education (and K-12) industries are decades overdue for a revolution that will treat taxpayers, students and, yes, faculty with the respect they deserve