DenverAggie said:

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94chem said:

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No, but I do think the players should have to pay rent for the free platform they have. Research professors have to pay about 51% of their funds to A&M in overhead costs. For athletes, this overhead is the cost of their education, i.e. total attendance. If they want to make money off NIL, they should pay for their free platform first.

That's about as conservative as it gets. It's called "pay your debts before you get paid."

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@94chem, it's easier than that. The market will decide all that.

Play this out with me: t.u. and A&M are recruiting the #1 QB. A&M's contract says we're offering $5M but we're making the player pay for all that stuff you think they should pay for. t.u.'s contract is $5M. Who does the recruit choose?

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Which market is that? The one where heavily government-subsidized universities use public funding to drive up the costs of attendance, while at the same time giving free room, board, and tuition to select students who can then market themselves using the heavily subsided and overpriced platform without paying anything themselves? Is that the market you mean? Is that your idea of a free market?

heavily intoxtricated said:

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ARCHag08 said:

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I believe any player entering the NFL must register for the draft. I think that will prevent this situation.

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That is correct. The scenario that OP has "predicted for a while" cannot happen. I guess he didn't know that when he decided to make this thread.

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The US government can't touch your 401k or IRA, that's your money. And yet millions of people are (rightfully) concerned that in a budget or monetary crisis a preying administration could try to justify raiding our retirement accounts.

Rules change, and just because something always was doesn't mean it always will be. The fact that we're talking about NIL is fairly good evidence of that.

BMX Bandit said:

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Quote:

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As a term of the deal, said player agrees to not enter the draft and instead sign a free agency contract with the Texans directly once he's ready to play on the big stage.

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May want to learn the rules of nfl draft.


Solid fail thread

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It's generated a ton of discussion and is now on the second page. How is that a fail?

And like I told the last guy, if you think the rules won't change you're crazy. The NFL is always going to do what it wants, and just like the NCAA has proven it will need to adapt in order to survive.

Guy on a Buffalo said:

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I've predicted for a while that eventually NFL teams and colleges are going to wise up and collaborate. If the Houston Texans "sponsor" Texas A&M athletics, they can support the NIL deals of certain high school players of their choosing. As a term of the deal, said player agrees to not enter the draft and instead sign a free agency contract with the Texans directly once he's ready to play on the big stage.

It's the truest form of colleges functioning as the minor league for the NFL.

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But why? Nfl doesn't spend a dime on ncaa fb. Its a free developmental league and they have an amazing contract structure for players who play 4 years or less

There's no incentive to combine

Title IX enters from stage left
https://www.whec.com/national-world/female-athletes-sue-the-university-of-oregon-alleging-title-ix-violations-by-the-school/

Guy on a Buffalo said:

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I've predicted for a while that eventually NFL teams and colleges are going to wise up and collaborate. If the Houston Texans "sponsor" Texas A&M athletics, they can support the NIL deals of certain high school players of their choosing. As a term of the deal, said player agrees to not enter the draft and instead sign a free agency contract with the Texans directly once he's ready to play on the big stage.

It's the truest form of colleges functioning as the minor league for the NFL.

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I agree with you. This is nest. NFL teams sponsoring college teams with special rights and access to players.

At that point, I stop watching and following. I was against NIL and free agency style transfer portal and paying of players and this would be too much.

Guy on a Buffalo said:

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heavily intoxtricated said:

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ARCHag08 said:

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I believe any player entering the NFL must register for the draft. I think that will prevent this situation.

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That is correct. The scenario that OP has "predicted for a while" cannot happen. I guess he didn't know that when he decided to make this thread.

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The US government can't touch your 401k or IRA, that's your money. And yet millions of people are (rightfully) concerned that in a budget or monetary crisis a preying administration could try to justify raiding our retirement accounts.

Rules change, and just because something always was doesn't mean it always will be. The fact that we're talking about NIL is fairly good evidence of that.

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No, the NFL is not going to destroy the parity of the league by letting players bypass the draft and just go wherever they want.

Future of NIL is not going to be nfl teams taking over and ending the draft.

It's going to be direct payments from schools,

In a significant part of a proposed settlement, the court will “reaffirm” NCAA’s remaining compensation rules, including prohibiting booster pay if they're not "true NIL."

Schools will be offered “economic incentives” to bring collectives in-house.https://t.co/FWoVGIF9OJ

— Ross Dellenger (@RossDellenger) May 14, 2024

With Congress eventually on board with legislation because the court can't "reaffirm" this new NIL set up as not violating antitrust laws

Oops!!

MaxPower said:

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DenverAggie said:

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@MaxPower (on regulating transfers) - Do you want your potential employers to collude to make sure you can never leave your current job, no matter what they pay you and no matter how they treat you and no matter what work they make you do?

I do not, and I would not ask someone else to live like that.

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I can leave my job any time. Should we allow players to transfer midseason?

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yes. BUT, let the nil deals contract in a way that penalizes it (and their grades are an issue too for someone wanting to leave)..

So allow NIL to effectively be pay for play with the length of the agreement being part of that negotiation. Seems simple enough to me.

94chem said:

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DenverAggie said:

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@MaxPower (on regulating transfers) - Do you want your potential employers to collude to make sure you can never leave your current job, no matter what they pay you and no matter how they treat you and no matter what work they make you do?

I do not, and I would not ask someone else to live like that.

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No, but I do think the players should have to pay rent for the free platform they have. Research professors have to pay about 51% of their funds to A&M in overhead costs. For athletes, this overhead is the cost of their education, i.e. total attendance. If they want to make money off NIL, they should pay for their free platform first.

That's about as conservative as it gets. It's called "pay your debts before you get paid."

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not it's not.

The free market is saying they don't need to pay a dime.

By the way, the free market would say these shouldn't have to attend class and/or make grades to play football. Everyone knows it's minor league football now (and really has been for a long time.. for decades athletes get easier standards in and get in joke classes, as needed).. no point in requiring a certain amount of credits anymore..

The biggest fight in the future in my opinion is the limited window of eligibility. Who is to say players should only get x amount of years to earn money playing a sport at a college?

MaxPower said:

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So allow NIL to effectively be pay for play with the length of the agreement being part of that negotiation. Seems simple enough to me.

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Yup.

If colleges start encroaching on the NFL's territory there will be repercussions and they won't be pleasant.

Can one person who is crying that college football is becoming the NFL minor leagues explain to me where the NFL got players before NIL and the transfer portal?

If someone thinks the NFL has any incentive to start paying for something they get for free today they really don't understand how business works.


Finally, some folks here have no clue what a free market is.

Aggies with wealth did not get there by being stupid. After a few years of losing I suspect their money goes elsewhere.

I think every player should have to have a shoulder patch on their uniform with the NIL received so far. That way we could see if they are playing up to the level of their "name, image, and likeness." Then you will know who to boo and how loudly when they aren't.

one safe place said:

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I think every player should have to have a shoulder patch on their uniform with the NIL received so far. That way we could see if they are playing up to the level of their "name, image, and likeness." Then you will know who to boo and how loudly when they aren't.

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Why are you just demanding this now that NIL deals have to be declared to the university. Jealousy? All those years when you could have demanded honesty and transparency and you pick now…

greg.w.h said:

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one safe place said:

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I think every player should have to have a shoulder patch on their uniform with the NIL received so far. That way we could see if they are playing up to the level of their "name, image, and likeness." Then you will know who to boo and how loudly when they aren't.

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Why are you just demanding this now that NIL deals have to be declared to the university. Jealousy? All those years when you could have demanded honesty and transparency and you pick now…

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I have always thought it, just now posted. Hope that is ok with you?

one safe place said:

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greg.w.h said:

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one safe place said:

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I think every player should have to have a shoulder patch on their uniform with the NIL received so far. That way we could see if they are playing up to the level of their "name, image, and likeness." Then you will know who to boo and how loudly when they aren't.

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Why are you just demanding this now that NIL deals have to be declared to the university. Jealousy? All those years when you could have demanded honesty and transparency and you pick now…

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I have always thought it, just now posted. Hope that is ok with you?

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So, to be clear, you didn't say anything until now for decades that likely many schools regularly cheated but something changed? What was it?

greg.w.h said:

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one safe place said:

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greg.w.h said:

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one safe place said:

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I think every player should have to have a shoulder patch on their uniform with the NIL received so far. That way we could see if they are playing up to the level of their "name, image, and likeness." Then you will know who to boo and how loudly when they aren't.

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Why are you just demanding this now that NIL deals have to be declared to the university. Jealousy? All those years when you could have demanded honesty and transparency and you pick now…

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I have always thought it, just now posted. Hope that is ok with you?

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So, to be clear, you didn't say anything until now for decades that likely many schools regularly cheated but something changed? What was it?

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I am fine with punishing any school that cheats. Any and all of them. I am fine with everyone knowing how much each athlete gets in NIL money and I am fine with booing professional athletes.

DenverAggie said:

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BMX Bandit said:

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i know it feels like they are employees, but the fact is they aren't. no matter how bad you really want them to be.


pee wee football does not exist without little kids playing.

local park doesn't get cleaned without volunteers.

under your feels, they are all "employees"

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@BMX Bandit: ok so play this out with me:

Your son's PeeWee football team is awesome, and specifically your son is amazing / he's the star, people are willing to buy tickets to come watch in person, a media company pays millions for the rights to broadcast, apparel is sold with the team logo, apparel is sold with your son's name on it, and community sponsors want to contribute to their success.

The team earns $80,000,000 this year.

Who do you believe should get $80,000,000? Do you believe your son has a right to any of it? How much?

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Not if he or she signed up voluntarily to play with all their friends who all make a team to learn how to play a game and learn good sportsmanship, and he or she learns thankfulness for those individuals and companies who voluntarily support them to have the very best experience from facilitates to equipment to coaches to administrative staff…. AND as a parent I am thankful that these type of people and companies exist!

...

DenverAggie said:

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BMX Bandit said:

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you are again trying to change the issue.

A person can think college athletes deserve money yet still understand that they are not employees under any definition.

I have no problem with NIL. I also know what an employee is and what an employee is not.

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@BMX Bandit. Ok, let's get more specific; here's the actual math for A&M Football.

Revenue: $99,563,727
Expenses: $29,941,827
Profit: $69,621,900

Revenue from ticket sales: $41,710,523
Expenses for athletic student aid: $3,023,615
Expenses for coaching salaries: $10,386,819
Expenses for recruiting: $884,700

What we're really talking about is, how much of the $69,621,900 profit should go to the labor who produces it.

Bottom line, if our sons are helping generate $69,621,900 of profit, I think you and I can both agree our sons should receive more than $25,000 (tuition, housing, etc).

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While playing with some numbers, I found the results amusing.

The NCAA paid out $700,000,000 to D1 schools . Ignoring D1-FCS, D1-FBS has approximately 16,000 football players.

If the players split all the revenue, that's $44,000 per players.

But, if the college keeps 50% of the revenue and divides the rest among the players, that's $22,000 per player. As a side note, NFL players get around 50%.

If the $22,000 is taxed as income, the $25,000 seems like a good deal.

Another BIG LIE… college athletics is a business making huge PROFITS. Then why are college athletics so DEPENDENT ON DONORS?

Let's see how big those profits/losses are after paying back those subsidies (donations) first.

The last numbers that I saw from the TMF, approximately 70% of their total payment (which includes ticket revenue) to the A&M athletic department was from donations.

AGDAD14 said:

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Another BIG LIE… college athletics is a business making huge PROFITS. Then why are college athletics so DEPENDENT ON DONORS?

Let's see how big those profits/losses are after paying back those subsidies (donations) first.

The last numbers that I saw from the TMF, approximately 70% of their total payment (which includes ticket revenue) to the A&M athletic department was from donations.

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You don't "pay back" donations. That's kinda the definition of the word donation.

I agree, that's the reason college sports is a non-profit charity, not a business for profit.

Sparkie said:

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DenverAggie said:

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BMX Bandit said:

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you are again trying to change the issue.

A person can think college athletes deserve money yet still understand that they are not employees under any definition.

I have no problem with NIL. I also know what an employee is and what an employee is not.

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@BMX Bandit. Ok, let's get more specific; here's the actual math for A&M Football.

Revenue: $99,563,727
Expenses: $29,941,827
Profit: $69,621,900

Revenue from ticket sales: $41,710,523
Expenses for athletic student aid: $3,023,615
Expenses for coaching salaries: $10,386,819
Expenses for recruiting: $884,700

What we're really talking about is, how much of the $69,621,900 profit should go to the labor who produces it.

Bottom line, if our sons are helping generate $69,621,900 of profit, I think you and I can both agree our sons should receive more than $25,000 (tuition, housing, etc).

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While playing with some numbers, I found the results amusing.

The NCAA paid out $700,000,000 to D1 schools . Ignoring D1-FCS, D1-FBS has approximately 16,000 football players.

If the players split all the revenue, that's $44,000 per players.

But, if the college keeps 50% of the revenue and divides the rest among the players, that's $22,000 per player. As a side note, NFL players get around 50%.

If the $22,000 is taxed as income, the $25,000 seems like a good deal.

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You also forget all the women's sports that make zero dollars and actually lose money every year.

What happens to those sports when all the "profits" from basketball, baseball and football go to the athletes of those sports.

Then the women's sports have zero operating budget.

As it currently stands the male big 3 sports fund all the female sports.

You can't have it both ways- demand the "profits" go to the playees BUT ALSO legislate that those "profits" go toward funding women's sports that otherwise would have zero budget because they cannot fund themselves.

College athletics is a nonprofit business BECAUSE the men's sports fund the women's sports.

I picked some numbers and got a lucky result. I didn't forget anything.

College athletics is a nonprofit business BECAUSE TWO men's sports fund the rest of men's and women's sports.


A&M is an outlier in that its three men's sports for most part.