Just worked the numbers sites class calculator, added stidham, Sheffield, Bryan jones and Anthony Hines to our class and it came out with a new class score of 248 with 23 recruits. Over the past few years a 248 score is good for the 14-16 ranking range.

I'm not sure how many we are expecting to get this year, but, I would assume it's around the 25-30 range. Getting these guys and a couple more could put us close to the top ten. Not bad considering how glum the football board has been.

MaxPower said:

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Sounds about right. Problem is that still puts us behind Bama, LSU and Auburn in the SECw alone. At some point we have to out develop the teams we can't out recruit.

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Exactly. Keeping a top 15 class though year in and out keeps us in the picture talent-wise. That's important

Weaker? Nah we are middle of the pack, just like our on field performance.

Here it is. The finish we need.
QB: Jarrett Stidham
RB: Travis Etienne (if Bussey transfers)
WR: Bump Buckley, add Al'Dontre Davis, Jhamon Ausbon/Racey McMath/Stephen Guidry
TE: Bump Keynel McZeal, add Josh Falo
OL: Elliot Baker
DT: Marvin Wilson
DE: Montez Sweat, Micheal Clemons, Alton Robinson/Addison Gumbs
LB: Anthony Hines, Levi Jones
DB: Bump Debione Renfro, add Kendall Sheffield

maxnow21 said:

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Here it is. The finish we need.
QB: Jarrett Stidham
RB: Travis Etienne (if Bussey transfers)
WR: Bump Buckley, add Al'Dontre Davis, Jhamon Ausbon/Racey McMath/Stephen Guidry
TE: Bump Keynel McZeal, add Josh Falo
OL: Elliot Baker
DT: Marvin Wilson
DE: Montez Sweat, Micheal Clemons, Alton Robinson/Addison Gumbs
LB: Anthony Hines, Levi Jones
DB: Bump Debione Renfro, add Kendall Sheffield

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it's an incredibly ambitious list. I like it!

working the class calculator...

that would give our class a score of 275.89 with 34 recruits. that would be good for the 7-10 range given the last few year's results.

Half those guys are committed elsewhere. Is that list just completely made up or do we actually have a shot at any of those guys? The ones I see as realistic are Stidham, Clemons, Hines, Sheffield.

MaxPower said:

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Half those guys are committed elsewhere. Is that list just completely made up or do we actually have a shot at any of those guys? The ones I see as realistic are Stidham, Clemons, Hines, Sheffield.

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that's not a realistic list, in my opinion.

the ones you listed are realistic and important, however.

wilson is a moderately long shot. the wildcard there is whether chavis can lock him down. that would be a big deal (pun not intended). beating LSU on thursday would go a long way to getting him i believe, because he's leaning LSU right now.

etienne is a realistic shot as well. i think it'll boil down to who they get at oregon.

sumlin has a big couple of weeks coming up with in home visits.

i also want to see what happens with westlake's two guys levi jones (LB) and stephan zabie (OT). zabie looks like he's going to blOwU and with the strong outing i wonder if jones will come to the good guys.

MaxPower said:

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Half those guys are committed elsewhere. Is that list just completely made up or do we actually have a shot at any of those guys? The ones I see as realistic are Stidham, Clemons, Hines, Sheffield.

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Not a made up list. We had/have legitimate shots with all of the recruits I listed who are committed elsewhere. That's just the type of finish we need if we want to be competitive next year.

I don't see Bussey transferring. This staff has also been stalwart in their commitment to recruits who are likewise committed. I don't see them pulling a Harbaugh and dropping recruits through the trap door at the last minute.

Meximan said:

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I don't see Bussey transferring. This staff has also been stalwart in their commitment to recruits who are likewise committed. I don't see them pulling a Harbaugh and dropping recruits through the trap door at the last minute.

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Busseys Aunt apparently told numbers site that he's leaving after the season but who knows. & I know it's morally superior and all to honor all commitments but we really do have about 3-4 commits who are headscratchers. This is not the year to be taking a ton of projects, we really need as many day 1 contributors as we can get across the board considering all we are losing after this year.

Top 15 is really the bare minimum and I don't really consider it keeping up talent wise. Especially when you just landed the 18th ranked class. If you wanted to keep up, you'd need about a top 5 to offset that last class.

We shouldn't be celebrating nor happy with top 15. A&M is capable of recruiting top 10 and even top 5. It's our 2nd straight disappointing class. Arguably 3rd as even 2015 slipped out of the top 10 late.

maxnow21 said:

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Here it is. The finish we need.
QB: Jarrett Stidham
RB: Travis Etienne (if Bussey transfers)
WR: Bump Buckley, add Al'Dontre Davis, Jhamon Ausbon/Racey McMath/Stephen Guidry
TE: Bump Keynel McZeal, add Josh Falo
OL: Elliot Baker
DT: Marvin Wilson
DE: Montez Sweat, Micheal Clemons, Alton Robinson/Addison Gumbs
LB: Anthony Hines, Levi Jones
DB: Bump Debione Renfro, add Kendall Sheffield

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We're not going to be bumping guys this late. Especially one from Cedar Hill. That would be the end of Sumlins high school relationships.

Now if we come to a mutual agreement with someone where they have a landing place that's a better situation for themselves, that's different. But there really hasn't been much, if any, talk about that.

Either way, we aren't likely to land the 8-9 guys you are mentioning. Much more likely to only close out about 4-5 of them, so bumping guys won't be necessary.

Bone6 said:

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Recruiting is really where you see the difference between the conferences.

In the Big XII we were almost guaranteed to be 3rd best in conference in terms of class even when Fran or Sherman had us with classes in the 20-30 range. Now we're recruiting as well as we have in decades, but we're still one of the weaker recruiting schools in our division.

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While true, the idea was to get a bump in recruiting that made up for it, which should actually make you a stronger program. Which is why when you have a coach that is closer to the 15-18 range like we were in 2016 and might be in 2017, you've taken away your advantage of being in the sec. You have to pay it off with better classes. Even Sherman and Fran landed a couple of top 15 classes. That isn't good enough now. We need to be top 10 nearly every year if we want to be serious about being a perennial contender.

Quote:

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We have plenty of less heralded guys who have contributed. Prater was one of our lowest rated recruits last year and is already a starter. Evans and McCoy the year before. Reynolds the year before that.

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You also have to recruit significantly more of those types of recruits just to get the few that contribute. I'm still fully convinced some of you don't understand percentages. You will take some well evaluated 3 stars in every class, that's fine. But you can't have classes full of them in the sec. We have 16 compared to our 7 4 stars now. In 2014, that was flipped. We had 14 4/5 stars compared to only 8 3 stars. Even that 2014 class has gone 8-5, 8-5, 7-3 since being on campus. What do you expect now that we are recruiting less 4/5 stars?

Also, Justin Evans was a 4 star on 2 separate services. He was listed as the number 1 JUCO S recruit in the country on 2 separate services. He had offers from Bama, Georgia, and Ole Miss. Lets not list out Justin Evans, who has far more accolades than 99% of 3 stars around the country. And Prater is getting destroyed and grading out horribly right now. He should not be on the field. That's because of lackluster recruiting at the position for a couple of years leaving you with minimal depth. He might be a great player in time, but he should be redshirting right now.

I agree with you. This burst of three star recruits the last few months has been disappointing but it is a result of last year's tumultousness at A&M, I feel. The momentum was lost when Kyler and Kyle transferred and the ensuing state of limbo with decideing whom was going to be the OC, whom was going to coach the OL, etc.

After hiring Mazonne and Turner, I'm assuming they began doing their jobs on the recruiting trail, building relationships with players. I believe mazzonne had a lot to do with getting Mond. Turner has us in position for an elite 2018 OL haul.

My point is that a solidified coaching staff is in better position than an unsolidified one. The 2017 class is one of necessity rather than one of luxury. Next year's class could be akin to the 2014 class depending on how we do this Thursday and how we do in what bowl we draw and how stable and active our recruiters are this winter and next spring/summer.

Being in the top 15 perennially is what it takes at first to begin recruiting with the likes of LSU and bama. I like the trend we have in that regard.

I wish we had either the greatest coach in the history of college football like bama does, or to be the sole major university in an entire state like LSU. But, we have neither of those advantages. Every year we are going to have to fight off the likes of Texas (whether they are down or up, they will recruit), OU, and whatever other major university in our state that has a hot hand (Houston last year or Baylor a couple of years ago). I think we can get there but it is gonna take time.

Beer,

I'm not advocating taking 2 and 3* over 4*, just that we can't just drop a guys offer simply because he isn't a 4*. If the coaches evaluated the guy such that they saw him as worth offering then you trust that assessment. I was only pointing out there are instances where less heralded guys worked out so we can't assume a rivals 3* isn't valued as s 4* by the coaches.

I think the strategy we need to purse (that I think Sumlin has done more effectively this year) since we haven't had a top 10 class in over a year, is redshirt more of our freshmen and develop them.

Part of the issue with A&M's performance the last 3 seasons has been the necessity to play so many young guys; it doesn't give them time to beef up and become comfortable in the scheme. This year has been mostly different in that regard, other than Dodson, Trayveon, and Colton Prater-->who played admirably the first 6 games of the season, but has been on a slide ever since, mostly because he is a freshman and is simply not big / strong / conditioned enough yet.

But look at the rest of our 2016 class - they have either redshirted or only played in very limited snaps. Line guys like the Anderson brothers, Kellen Diesh, Justin Madubuike, TD Moton, and Prater (not to mention all the other players) will have had a year to get bigger / stronger / smarter by start of next season...and will more than likely contribute then as 2nd years instead of playing fresh off mom's couch.

All 2016 players except Prater, Dodson, and Trayveon have either redshirted or only played in limited snaps / special teams. That bodes well for the depth of our team in the next 2 years. Although we most likely finish in the 13-15 range in recruiting, the goal should be again to redshirt as many players as we can to continue to build that depth. If freshmen emerge and their skills demand playing time immediately (like Trayveon) then so be it, but as long as we can keep stashing and growing these kids year after year (unlike what we did in 2013, 2014 classes) then we should be a better performing football program. I think playing too many young guys too soon has been a detriment to taking that next step.

beerad12man said:

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Top 15 is really the bare minimum and I don't really consider it keeping up talent wise. Especially when you just landed the 18th ranked class. If you wanted to keep up, you'd need about a top 5 to offset that last class.

We shouldn't be celebrating nor happy with top 15. A&M is capable of recruiting top 10 and even top 5. It's our 2nd straight disappointing class. Arguably 3rd as even 2015 slipped out of the top 10 late.

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When you crash and burn from mid-season forward in multiple, consecutive years, the negative impact on recruiting becomes additive. Our house is built in the middle of the SEC West.

Top 15 is not good enough

Not going to get Sumlin where he needs to be. Sumlin has all the facilities and coaches he asked for now HE needs to get out there and bring in some recruits. Sumlin said he wanted to run a program like Mack Brown so here's his chance.

MaxPower said:

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Beer,

I'm not advocating taking 2 and 3* over 4*, just that we can't just drop a guys offer simply because he isn't a 4*. If the coaches evaluated the guy such that they saw him as worth offering then you trust that assessment. I was only pointing out there are instances where less heralded guys worked out so we can't assume a rivals 3* isn't valued as s 4* by the coaches.

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This.

And @max: the downside to recruiting like Jim Harbaugh is that coaches and recruits alike stop trusting you. If a guy recruits, how does he know he's not going to get dropped for a new Flavor of the Month close to signing day and be left holding the bag, without a destination for his career? It took Sherman years to rebuild the relationships with high school coaches like Fran destroyed, and Sumlin's not about to shut the door on an already heavily pro-tu high school coaching circuit.

The reason Harbaugh's been able to get away with it is because of his natural charisma, and his continued winning. It's no secret that he's gone absolutely all-in on winning at every last possible cost, including going so far as to risk alienating recruits, the media, and other coaches. He flat out doesn't care. But, the advantage of being Michigan is that he can recruit nationally; he doesn't rely on backyard recruiting, he can cherry pick whomever he wants from any state he feels like. A&M can't do that. Sumlin has to be able to recruit Texas well, and he can't do that if he p*sses off every coach in the state.

Like it or not, at A&M you have to cater to the kids or you're going to crash and burn. Once you make your choice, you better stick with it and hope your gut instinct was right. While guys like Manziel are the extreme outliers, it's the 3-star contributors that make up the core of teams (unless you're Alabama; again, exception). Getting the most out of them is what leads to success.

What's killed A&M is a lack of development, not a lack of recruiting. Sumlin's getting players, but they're not growing into stars. While the team isn't as talented as people think it is, a little development leads to about one, two more wins per year, and that would've made his recent record more palatable. 10 looks good on paper, and 9 is shrug-worthy but can be acceptable.

TL;DR: you don't trap door recruits unless you want to be labeled an a**hole. Guys like that get fired when their recruiting pipeline dries up. Evidence: John Mackovic. We don't want to see what a Mackovic would do to A&M in the SEC. Don't go full ******.

After watching them go 8-5 every year no you don't blindly trust them. especially when they continue to miss out on higher ranked guys and settle for less. If they truly take a 3 star over 4/5 stars sure, but in most cases we're missing our top targets and settling. That's concerning.

It isn't good enough. Our recruiting now gets us a lot of 8-5/9-4 seasons. Top 15 isn't good enough in this conference. It's the bare minimum to not get embarrassed most years.

Also we have one total 4 star on either line of scrimmage. That's extremely concerning and on paper just simply not good enough.

Sumlin has plenty of time to change the recruiting class between now and February.

slew of sumlin-bashing posts incoming in.... 3.... 2.... 1...........

Beer,

Where are you coming up with one total 4* on either side? Look at our roster of DL alone, there are 4 or 5 4* alone.

he's talking about the 2017 recruiting class. our only 4* is grayson reed

That I agree with but it still need to see where we end up. I expect DL will be a focus. OL not as much with the numbers we have taken this year and last. Hard for me to say how concerning that is. Prater was our lowest rated guy by some services yet clearly the most productive.

MaxPower said:

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That I agree with but it still need to see where we end up. I expect DL will be a focus. OL not as much with the numbers we have taken this year and last. Hard for me to say how concerning that is. Prater was our lowest rated guy by some services yet clearly the most productive.

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I agree, the OL floundered towards the back end of the season but they are all pretty young they will hopefully progress under turner for next year. David Turner and terry price will have their hands full next year getting a D line ready.

merch said:

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Top 15 is not good enough

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Not when Alabama has the #1 class including five 5-star commits.

9 teams are in the top-25 from the SEC. Rivals has us now at #5.

MaxPower said:

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That I agree with but it still need to see where we end up. I expect DL will be a focus. OL not as much with the numbers we have taken this year and last. Hard for me to say how concerning that is. Prater was our lowest rated guy by some services yet clearly the most productive.

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Prater got destroyed this year. I realize he was a true fish, but he still shouldn't have been on the field yet. Not his fault at all. In fact, since Elbert got hurt and left the team, we have only 12 scholarship OL on campus, and only 5 of them are 4 stars. That's part of the reason we struggled on the OL. Just not enough depth and juice for this league. Next year, we are looking at having 14 scholarship OL on the roster with only 4 being 4 stars. That's concerning as well.

So I can say without a doubt that our current recruiting on the LOS is concerning in this league. I just simply don't think it's good enough to win championships right now. If we close extremely well and land Gumbs, Wilson, Clemons on the DL and a good tackle, that begins to change the equation a bit. But those are some big ifs.

As is, it's very concerning right now.

This season proves we just need to have a string of classes with out the wash outs/busts. That has killed us over the past 4 years. I'd like to see the programs with the most 4/5 star recruits that never contributed. We have to be top 5.