I like what this doc has to say. Very curious what those who understand mRNA better than me (which just about everyone here) think about this. For transparency, I will receive my second Moderna shot on April 12.
Idaho Doc testifies on Vit D, Ivermectin and mRNA "Vaccines"
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Last: 2 yr ago by HowdyTexasAggies
I like what this doc has to say. Very curious what those who understand mRNA better than me (which just about everyone here) think about this. For transparency, I will receive my second Moderna shot on April 12.
Interesting for sure especially on the Vitamin D angle. The Chief Medical Officer at the hospital near this guy did some fact-checking. Here is his rejoinder. The only interesting part is him labelling Cole and anti-Vaxxer and describing his vaccine analyis as "completely false." The anti-Vax label seems to be a low blow but they guy basically said Cole made up most of statements.
https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/local/208/ceo-st-lukes-fact-checks-doctors-anti-vax-claims-idaho-statehouse/277-28e346f7-dd40-4dfc-9cbe-d8edbf576c34
https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/local/208/ceo-st-lukes-fact-checks-doctors-anti-vax-claims-idaho-statehouse/277-28e346f7-dd40-4dfc-9cbe-d8edbf576c34
Quote:
Cole also told lawmakers that ivermectin, a medication used in horses to treat parasites, killed the coronavirus in 99.9% of petri dish studies. Souza said while this statement is true, it would have to be given to humans in a dose 100 times the size used in studies, which would be unsafe for humans.
"When you actually go to the studies, the truth is, it's a mixed bag so we should talk about the entire bag and not just the positive sides of the bag,"
Another one of Cole's anti-vax claims he told Idaho lawmakers was that the vaccine is "an experimental biological gene therapy immune-modulatory injection. mRNA trials in mammals have led to odd cancers, mRNA trials in mammals have led to auto-immune diseases, not right away, 6-9-12 months later.
He also claimed that 50% of health care providers won't get the vaccine because they don't trust it.
Souza mustered an eye-roll before he explained that every part of Cole's claims was false.
"But let's be honest about it, I mean the vaccine trials started about a year ago so we are looking at data that's six and nine and 12 months now and we're not seeing these sorts of effects," he explained.
Mammals experiencing auto-immune disorders or cancer... is that verfied?
Or is that part of the "false statements"
Or is that part of the "false statements"
I went searching for that at one point and remember something close to his animal claims being labeled a false.
This is the closest I can get from finding where the claim might have come from.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-mice/fact-check-a-2012-study-did-not-use-mrna-vaccines-or-result-in-animals-dying-from-disease-idUSKBN2A22UW
This is the closest I can get from finding where the claim might have come from.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-mice/fact-check-a-2012-study-did-not-use-mrna-vaccines-or-result-in-animals-dying-from-disease-idUSKBN2A22UW
Presumably the J&J shot is considered "traditional vaccine" by the, um, old definition?
I didnt see much data in his slides and even know the audience isnt one to understand the data, he knew this would be videod and made public.
Is that a good or bad thing? Shouldn't we be glad if we have a vaccine, Pfizer, Moderna or J&J?JP_Losman said:
Presumably the J&J shot is considered "traditional vaccine" by the, um, old definition?
JP_Losman said:
Presumably the J&J shot is considered "traditional vaccine" by the, um, old definition?
the J&J vaccine isn't any more a "traditional" vaccine than pfizer or moderna.
i haven't found the refutation on the mammal trials having caused odd cancers and autoimmune disorders
I haven't found any supporting reference to it either.Quote:
i haven't found the refutation on the mammal trials having caused odd cancers and autoimmune disorders
Moderna engaged in research to use their mRNA techniques to produce various treatments for several
conditions and cancers in addition to vaccines. This article from 2017 suggests that a key difficulty was to find safe mechanisms for uptake of the mRNA into cells.
https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/moderna-trouble-mrna/
Yet Moderna could not make its therapy work, former employees and collaborators said. The safe dose was too weak, and repeat injections of a dose strong enough to be effective had troubling effects on the liver in animal studies.
Perhaps some of this research is what people are pointing to as problematic. With that said, I can imagine one or two doses for a vaccine being relatively safe while something like repeated treatments for a chronic condition is too much.
Decision making under Uncertainty is a frustrating process. I chose to get vaccinated despite the uncertainties.
YMMV
conditions and cancers in addition to vaccines. This article from 2017 suggests that a key difficulty was to find safe mechanisms for uptake of the mRNA into cells.
https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/moderna-trouble-mrna/
Yet Moderna could not make its therapy work, former employees and collaborators said. The safe dose was too weak, and repeat injections of a dose strong enough to be effective had troubling effects on the liver in animal studies.
Perhaps some of this research is what people are pointing to as problematic. With that said, I can imagine one or two doses for a vaccine being relatively safe while something like repeated treatments for a chronic condition is too much.
Decision making under Uncertainty is a frustrating process. I chose to get vaccinated despite the uncertainties.
YMMV
Interesting. That article did say vaccines seemed safe so that would not be a supporting point for what the dude in the video was claiming.
How they get the cells to uptake the foreign mRNA is important. I'm assuming they are using some kind of lipoprotein/liposome. I haven't read up on it. That would be my only concern as far as the mRNA vaccines go. All of the vaccines ultimately result in the spike protein mRNA being expressed (forced) into the cell. Only difference is how it gets in there. Viral vector (tried and true) or somehow Direct injection and shuttle vector.
Very helpful. Thanks!Romello said:
How they get the cells to uptake the foreign mRNA is important. I'm assuming they are using some kind of lipoprotein/liposome. I haven't read up on it. That would be my only concern as far as the mRNA vaccines go. All of the vaccines ultimately result in the spike protein mRNA being expressed (forced) into the cell. Only difference is how it gets in there. Viral vector (tried and true) or somehow Direct injection and shuttle vector.
The lipid envelope that delivers the agent has been a long-standing problem. Those toxicity problems have, to my understanding, been largely resolved. Regardless, I would not want an injection of this every week; I'm not sure the toxicity would stand up for uses such as chemotherapy. Cancer from one injection? Seems highly unlikely.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
The thread got banned for some unknown reason. At last count I was around 40 or so stars for pointing out that doctors are not scientists. Apparently saying this might be a ban-worthy offense, but it is nevertheless true.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
His points about Vitamin D are very interesting to me. I get a lot of sun for half of the year and then not so much the other half. I never get anything that feels worse than a typical cold, but it is always in the half of the year where I don't get much sun. I have never taken vitamins regularly in my life but I think I will start taking Vitamin D in the fall and winter from now on.
Well, he did say that Ivermectin took Covid to zero in India. That seems wrong.
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/03/31/983041460/india-reports-its-highest-daily-number-of-covid-19-deaths-so-far-this-year
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/03/31/983041460/india-reports-its-highest-daily-number-of-covid-19-deaths-so-far-this-year
I find it absurd that a pathologist with a fellowship in dermatopathology has the balls to claim expertise in immunology and virology. He literally lost me in his introduction, and it only gets worse after that. Making claims that no one with normal levels of vitamin D dies from COVID, claiming vitamin D supplementation is a cure for COVID (let alone even an effective treatment which it has not been shown to be), making proclamations regarding the general importance of getting vitamin D levels checked when the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force (USPSTF) actually recommends against routine vitamin D level checks given a lack of clear utility to monitoring these levels, claiming seasonal influenza increases are due to low vitamin D levels, making claims that a vaccine can't be approved if there is a treatment for the disease (completely false), claiming antigen dependent enhancement is a concern with the COVID vaccines when this has already been proven to not be one, claiming ivermectin as a cure when the only worthwhile data we have on it demonstrates a lack of clear efficacy, claiming India cases went to zero when they started using ivermectin which is laughably absurd and easily proven false, claiming he didn't get COVID because he took hydroxychloroquine for 10 months ignoring the fact that he doesn't see patients as a pathologist as opposed to myself that took nothing and never got COVID despite months of walking in and out of 100s COVID+ patient rooms, claiming a 7 month pregnant woman "miscarried" because of the vaccine, and a pathologist making personal anecdotes on treatment efficacy when pathologists literally don't even see patients.
It is amazing to me that these individuals promoting unproven therapies like ivermectin, HCQ, etc. seem to be the same people trying to convince people not to take the most effective and proven treatment we currently have for COVID, vaccination. I guess I just don't understand the cognitive dissonance that takes place in someone like this individual.
"COVID only kills old people and people already dying so there is no need to worry about it...but it is imperative that you take these unproven medications that the government and mean doctors don't want you to have, but don't take the vaccines because they are 'unproven' and you aren't going to die from COVID anyways."
It is amazing to me that these individuals promoting unproven therapies like ivermectin, HCQ, etc. seem to be the same people trying to convince people not to take the most effective and proven treatment we currently have for COVID, vaccination. I guess I just don't understand the cognitive dissonance that takes place in someone like this individual.
"COVID only kills old people and people already dying so there is no need to worry about it...but it is imperative that you take these unproven medications that the government and mean doctors don't want you to have, but don't take the vaccines because they are 'unproven' and you aren't going to die from COVID anyways."
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Thank you
As long as there are people willing to believe things simply because it reinforces their own beliefs this stuff will keep happening and hold us back. Thanks for setting the record straight.
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:
I find it absurd that a pathologist with a fellowship in dermatopathology has the balls to claim expertise in immunology and virology.
Reminds me of a poster on this site.
Quote:
It is amazing to me that these individuals promoting unproven therapies like ivermectin, HCQ, etc. seem to be the same people trying to convince people not to take the most effective and proven treatment we currently have for COVID, vaccination. I guess I just don't understand the cognitive dissonance that takes place in someone like this individual.
Thirst for power, fame and money.
Quote:
"COVID only kills old people and people already dying so there is no need to worry about it...but it is imperative that you take these unproven medications that the government and mean doctors don't want you to have, but don't take the vaccines because they are 'unproven' and you aren't going to die from COVID anyways."
After reading this board, F16, talking to family members, coworkers, neighbors. This is what I have come up with that drives this mentality. As a bonus, no politics needed
550,000 dead americans is almost impossible to comprehend. Everyone thought I was nuts and I was mocked constantly when I said 100,000s were going to die from this. Add that it kills the old and fat at a much higher rate than others and you have a disease that most people see as one that is only a concern for the weak.
So if you are concerned about it, you are weak and any steps to reduce the likelihood of getting it, are public admissions of your weakness.
But ironically, when you do get it, you have a chance to show that you are strong, by beating it. Not through proven treatments but by masculine treatments that show you are brave (not taking anything), smarter than the "experts" (taking HCQ) and resourceful (heading down to tractor supply to get some Ivermectin)
So you end with a scale of machismo that drives the response/preference of treatment for a large segment of the country.
Not taking any NPI steps and not getting sick at the top. bravest, smartest and strongest. You never showed fear and showed the experts it was nothing. followed by
No NPI but getting sick and having a bad case but toughing iit out. Showed you were brave and strong enough to fight it.
No NPI but getting sick and having a weak case. Also shows that you are brave and strong enough that you didn't get sick.
No NPI and you take an unproven treatment. Shows you are brave and smarter than the experts and found a treatment that cured you. Using Ivermectin from TSC also lets you show how strong you are by literally taking medicine strong enough for a horse.
Beneath these is anyone that took NPI steps, because you werent brave. But you can still show you are strong or not by the treatments you chose.
Taking NPI steps and using proven treatments or rushing to get vaccinated? Weakest people out there who are just sheep following there masters.
On 3/31 this "doctor" was part of a zoom call with 4 other "doctors" to discuss the vaccines. I do not know if Ryan Cole is a member of AAPS (American Association of Physicians and Surgeons), however several of the other doctors on the call are members. You can find plenty of information on the web that should give you plenty of information on AAPS to make you question anything he has to say. I will not post a link to the replay to avoid turning this into a political discussion and to avoid pushing this anti-vax agenda.
I had Covid right after Thanksgiving. I took Ivermectin, HCQ, and Zinc. I was already taking Vit D daily.
I started this treatment on day 5 of symptoms and my course was relatively mild, but I still missed 2 weeks of work. I started my wife on the same regimen before she was symptomatic at all, and her course was shorter and less severe.
I think the refusal of the CDC and the NIH to promote Vit D use and pursue the other early treatment options was a huge error and is very alarming.
I started this treatment on day 5 of symptoms and my course was relatively mild, but I still missed 2 weeks of work. I started my wife on the same regimen before she was symptomatic at all, and her course was shorter and less severe.
I think the refusal of the CDC and the NIH to promote Vit D use and pursue the other early treatment options was a huge error and is very alarming.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Or those of us who realize the virus isn't a threat, behave accordingly, and choose to wait to get an emergency use vaccine. Sorry that doesn't jive with your worldview so you insult and belittle others.
Not sure why you think that post was insulting. Despite your post is exactly why it is so on target.
Different people have different world views and that's okay. Some believe they should get as best information given to them as possible to allow them to make the best decision they see fit for their lives. Not to be in this together. Considering humanity has never worldwide done anything like this.
This isn't a macho thing. It's a difference in how to live life with the same data at hand. A difference on what you value, and your ability to assume that risk / reward for yourselves as an individual or for your family? without being belittled one way or the other, or forced into a way of thinking/behavior because others think you should handle it differently. no matter spectrum you are on
This isn't a macho thing. It's a difference in how to live life with the same data at hand. A difference on what you value, and your ability to assume that risk / reward for yourselves as an individual or for your family? without being belittled one way or the other, or forced into a way of thinking/behavior because others think you should handle it differently. no matter spectrum you are on
EyeBalz said:
I had Covid right after Thanksgiving. I took Ivermectin, HCQ, and Zinc. I was already taking Vit D daily.
I started this treatment on day 5 of symptoms and my course was relatively mild, but I still missed 2 weeks of work. I started my wife on the same regimen before she was symptomatic at all, and her course was shorter and less severe.
I think the refusal of the CDC and the NIH to promote Vit D use and pursue the other early treatment options was a huge error and is very alarming.
This disease is mostly about inflammation. This was pretty apparent almost a year ago, and very obvious 9 months ago. Sometimes when you know something, you can't wait for the government to complete it's slow-moving CYA approach. With anti-inflammatories being OTC, we didn't have to wait on the government. Like when they wouldn't admit that it was okay to eat fat, fortunately we knew better.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
I refuse to believe that all of these doctors are wrong about Ivermectin.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
It's not true at all. The majority of MDs and DOs have either a background in the hard sciences with significant research experience prior to medical training (the latter being a de facto requirement to get into medical school in the first place), practice in an academic medical center and are required to produce scientific research relevant to their field or are literally physician scientists who do nothing but produce medical research. Even a large number of private practice physicians have grants and produce research relevant to their field.94chem said:
The thread got banned for some unknown reason. At last count I was around 40 or so stars for pointing out that doctors are not scientists. Apparently saying this might be a ban-worthy offense, but it is nevertheless true.
Saying physicians aren't scientists is like saying astronauts aren't pilots. Not ALL of them are, but the vast majority over the years have had significant private, commercial or military experience as pilots.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Initially, I was a big advocate for the use of ivermectin and even got a prescription for it. My support wasn't because I was convinced that it worked, but rather there was a lot of anecdotal evidence that it did and little or no evidence that it could cause harm. In a war, one doesn't have the luxury of perfect information and, for a while, the little information that we had seemed to indicate that ivermectin might be effective in preventing or even curing Covid.
However, in a war, one also needs to be willing to adapt and change plans as more information comes in. And the evidence rolling in on ivermectin is that it does not work. For example, here is one study showing that it had no effect whatsoever:
Effect of Ivermectin on Time to Resolution of Symptoms Among Adults With Mild COVID-19: A Randomized Clinical Trial | Infectious Diseases | JAMA | JAMA Network
Additionally, many folks on here pointed to India as an example of a country that was using ivermectin widely and having great success in controlling Covid. I've never researched those claims about India's use of ivermectin, but I do note that Covid is exploding in India right now. It is #1 in the world in daily new cases right now, and is probably drastically undercounting cases since it makes no effort at all to count in rural areas.
However, in a war, one also needs to be willing to adapt and change plans as more information comes in. And the evidence rolling in on ivermectin is that it does not work. For example, here is one study showing that it had no effect whatsoever:
Effect of Ivermectin on Time to Resolution of Symptoms Among Adults With Mild COVID-19: A Randomized Clinical Trial | Infectious Diseases | JAMA | JAMA Network
Additionally, many folks on here pointed to India as an example of a country that was using ivermectin widely and having great success in controlling Covid. I've never researched those claims about India's use of ivermectin, but I do note that Covid is exploding in India right now. It is #1 in the world in daily new cases right now, and is probably drastically undercounting cases since it makes no effort at all to count in rural areas.
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:
I find it absurd that a pathologist with a fellowship in dermatopathology has the balls to claim expertise in immunology and virology. He literally lost me in his introduction, and it only gets worse after that. Making claims that no one with normal levels of vitamin D dies from COVID, claiming vitamin D supplementation is a cure for COVID (let alone even an effective treatment which it has not been shown to be), making proclamations regarding the general importance of getting vitamin D levels checked when the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force (USPSTF) actually recommends against routine vitamin D level checks given a lack of clear utility to monitoring these levels, claiming seasonal influenza increases are due to low vitamin D levels, making claims that a vaccine can't be approved if there is a treatment for the disease (completely false), claiming antigen dependent enhancement is a concern with the COVID vaccines when this has already been proven to not be one, claiming ivermectin as a cure when the only worthwhile data we have on it demonstrates a lack of clear efficacy, claiming India cases went to zero when they started using ivermectin which is laughably absurd and easily proven false, claiming he didn't get COVID because he took hydroxychloroquine for 10 months ignoring the fact that he doesn't see patients as a pathologist as opposed to myself that took nothing and never got COVID despite months of walking in and out of 100s COVID+ patient rooms, claiming a 7 month pregnant woman "miscarried" because of the vaccine, and a pathologist making personal anecdotes on treatment efficacy when pathologists literally don't even see patients.
It is amazing to me that these individuals promoting unproven therapies like ivermectin, HCQ, etc. seem to be the same people trying to convince people not to take the most effective and proven treatment we currently have for COVID, vaccination. I guess I just don't understand the cognitive dissonance that takes place in someone like this individual.
"COVID only kills old people and people already dying so there is no need to worry about it...but it is imperative that you take these unproven medications that the government and mean doctors don't want you to have, but don't take the vaccines because they are 'unproven' and you aren't going to die from COVID anyways."
Since I am not a doctor, I realize nothing I say is at the same level as anything you say. The "rules" here are clear. You can dispute various points from the video and find it unnecessary to post one source. You are a doctor. You are the source. The rest of us must post a source, only to find out our source is the wrong source.
Why can't we even consider what a Mayo Clinic trained doctor has to say? I didn't know there are only certain doctors who are allowed to talk about covid? Apparently, a pathologist is not one of them. Please specify the rest, so we all know. 350k patients? 100k covid tests? 42 lives saved? Whatever. Semmelweis was committed, wasn't he?
You: "claiming vitamin D supplementation is a cure for COVID (let alone even an effective treatment which it has not been shown to be)" No source needed by you.
If it is false that sufficient Vit D levels do not help your immune system, please cite that study. For some odd reason, Fauci takes Vit D at a high dose and no one questions it. Or, just point me to it, if it is on this list, because I am sure you have read most of these studies.
https://c19vitamind.com/
I thought he was saying most people that were very sick didn't have sufficient Vit D levels. It wasn't 100%. Vit D isn't the cure, but a lot of doctors suggest it helps. My understanding is he was saying Ivermectin is our best option right now.
You: "making proclamations regarding the general importance of getting vitamin D levels checked when the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force (USPSTF) actually recommends against routine vitamin D level checks given a lack of clear utility to monitoring these levels"
He mentioned some Scandinavian countries (Finland, Norway, Sweden) test their citizens twice a year and fortify 35 foods with Vit D. Is this not true? If true, clearly, we are doing it the correct way and these other countries are idiots. Yet, doctors in the US do check Vit D levels and often prescribe a daily high dose (10,000 IU) for a month. My spouse and son have experienced this with different doctors. Maybe they don't know about the USPSTF?
You: "making claims that a vaccine can't be approved if there is a treatment for the disease (completely false)"
What I got from this is he was referring to an Emergency Use Authorization for the coronavirus vaccines when he said they can't be approved if there is a treatment. He didn't say EUA. Agreed. However, he talked about the problems with prescribing Ivermectin. (Not to mention the sh*tstorm Trump got when he mentioned Hydroxychloroquine last year. Wasn't there a successful chloroquine study in 2005 on coronaviruses?) A vaccine cannot receive EUA if there is treatment. Completely true.
"Under section 564 of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FD&C Act), when the Secretary of HHS declares that an emergency use authorization is appropriate, FDA may authorize unapproved medical products or unapproved uses of approved medical products to be used in an emergency to diagnose, treat, or prevent serious or life-threatening diseases or conditions caused by CBRN threat agents when certain criteria are met, including there are no adequate, approved, and available alternatives."
https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/mcm-legal-regulatory-and-policy-framework/emergency-use-authorization
This is likely a reason why the US didn't have a treatment, but the rest of the world did.
https://c19hcq.com/countries.html
You: "claiming antigen dependent enhancement is a concern with the COVID vaccines when this has already been proven to not be one"
I think you mean ANTIBODY Dependent Enhancement. If you can please post a link to the study refuting it, I would appreciate it. I never saw what could have changed Dr. Hotez's mind.
You: "claiming ivermectin as a cure when the only worthwhile data we have on it demonstrates a lack of clear efficacy"
From the video, 4 billion people have taken it since the 1980s with few recorded deaths. It is on the world's safest and most essential drugs list. Hospitals in our country using Ivermectin have seen death rates decrease 70% - 90%. Is this not true? Which part? None of these studies have worthwhile data?
https://c19ivermectin.com/
You: "claiming India cases went to zero when they started using ivermectin which is laughably absurd and easily proven false"
Zero cases? I haven't heard that and am too lazy to try to find it in the video. However, it appears that India has experienced an increase after vaccination. From January 16th, "India started inoculating health workers Saturday in what is likely the world's largest COVID-19 vaccination campaign, joining the ranks of wealthier nations where the effort is already well underway." As I am sure you are aware, several places have seen a short-term increase in cases after vaccination (Israel, Gibraltar, etc.).
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/india-starts-worlds-largest-covid-19-vaccination-drive
You: "claiming he didn't get COVID because he took hydroxychloroquine for 10 months ignoring the fact that he doesn't see patients as a pathologist as opposed to myself that took nothing and never got COVID despite months of walking in and out of 100s COVID+ patient rooms"
So, you know HCQ had nothing to do with him not getting Covid? Based on what? The Surgisphere data?
https://c19hcq.com/
You: "claiming a 7 month pregnant woman "miscarried" because of the vaccine"
According to VAERS, there have been 84 miscarriages.
https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data
If you can please cite ONE safety study that the government used to start vaccinating pregnant women more than a decade ago (I am guessing it was 2003), I would appreciate it.
You: "and a pathologist making personal anecdotes on treatment efficacy when pathologists literally don't even see patients."
He prescribed Ivermectin to 42 people. They got better. What does the number need to be for it to matter?
You: "It is amazing to me that these individuals promoting unproven therapies like ivermectin, HCQ, etc. seem to be the same people trying to convince people not to take the most effective and proven treatment we currently have for COVID, vaccination. I guess I just don't understand the cognitive dissonance that takes place in someone like this individual."
He appears to be old enough to remember the GBS and narcolepsy associated with the rushed vaccines in the last 2 pandemics. Maybe that is his problem?
Why is there hesitancy with other healthcare workers? Maybe they are the ones with access to the VSD?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/health-care-workers-covid-19-vaccine-half-not-vaccinated/
Or, is it that some people are getting vaccinated and still dying from covid?
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/out-5800-fully-vaccinated-americans-who-have-gotten-covid-19-74-passed
The vaccines can't handle all the variants and we are still supposed to mask and social distance. What distance is it now? The vaccines aren't licensed. Maybe that is the stumbling block some people have? Or, the manufacturers have no liability. That's a real confidence builder. Ivermectin and HCQ have been around for decades and lots of uninformed doctors in other countries are prescribing them. Also, the vaccines haven't been tested for carcinogenicity. Well, neither are most of the vaccines we give to our children, so no reason for concern. Right?
Guys if you want to say something contrary to the standard "get vaccinated, wear a mask, flatten the curve" stuff, it needs to go to F16. This is not the place for debating settled science.
OldArmyBrent said:
Guys if you want to say something contrary to the standard "get vaccinated, wear a mask, flatten the curve" stuff, it needs to go to F16. This is not the place for debating settled science.
I am hoping you meant to use the sarcasm emoji. There is no settled science on this. We're still too early to even possibly know if the vaccines (or for that matter Covid-19) have long term effects. Areas that strictly followed mask protocols have seen the same spikes and surges as other places that were loose with them. Nobody has talked about flattening the curve in 10 months. That has pretty well proven to have been a hoax designed to get people to accept masks and shutdowns because leaders knew we wouldn't listen if they were honest upfront about how long they intended to mandate them. Don't confuse censorship of opposing views with an issue being settled.
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