Fitch said:
Probably very little. But there again what % of the elevated risk population do they make up? I would hazard not a lot.
Nursing home residents comprise between 40-50% of all COVID fatalities.
Is Abbott lifting the state wide mask mandate today?
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Nursing home residents comprise between 40-50% of all COVID fatalities.
34% - https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-nursing-homes.html
Which correlates pretty tightly with the far right side below. Question arises how the age columns left of 80+ were to be protected when +/- 1/3 of fatalities are still in working years.
Which correlates pretty tightly with the far right side below. Question arises how the age columns left of 80+ were to be protected when +/- 1/3 of fatalities are still in working years.
Stay home? The same thing they're doing now? Only for not as long?
Question from the back row: Did you mean that young healthy people living normally would shorten the timeline of the pandemic via the virus moving through them relatively harmlessly - sort of the inverse of the 1918 flu?Keegan99 said:
It's absolutely implementable.
The key component - missed by most - was for young, healthy people to live normally and shorten the timeline of the pandemic.
Instead, we had everyone attempt to mitigate, lengthening the pandemic and increasing the burden on the vulnerable.
Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.
PS As others have said, I really appreciate the data you post here. Very helpful. Thanks!
Nice anecdote
Just up the road in Wylie, one of the high schools had almost 20 choir members test positive during one month. Their common link? Choir
Several sports teams had large groups of students test positive, traced back to one teammate on each time. Yes, teachers and coaches also got it.
Thankfully, none of those were hospitalized.
A history teacher was hospitalized for a month during that approximate time frame, but it's not been determined whether he caught it from a student or not.
Just up the road in Wylie, one of the high schools had almost 20 choir members test positive during one month. Their common link? Choir
Several sports teams had large groups of students test positive, traced back to one teammate on each time. Yes, teachers and coaches also got it.
Thankfully, none of those were hospitalized.
A history teacher was hospitalized for a month during that approximate time frame, but it's not been determined whether he caught it from a student or not.
cc_ag92 said:
Nice anecdote
Just up the road in Wylie, one of the high schools had almost 20 choir members test positive during one month. Their common link? Choir
Several sports teams had large groups of students test positive, traced back to one teammate on each time. Yes, teachers and coaches also got it.
Thankfully, none of those were hospitalized.
A history teacher was hospitalized for a month during that approximate time frame, but it's not been determined whether he caught it from a student or not.
Seems like people tend to find the anecdote they are looking for: like you just did.
When you learn to accept the fact that people are going to get it no matter how much you try to mitigate it, life is much more pleasant.
Still at it after page 12.
I didn't have to look for it. It's something that I know that happened, just like his band hall experience happened.
I'm not claiming that it happens everyday. Nor am I claiming that it cannot possibly happen just because it hasn't happened in that particular band hall.
That's one of our biggest problems. People like to claim that an anecdotal experience means that it's always true.
There are posters on this thread claiming that ALL Republicans are celebrating the governor's decision. I've spoken to at least ten in the past 36 hours who are pissed. That doesn't mean that all Republicans are pissed, by any means.
There's a poster on this thread who claims that Collin County businesses aren't enforcing mask usage and that residents aren't wearing them. I've been to four different businesses in three different CC cities in the past 24 hours and haven't seen a single person who wasn't wearing a mask. That doesn't mean that's true all over CC, just like his experiences in whatever businesses he's visiting don't mean that's true all over the county.
I definitely understand that my life experiences don't define my community, my state or my community. There are quite a few people here who don't seem to understand that.
I'm not claiming that it happens everyday. Nor am I claiming that it cannot possibly happen just because it hasn't happened in that particular band hall.
That's one of our biggest problems. People like to claim that an anecdotal experience means that it's always true.
There are posters on this thread claiming that ALL Republicans are celebrating the governor's decision. I've spoken to at least ten in the past 36 hours who are pissed. That doesn't mean that all Republicans are pissed, by any means.
There's a poster on this thread who claims that Collin County businesses aren't enforcing mask usage and that residents aren't wearing them. I've been to four different businesses in three different CC cities in the past 24 hours and haven't seen a single person who wasn't wearing a mask. That doesn't mean that's true all over CC, just like his experiences in whatever businesses he's visiting don't mean that's true all over the county.
I definitely understand that my life experiences don't define my community, my state or my community. There are quite a few people here who don't seem to understand that.
cc_ag92 said:
I didn't have to look for it. It's something that I know that happened, just like his band hall experience happened.
I'm not claiming that it happens everyday. Nor am I claiming that it cannot possibly happen just because it hasn't happened in that particular band hall.
That's one of our biggest problems. People like to claim that an anecdotal experience means that it's always true.
There are posters on this thread claiming that ALL Republicans are celebrating the governor's decision. I've spoken to at least ten in the past 36 hours who are pissed. That doesn't mean that all Republicans are pissed, by any means.
There's a poster on this thread who claims that Collin County businesses aren't enforcing mask usage and that residents aren't wearing them. I've been to four different businesses in three different CC cities in the past 24 hours and haven't seen a single person who wasn't wearing a mask. That doesn't mean that's true all over CC, just like his experiences in whatever businesses he's visiting don't mean that's true all over the county.
I definitely understand that my life experiences don't define my community, my state or my community. There are quite a few people here who don't seem to understand that.
You don't even see your hypocrisy. Bless your heart.
Maybe explain it to us, as his post seemed pretty straight-forward.Quote:
You don't even see your hypocrisy. Bless your heart.
Not sure why he is being a hypocrite.
I know four who died of covid. Also, someone I can't say that I know but who I saw fairly frequently and we would nearly always say hello to each other died from covid two or three weeks ago.Rubble said:ETFan said:
Everyone I know knows someone who has died from covid, typically high risk. Everyone I know still knows someone who is high risk who hasn't been vaccinated yet, but are in the process of doing so. The administration of vaccines has really picked up, we're rocking and rolling. Our clinic expanded our hours to work through the weekends to get this thing pushed out. We're so close, but instead of hanging on a few more weeks to get this thing out to everyone who wants it we've gotta get political and make an irrational ball spiking move.
Oh well I guess.
I don't know anyone who has died of COVID. I know of several people whom I've met at some point in my life that died from other things that were possibly caused by COVID, however. Not one person that I know or am connected through another person has died strictly from COVID. You're wording is of death of COVID is misconstrued, in my opinion.
I can also count on both hands with a couple of fingers left the number of people I personally know who've tested positive of COVID.
Maybe I'm lucky, or naive, but then again, I've been stuck at home with my kids for a year with no babysitters to let us get a break. Next week we'll get that break when my parents will come babysit because they've had both of their shots.
**** this ***** I'm ready to move on
The four were all high risk, but that does not mean that they would have likely be dead today if not for covid. Make no mistake about it -- they died from covid, not the comorbidities.
As for testing positive, I was number 13 in my county and I know a number of people who also had it -- far more than I can count, in the traditional manner, on two hands.
The woman I got it from had medical bills of about $170,000. I was wearing a mask when I got exposed and had a very easy time of it. One possibility is that the mask helped keep me from getting as much of a viral load.P.U.T.U said:
Daughter got it from her teacher where adults have a strict mask mandate. Cloth mask do not work, I have already posted about the science behind it
First couple returns from a google search if you're looking for reading material...
https://www.cdc.gov/library/covid19/111020_covidupdate.html
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.03.20243063v1.full
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2
https://www.cdc.gov/library/covid19/111020_covidupdate.html
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.03.20243063v1.full
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2
The head model study shows the weakness of the conclusions drawn. Easy to believe the masks did what they said stopping droplets. But... did they continue to simulate breathing through that mask and expose it to other head models over several hours? I can't see that they did.The stopped droplets don't magically disappear, they stay in the mask, the water is wicked through the fibers increasing the surface area of the stopped droplets and at some point the moisture is evaporated and the virion is either breathed back in or expelled through the mask. That's how real world masking works.
Maybe if every store had a supply of fresh masks and people changed them, what, every 30 minutes? And of course refrained from touching the mask or their faces or continually adjusting the masks.
If you see someone sneeze or cough into a tissue, do you want them strapping that tissue to their face, or maybe just throwing it away? As far as I can tell the head model tests just proved the effectiveness of using a tissue.
At best the science on this issue is now uncertain. The point is it wasn't uncertain prior to March, 2020.
Maybe if every store had a supply of fresh masks and people changed them, what, every 30 minutes? And of course refrained from touching the mask or their faces or continually adjusting the masks.
If you see someone sneeze or cough into a tissue, do you want them strapping that tissue to their face, or maybe just throwing it away? As far as I can tell the head model tests just proved the effectiveness of using a tissue.
At best the science on this issue is now uncertain. The point is it wasn't uncertain prior to March, 2020.
cc_ag92 said:
Nice anecdote
Just up the road in Wylie, one of the high schools had almost 20 choir members test positive during one month. Their common link? Choir
Several sports teams had large groups of students test positive, traced back to one teammate on each time. Yes, teachers and coaches also got it.
Thankfully, none of those were hospitalized.
A history teacher was hospitalized for a month during that approximate time frame, but it's not been determined whether he caught it from a student or not.
Did they transmit during choir or during the sports activities? Or were the students associating away from school in a manner that would increase the possibility of transmission. Could it be that friends outside were also in choir together? My daughter's JH choir wears masks so if transmission occurred during choir then, assuming masks work, either the students were wearing them wrong or not wearing them at all which would be the responsibility of the director and shouldn't then the director be punished? Shouldn't then the choir director be liable if it's found that the history teacher was hospitalized after being infected by a choir student?
If we're unable or unwilling to properly assign blame and enforcement punishment, it's more proof much of our response is theater and grandstanding.
Dp
Gilligan said:
7 days to go.
Six days to go.
My condolences for your loss. I see your point and we can agree to disagree, but I think the data should be accurate and the reporting not incentivized.
What's the truth?
I'm pretty sure we'll never know.
Again, sorry for you loss. Lost a good friend in April to cancer related organ failure. He'd battled from teens to 59. The isolation from Covid is what did him in. He gave up.
What's the truth?
I'm pretty sure we'll never know.
Again, sorry for you loss. Lost a good friend in April to cancer related organ failure. He'd battled from teens to 59. The isolation from Covid is what did him in. He gave up.
In fairness, I don't think he's distinguishing covid complication deaths. Those should be counted as covid. Just like if someone gets the flu, but it triggers another response that kills you. It technically wasn't the flu itself, but you'd be alive if you didn't get the flu. Same idea with covid.
I think some have been wondering about someone diagnosed with covid, but dying for another reason while having it. One that isn't even triggered by or related to covid. When 8,000 people die a day in this country(over 3 million in a year now), and most of those are elderly or people with high risk comorbidities, and those are the same things that kill covid patients, it's actually a decent point to wonder. There will be some overlap statistically, but the percentage of which is what is debatable.
Now, what you are saying, covid complications or covid itself? Yes, absolutely it's a covid death and should be counted as such. IMHO, most would still be here if they didn't' get covid since it's only been a year. However, when discussing policy for 331 million people, IMO, it's still important to point out what extent are we saving lives? If the average person dying of covid would have lived another 10-15 years? Do everything you can to save them. Another 6 months of life on average? I'm not sure you change policy at all. IMO, I believe that most that died with covid would have likely died over a 3-4 year period moving forward. Most, not all. but somewhere in there on average. I think all cause deaths will normalize and be about the same in 3-4 years due to this. But that's TBD. To me, 3-4 years is worth doing some things that you can to try to save some lives. But not necessarily going as far as we have to completely change our entire country and way of life. Schools, people under 60, etc, should have been living much closer to normal imho. Many will disagree. But again, determining the average amount of life you are saving does matter in this instance, so I always thought it was an important point that others would just shun you for even suggesting.
I think the number is probably relatively small in both instances, but I can see why some question it.
I think some have been wondering about someone diagnosed with covid, but dying for another reason while having it. One that isn't even triggered by or related to covid. When 8,000 people die a day in this country(over 3 million in a year now), and most of those are elderly or people with high risk comorbidities, and those are the same things that kill covid patients, it's actually a decent point to wonder. There will be some overlap statistically, but the percentage of which is what is debatable.
Now, what you are saying, covid complications or covid itself? Yes, absolutely it's a covid death and should be counted as such. IMHO, most would still be here if they didn't' get covid since it's only been a year. However, when discussing policy for 331 million people, IMO, it's still important to point out what extent are we saving lives? If the average person dying of covid would have lived another 10-15 years? Do everything you can to save them. Another 6 months of life on average? I'm not sure you change policy at all. IMO, I believe that most that died with covid would have likely died over a 3-4 year period moving forward. Most, not all. but somewhere in there on average. I think all cause deaths will normalize and be about the same in 3-4 years due to this. But that's TBD. To me, 3-4 years is worth doing some things that you can to try to save some lives. But not necessarily going as far as we have to completely change our entire country and way of life. Schools, people under 60, etc, should have been living much closer to normal imho. Many will disagree. But again, determining the average amount of life you are saving does matter in this instance, so I always thought it was an important point that others would just shun you for even suggesting.
I think the number is probably relatively small in both instances, but I can see why some question it.
[We've been over this before. When you make a post as a direct reply to another post, and the post that you are replying to is removed, then your post usually gets removed as well. It is a software change to make it easier to manage moderation. Gilligan posted something that was clearly an attempt to take this thread onto another subject, and a bunch of replies thereto followed, including some rather lengthy ones. These were all removed when the first change of topic post was removed. This is the end of the moderation discussion on this thread--Staff]
Thought that post was one of the best ones on this thread.
Just start now... I have been doing it for a yearGilligan said:Gilligan said:
7 days to go.
Six days to go.
. 
Yeah a lot of good points have been made by all sides.
Why can't people who want to wear a mask just wear one and those who DON'T want to just not? Then we can just leave everyone alone.
I've mentioned my Collin County experiences on here and elsewhere, so I am not sure if you are referencing me or not. I hope I didn't lead people to believe that "most" people I saw were maskless. That is not at all the case. I'd say 20-25% at most are maskless. But, that's a pretty good amount of people. It's not like 1 or 2 people. Enough to feel that enforcement is not being encouraged by store management. But it depends on the store. Scheels sales firearms and has a huge gun and ammo area. So, obviously you would expect a lot of people in there to be maskless as most gun enthusiasts are conservative and a very good portion of those opposed to the mask mandate are conservative. Sprouts? Almost never see someone without a mask on. Natural grocer with a lot of people who probably lean left shopping in there. Granted, plenty of conservatives shop there too, but they probably are either told to mask or just do it knowing the environment that they are walking into. Sprouts is very careful to ensure you do not take a "dirty" cart or basket. All bulk is now prepackaged etc. So I assume they also enforce the mandate. I will continue to shop there. I have no problem wearing a mask if they require it. But when I am done with my 14 day period after this 2nd dose I got, I can see me running the kids over to Scheels and not wearing one. Same with any store. If they require one, I'll do it. I'm not boycotting any business b/c of their mask policy one way or the other. It's petty imo and unrealistic.cc_ag92 said:
I didn't have to look for it. It's something that I know that happened, just like his band hall experience happened.
I'm not claiming that it happens everyday. Nor am I claiming that it cannot possibly happen just because it hasn't happened in that particular band hall.
That's one of our biggest problems. People like to claim that an anecdotal experience means that it's always true.
There are posters on this thread claiming that ALL Republicans are celebrating the governor's decision. I've spoken to at least ten in the past 36 hours who are pissed. That doesn't mean that all Republicans are pissed, by any means.
There's a poster on this thread who claims that Collin County businesses aren't enforcing mask usage and that residents aren't wearing them. I've been to four different businesses in three different CC cities in the past 24 hours and haven't seen a single person who wasn't wearing a mask. That doesn't mean that's true all over CC, just like his experiences in whatever businesses he's visiting don't mean that's true all over the county.
I definitely understand that my life experiences don't define my community, my state or my community. There are quite a few people here who don't seem to understand that.
TLDR: I hope I didn't over state the situation in CC. I have just seen a large amount of maskless folks in almost all stores and can tell that most stores are not enforcing but rather suggesting already. Who could blame them. It's too hard to expect hardcore enforcement.
No problem from this end. It's just the ones that argue me not wearing a mask is not leaving them alone, and risking their family members lives.Charpie said:
Why can't people who want to wear a mask just wear one and those who DON'T want to just not? Then we can just leave everyone alone.
Nevermind that if I don't get near you and you aren't exposed to me for more than a few seconds at a time, you have literally nothing to worry about. Just saying. Many don't understand that, and think just by being in the same building as me without a mask, they are now at major risk.
AgreeQuote:
The head model study shows the weakness of the conclusions drawn. Easy to believe the masks did what they said stopping droplets. But... did they continue to simulate breathing through that mask and expose it to other head models over several hours? I can't see that they did.The stopped droplets don't magically disappear, they stay in the mask, the water is wicked through the fibers increasing the surface area of the stopped droplets and at some point the moisture is evaporated and the virion is either breathed back in or expelled through the mask. That's how real world masking works.
They also say this in the nature.com article:
So if you're a student sitting in school for 8 hours a day I don't see how this limits the spread because they're not changing masks 8x a day. And if the second bolded statement is correct, you most likely get the virus from having dinner with your buddy...not walking by a total stranger at the grocery store. Am I missing something?Quote:
Among the samples collected without a face mask, we found that the majority of participants with influenza virus and coronavirus infection did not shed detectable virus in respiratory droplets or aerosols, whereas for rhinovirus we detected virus in aerosols in 19 of 34 (56%) participants (compared to 4 of 10 (40%) for coronavirus and 8 of 23 (35%) for influenza). For those who did shed virus in respiratory droplets and aerosols, viral load in both tended to be low (Fig. 1). Given the high collection efficiency of the G-II (ref. 19) and given that each exhaled breath collection was conducted for 30 min, this might imply that prolonged close contact would be required for transmission to occur, even if transmission was primarily via aerosols, as has been described for rhinovirus colds20.
Charpie said:
Why can't people who want to wear a mask just wear one and those who DON'T want to just not? Then we can just leave everyone alone.
It should be that easy, but the pro-maskers need to tell someone how awful they are for not wearing one so the pat on the back feels as good as the cool side of the pillow.
Because these people feel like you are putting their lives at risk. The rest of us argue that the 0.2 second interaction from a distance of greater than 6 feet away is insignificant on the risk scale. They don't think of things statistically, only with emotion.Quote:
Why can't people who want to wear a mask just wear one and those who DON'T want to just not? Then we can just leave everyone alone.
I hear you. I saw someone yell "SHEEP" to someone wearing a mask yesterday.
It really does go both way.
It's like people forgot how to be decent to one another through this whole thing.
It really does go both way.
It's like people forgot how to be decent to one another through this whole thing.
While I support masking I'm wondering how many people that are against mask mandates are also for masking at personal discretion.
It seems that there are three categories: pro mandate, anti mandate / pro masking, anti-masking all together.
It seems that there are three categories: pro mandate, anti mandate / pro masking, anti-masking all together.
Not to derail the thread, but decorum in society is crashing and burning and social media is fanning the flames.Charpie said:
I hear you. I saw someone yell "SHEEP" to someone wearing a mask yesterday.
It really does go both way.
It's like people forgot how to be decent to one another through this whole thing.
There's no place for that behavior. Let's all try to get along...
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