Russian "Vaccine"

4,110 Views | 36 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by jkcpow
SouthTex99
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From the country that brought you Communism and Chernobyl...I now present the world's first COVID-19 vaccine.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53735718

Russian President Vladimir Putin has said a locally developed vaccine for Covid-19 has been given regulatory approval after less than two months of testing on humans.

Mr Putin said the vaccine had passed all the required checks, adding that his daughter had already been given it.

Officials have said they plan to start mass vaccination in October.

Experts have raised concerns about the speed of Russia's work, suggesting that researchers might be cutting corners.

Amid fears that safety could have been compromised, the World Health Organization (WHO) urged Russia last week to follow international guidelines for producing a vaccine against Covid-19.

On Tuesday, the WHO said it had been in talks with Russian authorities about undertaking a review of the vaccine, which has been named Sputnik-V.

Currently, the Russian vaccine is not among the WHO's list of six vaccines that have reached phase three clinical trials, which involve more widespread testing in humans.

More than 100 vaccines around the world are in early development, with some of those being tested on people in clinical trials.

Despite rapid progress, most experts think any vaccine would not become widely available until mid-2021.
What did President Putin say about the vaccine?

Calling it a world first, President Putin said the vaccine, developed by Moscow's Gamaleya Institute, offered "sustainable immunity" against the coronavirus.

He said he knew the vaccine was "quite effective", without giving further details, and stressed that it had passed "all needed checks".

Mr Putin also said the vaccine had been given to one of his daughters, who was feeling fine despite a brief temperature increase.

"I think in this sense she took part in the experiment," Mr Putin said.

"After the first injection her temperature was 38 degrees, the next day 37.5, and that was it. After the second injection her temperature went up slightly, then back to normal."

He did not specify which of his two daughters had received the vaccine. It is rare for President Putin to talk publicly about them. Their lives of his daughters, named Maria Vorontsova and Katerina Tikhonova in media reports, have been shrouded in secrecy.

What do we know about the vaccine?

Last week, the Russian government announced it was preparing to begin mass vaccinations against coronavirus in October.

Russian scientists said early-stage trials of the vaccine had been completed and the results were a success.

The Russian vaccine uses adapted strains of the adenovirus, a virus that usually causes the common cold, to trigger an immune response.

But the vaccine's approval by Russian regulators comes before the completion of a larger study involving thousands of people, known as a phase-three trial.

Experts consider these trials an essential part of the testing process.

Despite this, Russian Health Minister Mikhail Murashko said on Tuesday the vaccine had "proven to be highly effective and safe", hailing it as a big step towards "humankind's victory" over Covid-19.

Russian officials said the vaccine had been named Sputnik-V, in honour of the world's first satellite. They have likened the search for a vaccine to the space race contested by the Soviet Union and the US during the Cold War.

Russia is fast-tracking its Covid-19 vaccine at an extraordinary pace. It began the first clinical trials on 1 June, months after teams in China, the US and Europe.

Unlike other groups, the Gamaleya Institute in Moscow has not released any safety or immunity data from its studies. This makes it impossible for independent scientists to make an assessment.

President Putin is keen to send a clear message to the world regarding the prowess of Russian science. But simply being first is not enough.

No Covid-19 vaccine being developed has yet been shown to offer protection against coronavirus. That central question remains unanswered.

What reaction has there been to Russia's vaccine efforts?

The progress Russia says it has made on a coronavirus vaccine has been met with scepticism by health officials and media outlets in the US and Europe.

Last month, America's leading infectious diseases expert Dr Anthony Fauci expressed doubts about the rigour of the testing process in fast-track vaccine efforts in Russia and China.

WHO spokesman Christian Lindmeier has echoed those sentiments, telling reporters on 4 August: "Sometimes individual researchers claim they have found something, which is of course, as such, great news.

"But between finding or having a clue of maybe having a vaccine that works, and having gone through all the stages, is a big difference."






KidDoc
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Pretty sad they are unleashing a phase 3 trial on the general population but the data could be very interesting for the world.
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amercer
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Vaccines are pretty old technology, but are hard to make and test. Assuming they didn't really bother with QC on the manufacturing and blew off the clinical trials, they could certainly be ready to go by October.

Russia might get away with a vaccine that protects 50% of the people that take it, and kills 0.1% of them....
DeangeloVickers
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Probably just Vodka
amercer
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I will also say that Russians have a very different approach to engineering and manufacturing. In the west we spend a bunch of time on backup systems and redundancy. They just build everything not to fail.

Judging by our respective space programs I'm not sure which method is better.
KidDoc
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amercer said:

Vaccines are pretty old technology, but are hard to make and test. Assuming they didn't really bother with QC on the manufacturing and blew off the clinical trials, they could certainly be ready to go by October.

Russia might get away with a vaccine that protects 50% of the people that take it, and kills 0.1% of them....
Is there a current vaccine using adenovirus as the vehicle?

Is there a current vaccine using mRNA?

There has never been a good Coronavirus vaccine because our immune system does not care about Coronavirus because it does not kill us or cause long lasting disease. It will take a novel vaccine to fight this novel virus and trick the immune system to develop long term immunity. Traditional vaccine tech is killing or weakening the virus then injecting it and hoping the immune system does it's job.

The newer conjugate vaccines use Diptheria not adenovirus as the immune stimulant (PCV, HPV, etc)

I am optimistic about the mRNA specifically but it needs to be pushed to the public with caution. In Russia that apparently does not apply.
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DadHammer
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I am sure its perfectly safe. The communists said its fine, so half our country will believe them.
amercer
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The advantages of the newer technologies are mostly related to speed. I would bet large sums of money that GSK rolls out a Covid vaccine next fall built with old technology.

The main reason there has never been a coronavirus vaccine is that no one cared enough. Vaccines in non pandemic times are ten year development investments costing billions to bring to market. SARS and MERS died out before any of the vaccines could even be tested, and the common cold is a mix of a handful of different coronaviruses, so a single vaccine wouldn't do much (plus we can hardly get people to take flu vaccines, so one for the common cold probably wouldn't sell at all)
revvie
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cone
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what if the main utility of the "vaccine rollout" as an event is a psychological one with regard to permission structure and return to normalcy, regardless of how effective it proves to be

at some point in time (likely at some time past the elections) the powers that be are going to declare victory, no matter the absolute effectiveness of whatever vaccine that's gotten through trials
deadbq03
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amercer said:

I will also say that Russians have a very different approach to engineering and manufacturing. In the west we spend a bunch of time on backup systems and redundancy. They just build everything not to fail.

Judging by our respective space programs I'm not sure which method is better.
I always liked the anecdote: the US space program spent millions of dollars designing pens that could write in zero gravity; the Russians just used pencils.
amercer
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I think there is a big psychological effect at play. Our failure to contain this at the start has lead to a situation where the facts aren't really what matter anymore. Everyday that we stay in lockdown it becomes more normal, and returning to pre pandemic activities becomes more unthinkable. One way to combat that would be daily, consistent improvement in controlling the spread. Since we've given up on even trying for baby steps, I think we will need something like a vaccine to shift the whole debate.
KidDoc
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amercer said:

The advantages of the newer technologies are mostly related to speed. I would bet large sums of money that GSK rolls out a Covid vaccine next fall built with old technology.

The main reason there has never been a coronavirus vaccine is that no one cared enough. Vaccines in non pandemic times are ten year development investments costing billions to bring to market. SARS and MERS died out before any of the vaccines could even be tested, and the common cold is a mix of a handful of different coronaviruses, so a single vaccine wouldn't do much (plus we can hardly get people to take flu vaccines, so one for the common cold probably wouldn't sell at all)
Great points.

With the flu vaccine it also is a really bad vaccine. 39% efficacy last year is just awful.

No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
amercer
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The good thing about the flu vaccine though is that it doesn't just last a year. The do miss on the strains a lot, but if you've been getting it for 10 years you should have a lot of cross reactive immunity. So hopefully even in a year where the vaccine sucks you've got some protection and only get a mild case.

I'd love to see a estimate on how deadly the flu would be if it was totally novel and sweeping the globe right now. Because it's pretty deadly even with vaccines and a lot of residual immunity.
cone
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lol what would baby steps look like
SouthTex99
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I hear that a lot too but the Russians quickly moved on to our antigravity pens in the 1960's as pencil tips flake off and can damage small electronics. They are also flammable.
KidDoc
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SouthTex99 said:

I hear that a lot too but the Russians quickly moved on to our antigravity pens in the 1960's as pencil tips flake off and can damage small electronics. They are also flammable.
This is the most interesting thread derailment ever!

And no, I am not being sarcastic- I find this comparison of astronaut writing utensils fascinating.
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amercer
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Everyone wearing a mask? Avoiding large gatherings?

Really what we need are a couple weeks where things move in the right direction every day. That would give people confidence that we can do something about the virus.

That's the big difference I see with my Europe colleagues. No one over there thinks the virus is a hoax, but they know they did a good job containing it and that if is pops up again they can just do the same things as before to get it under control.

Here we've spent so much time arguing, that no strategy has really been implemented and so we've never had that feeling that what we are doing will work. So a lot of people are in "**** it we have to wait for a vaccine" mode.
cone
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Quote:

so we've never had that feeling that what we are doing will work. So a lot of people are in "**** it we have to wait for a vaccine" mode.
i think i disagree profoundly
deadbq03
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SouthTex99 said:

I hear that a lot too but the Russians quickly moved on to our antigravity pens in the 1960's as pencil tips flake off and can damage small electronics. They are also flammable.
Yeah it's funny but at a deeper level it really highlights both sides of the coin. You can be cheap, or you can be safe, but you can't really be cheap and safe. There's always a tradeoff. This vaccine deal is no exception.
amercer
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Do you see the country returning to normal before a vaccine is available? College football is about to get canceled for the year and most places have completely halted their reopening plans. I'm stuck in phase II with no hope for phase III until my county of over a million people is down to less than 10 new cases a day. Oh, and there's never been a phase IV. The plan for fully reopening doesn't even exist.
94chem
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Russians actually have a proud history here:

Catherine the Great

As did colonial America:

George Washington

Atreides Ornithopter
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deadbq03 said:

amercer said:

I will also say that Russians have a very different approach to engineering and manufacturing. In the west we spend a bunch of time on backup systems and redundancy. They just build everything not to fail.

Judging by our respective space programs I'm not sure which method is better.
I always liked the anecdote: the US space program spent millions of dollars designing pens that could write in zero gravity; the Russians just used pencils.


Graphite would clog air filters and float around in the cabin. And an independent person developed that "special " pen without government money and gave it to NASA
Trucker 96
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Zombie Apocolypse is on the way
cone
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Quote:

Do you see the country returning to normal before a vaccine is available?
no, i don't

Quote:

I'm stuck in phase II with no hope for phase III until my county of over a million people is down to less than 10 new cases a day.
and this is why

no baby steps are going to get you to this place

no "common sense" mitigation approaches are going to get MoCo schools open this year

two things - 1. it's an election year 2. outside of an increasingly significant minority, the US is insanely risk averse (i've felt this for a while, but the pandemic made it glaringly obvious)

the former is absolutely leveraging the latter

so my disagreement isn't that we aren't psychologically debilitated. it's that any steps taken in the current environment would have been "enough"

you don't think deep blue good hearted liberals in the DC area aren't doing "the right thing" when it comes to virus mitigation. and it means absolutely **** all.
Fairview
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Live look at initial distribution...

Another Doug
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I for one can't wait for the anti-Vaxxer facebook groups blaming the dems for not letting them have access to the Russian vaccine.
aggiemike02
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the Space Pen is awesome though.
Duncan Idaho
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I don't know enough about Putin's kids.

Is the one that got the shot his Ivanka or his Tiffany?
BlackGoldAg2011
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Sarduakar said:

deadbq03 said:

amercer said:

I will also say that Russians have a very different approach to engineering and manufacturing. In the west we spend a bunch of time on backup systems and redundancy. They just build everything not to fail.

Judging by our respective space programs I'm not sure which method is better.
I always liked the anecdote: the US space program spent millions of dollars designing pens that could write in zero gravity; the Russians just used pencils.


Graphite would clog air filters and float around in the cabin. And an independent person developed that "special " pen without government money and gave it to NASA
i love that the pencils caused real problems, because i was coming to post
"and when has Russian engineering's use of graphite rods ever caused a problem before"
without even realizing the pencils also caused problems.
Wheatables02
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The reason they were able to produce it so fast is because China told them the genetic modifications they used on the samples in their Wuhan Lab..
Detmersdislocatedshoulder
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Kind of feel like I have seen this movie

I am Legend

No thanks
Duncan Idaho
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Beware of Doug said:

I for one can't wait for the anti-Vaxxer facebook groups blaming the dems for not letting them have access to the Russian vaccine.

Russian trolls gotta troll for russia
torrid
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He must not like his daughter.
DTP02
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I feel like this "vaccine" is likely to prevent death in about 99.7% of people infected with COVID19, and that it will be even more effective in younger and healthier patients.
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