I seem to remember reading that private schools have an advantage because Title 9 rules aren't as strict or don't necessarily apply? Is that true?

Could it also be that private schools are able to give more "academic" scholarships?

I've always though it was the academic scholarship angle you mentioned.

As I understand it they have less restrictions when it comes to academic scholarships. With public institutions, any academic/merit based scholarship needs to be available to the general student body, this isn't the case with private schools.

Private schools generally do have more academic scholarships but I've never seen anyone really be able to solidify that there is an advantage in the end.

The last time this thread came up we looked at TCU's scholarship structure (TCU because guess why) and a couple of other schools and it was pretty clear it's still a more expensive venture because the academic scholarships large enough to get tuition down to state level required pretty darn high academic performance. Yet alone getting it down below state level. And academic performance that would have one receiving academic scholarships at a state school.

Title IX applies to any school that receives federal funding. Doubtful you'll find many a private schools that don't receive some sort of federal funding somewhere.

And even if Title IX didn't exist, the NCAA still has a sea of rules regarding scholarships that you wouldn't have an advantage in that realm because you got out of Title IX.

jkag89 said:

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As I understand it they have less restrictions when it comes to academic scholarships. With public institutions, any academic/merit based scholarship needs to be available to the general student body, this isn't the case with private schools.

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I don't know about other rules, but the NCAA requires that academic scholarships received by athletes be available to the general student body.

TXAggie2011 said:

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jkag89 said:

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As I understand it they have less restrictions when it comes to academic scholarships. With public institutions, any academic/merit based scholarship needs to be available to the general student body, this isn't the case with private schools.

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I don't know about other rules, but the NCAA requires that academic scholarships received by athletes be available to the general student body.

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Ok, then I misunderstood and hence don't have a clue where private schools have an advantage in offering additional aid in partial scholarship sports.

To many kids, it's not really a question of what their net cost of attendance will be, but, rather, which school appears to want them more. Consequently, a lot of kids will be swayed by the private school that combines athletic and academic scholarships to cover 70% of their costs, even if paying that 30% ends up costing them more than paying 75% of cost at a state school.

LSU has benefited from their in-state scholarship program that sets a very low threshold for academic scholarships for in-state students, but it's not a cure all. Georgia has a similar program, but the baseball program there has been stuck in a rut for quite a while now.

TXAggie2011 said:

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jkag89 said:

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As I understand it they have less restrictions when it comes to academic scholarships. With public institutions, any academic/merit based scholarship needs to be available to the general student body, this isn't the case with private schools.

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I don't know about other rules, but the NCAA requires that academic scholarships received by athletes be available to the general student body.

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And I think equally as importantly, athletes in order to receive an academic scholarship must fall within the qualifications of the general students who receive them so no giving one to an average student. Meaning, the better rated privates like Vandy likely aren't using academic money that way as not too many athletes can compete in the classroom. Now TCU on the other hand is much easier to get into so you might see a bit more of that.

So, seems the only "advantage" are schools that offer money to entice attendance....Arkansas has a similar "Lottery Money" program and it's very easy for a qualifying in state student to receive significant aid.

I live in KC and know it's significantly easier to get into KU/KSU and receive assistance than it is at MU. Seems most kids here are drawn to OSU, Arkansas, KU, and KSU because it's easier to get accepted and receive $$$

So what does Vandy and TCU sell kids to get them there? Can their families just afford it?

I disagree with this in baseball. I would wager that many of the student athletes easily qualify for some sort of academic assistance. It's not like you have to be a national merit scholar to do so. The private schools have an advantage in this area in some sports, moreso than others, if you ask me.

I could be wrong, but I also know that many schools bend over backwards to help get these athletes to campus, and if you are reasonably intelligent, you stand a good chance of landing a good aid package.

twk said:

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To many kids, it's not really a question of what their net cost of attendance will be, but, rather, which school appears to want them more. Consequently, a lot of kids will be swayed by the private school that combines athletic and academic scholarships to cover 70% of their costs, even if paying that 30% ends up costing them more than paying 75% of cost at a state school.

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Exactly. They use the Jos a bank sales method. Get a $40k per year education for $10k versus $15k per year education for $10k.

Aggieangler93 said:

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I disagree with this in baseball. I would wager that many of the student athletes easily qualify for some sort of academic assistance. It's not like you have to be a national merit scholar to do so. The private schools have an advantage in this area in some sports, moreso than others, if you ask me.

I could be wrong, but I also know that many schools bend over backwards to help get these athletes to campus, and if you are reasonably intelligent, you stand a good chance of landing a good aid package.

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The standards for academic scholarships are mostly easily available and they're mostly not plentiful and not easy to get, particularly the large scholarships.

9 times out of 10, or maybe even more, money isn't an issue for a kid wanting to play baseball at an elite level D-1 program. If money is an issue, and they have that kind of ability, they will sign a pro contract out of HS. The difference between what we can offer vs. a private school, LSU, or whoever, is going to be very negligible.

This came up last year (and maybe the year before) after losing to TCU. It certainly came up due to Luken Baker, despite the fact he clearly stated TCU simply did a better job recruiting him than we did.

If there is some sort of disadvantage we are at, RC and our administration should be actively trying to see what angles we can work to create our own advantages instead of complaining about it. For instance, maybe we can get a kid some FFA scholarship money he wouldn't be able to get elsewhere.

What can be easier at a private school and was can be more plentiful at a private school are financial need based scholarships.

But any need based financial aid an athlete receives at a private school counts against their sport's scholarship limit.


What is exempted are state government sponsored need based financial aid programs. And why I think this thread is mostly misplaced as to who might have an advantage out there.

themissinglink said:

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twk said:

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To many kids, it's not really a question of what their net cost of attendance will be, but, rather, which school appears to want them more. Consequently, a lot of kids will be swayed by the private school that combines athletic and academic scholarships to cover 70% of their costs, even if paying that 30% ends up costing them more than paying 75% of cost at a state school.

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Exactly. They use the Jos a bank sales method. Get a $40k per year education for $10k versus $15k per year education for $10k.

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That makes sense, but if TCU is convincing a kid their education is worth more than ours, we aren't doing a very good job.

With a 50% athletic scholarship, COA at A&M is $13,500.

We do have our own significant academic scholarship prorgams and there are plenty of stories of athletes who got some very nice academic scholarships while here at A&M.

That's what private schools are contending with in whatever mind game they might want to play about quality of education and cost.

You've got to get an athlete a pretty good academic scholarship to make the numbers comparable for a private school.

For TCU to match financials, and TCU isn't all that expensive for a private school, that's getting a kid 78% between athletics and academic, non-need based scholarships. And they'll need to get it higher if the kid receives an academic scholarship at A&M.

And ultimately, for public or private, convincing mom your school is best for their baby's brain power is just part of recruiting.

TXAggie2011 said:

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What can be easier at a private school and was can be more plentiful at a private school are financial need based scholarships.

But any need based financial aid an athlete receives at a private school counts against their sport's scholarship limit.


What is exempted are state government sponsored need based financial aid programs. And why I think this thread is mostly misplaced as to who might have an advantage out there.

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Pretty sure that's not accurate. I know that the Louisiana in-state scholarships are not need based, and I don't believe that the scholarship help we're talking about at private schools are entirely need based--it's academic merit (supposedly). That's why we aren't typically giving aid to our athletes beyond the athletic scholarship--because they don't qualify for the very limited academic scholarship help that we can offer. So, if you have a kid whose parents can afford to pay for travel team baseball, and who makes decent grades, they can often get "merit" scholarships at private schools, but won't get any additional assistance at A&M. At least that is what my understanding of the situation is.

Hop has said that Vandy and TCU have huge advantages due to their scholarships.

That's not an exhaustive list of what is exenpted from being counted, but is correct that state government need based scholarships are exempted. See below.

The point is financial need based scholarships at private schools would be counted against their scholarship limits unless it's connected to the state government some how.

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State government grants awarded based on a student's demonstrated financial need, regardless of whether the institution is responsible for selecting the recipient or determining the amount of aid, or providing matching or supplementary funds for a previously determined recipient, provided the aid is administered in accordance with the federal methodology for determining a student's financial need and has no rela- tionship to athletics ability. However, such aid is not exempt for purposes of determining a football or basketball student-athlete's counter status pursuant to Bylaw 15.5.1.1

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(15.02.4.4 of D-1 manual. You can go there for the full list of exempted scholarships.)

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I don't believe that the scholarship help we're talking about at private schools are entirely need based--it's academic merit (supposedly).

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We're talking about the existence of more non-athletic based scholarships at private schools.

I've said a few times my thoughts on any advantage given by academic scholarships---it's a tenuous "advantage" at best as far as I have ever looked at the qualifications and amount of them.

Many scholarships at private schools are purely need based, hence my pointing out those would count against scholarship limits.

Academic scholarships are exempted at private schools just as they are at public schools, but they're not all that easy to get. At TCU, you need to be a pretty high performing student to even get $18,000 (Dean's Scholarship Program.)

A lot of scholarships at private schools are connected to financial need, but they don't get an advantage there because they're not allowed to exempt them from the scholarship limits.

Bocephus said:

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Hop has said that Vandy and TCU have huge advantages due to their scholarships.

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All you have to do is ask yourself how Vandy can sign between 18 to 22 kids a year. The numbers don't add up.

And I'll add, having been through it, the privates can and do get creative.

Everyone tries to get creative in any scholarship equivalent sport. I've seen it through the eyes of a coach, I've seen it through the eyes of the athlete.

And Vanderbilt has 34 guys on the roster just like the Aggies do. When they do bring in a large class(es), it is due to roster turnover.

Part of that is top recruiting/talent schools, whether they be public or private, often have larger signing classes in part to more losses to MLB from their roster and recruiting classes. The Vanderbilts of the world often are watching 2,3,4 or more of their players go in the first two or three rounds, not even counting lost high school recruits.

Aggieangler93 said:

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I disagree with this in baseball. I would wager that many of the student athletes easily qualify for some sort of academic assistance. It's not like you have to be a national merit scholar to do so. The private schools have an advantage in this area in some sports, moreso than others, if you ask me.

I could be wrong, but I also know that many schools bend over backwards to help get these athletes to campus, and if you are reasonably intelligent, you stand a good chance of landing a good aid package.

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You may be right but it wasn't my experience in California. I do agree baseball players are some of the better student athletes but my point was specific to schools with very difficult acceptance requirements where an athlete still must compete with kids who are literally at the top of classes.

bay fan said:

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Aggieangler93 said:

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I disagree with this in baseball. I would wager that many of the student athletes easily qualify for some sort of academic assistance. It's not like you have to be a national merit scholar to do so. The private schools have an advantage in this area in some sports, moreso than others, if you ask me.

I could be wrong, but I also know that many schools bend over backwards to help get these athletes to campus, and if you are reasonably intelligent, you stand a good chance of landing a good aid package.

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You may be right but it wasn't my experience in California. I do agree baseball players are some of the better student athletes but my point was specific to schools with very difficult acceptance requirements where an athlete still must compete with kids who are literally at the top of classes.

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Friend at work had a kid play at UC Irvine. He told me that it's incredibly deficult to gain acceptance into the UC System, but baseball significantly helped his son.

A friend's son got a one year full academic scholarship to TCU. He was an average student but could throw low 90's. He was not dedicated, gained weight, was not on the roster and never played. He did not get the same academic scholarship the next year.

Now that is definitely true, assuming you meet the general criteria, a coach can get you in. You pretty much have to it the academic profile but then they turn away tons who do so it's a big deal. That doesn't get you an academic scholarship though.

Title IX is part of the Federal Civil Rights Act and effects all institutions equally...unless you're Baylor and just don't give a f&*k