Last year they were 17-16 and 61st in the NET. You are VASTLY underestimating how much their schedule is going to help their metrics. The Big 12 lost tu and got Arizona … it might be an even higher-rated league this year.

Sure, if they fall off a cliff and finish like 5 games under .500, it won't be Q1, but why would you think that will be the case? They just got what could end up being a q1 win tonight.

Hop's not around anymore so "fan support" isn't as big a talking point, but this game is another that craters the hopes of having big crowds for non-marquee games.

That's not Buzz-specific - it's something we've struggled with since Gillispie.

bobinator said:

---

I think this was a tricky first game and I'm surprised Buzz played it. Opening with a true road game against an opponent capable of beating you is bold. There's a reason practically nobody good ever does it.

We'll see where we are in a few weeks.

---

Yep. We could've opened with Lamar to get our feet wet and everyone would've been happy tonight lol

I'm sure when he scheduled it he wasnt banking on Phelps not being available

I'm not arguing he needs more minutes. Like I said, I'd be disappointed if they don't decrease by conference play.

Let the rotation get settled with Phelps and Wilcher (and hopefully an improved Jace Carter) and then we can have a discussion on Hef's minutes in the 24-25 season.

phatty26 said:

---

Bottom line it does matter but we love being 7-10 seed not 3-6. If you are a good team you win this game.

---

True, but in basketball it's waaay more nuanced. This game, in a vacuum, is probably a nothing game - a win would have been nice (weak Q1 win) but the loss is practically irrelevant to our resume, given the other games on our OOC schedule.

It sucks because we 100% should have won, and if it's a trend of things to come, it's a problem, but it's probably not.

Odds are we will be sitting at 9-4 or 10-3 in OOC and in a really good spot, metrics-wise, exactly like last year. But we had 4 Q3 losses last year, all in conference play, and that was garbage. THATS what killed us last year, not anything in November or December (except maybe the Memphis loss at home).

bobinator said:

---

I think this was a tricky first game and I'm surprised Buzz played it. Opening with a true road game against an opponent capable of beating you is bold. There's a reason practically nobody good ever does it.

We'll see where we are in a few weeks.

---

I don't think Buzz cares about losing these early games

Ohio State beating Texas by 13 late in the first half

With no Phelps and Manny not playing like he did to end last season, we didn't have anyone besides Wade to create offense, so if didn't have a good night shooting, of course we didn't win. Really liked what I saw from Payne. I think once we get Phelps back and everyone gels, this can be a solid squad.

TjgtAg08 said:

---

phatty26 said:

---

Bottom line it does matter but we love being 7-10 seed not 3-6. If you are a good team you win this game.

---

True, but in basketball it's waaay more nuanced. This game, in a vacuum, is probably a nothing game - a win would have been nice (weak Q1 win) but the loss is practically irrelevant to our resume, given the other games on our OOC schedule.

It sucks because we 100% should have won, and if it's a trend of things to come, it's a problem, but it's probably not.

Odds are we will be sitting at 9-4 or 10-3 in OOC and in a really good spot, metrics-wise, exactly like last year. But we had 4 Q3 losses last year, all in conference play, and that was garbage. THATS what killed us last year, not anything in November or December (except maybe the Memphis loss at home).

---

Yep.

I think I'd argue against that because Buzz probably does see some value in Hefner or he wouldn't be here. Now what that value is, I have no idea, and we definitely can't see it, but I think he thinks there's more value in having Hefner around then replacing him in the portal or whatever because we have seen plenty of other guys leave the program.

He's probably wrong, but he doesn't think he's wrong, so I don't think you can say he's not doing everything to be a contender any more than judging some of Turgeon and Kennedy's terrible point guard recruiting.

I don't know if that makes sense, but I think in his mind having Hefner on the team is better for the team than having someone else.

Disappointing loss. I thought the critical stretch was when we committed a few stupid fouls in a short time frame when we had the chance to hold them at bay with a double digit lead. There were also a couple of ticky tack calls by refs around that time, but we could have controlled a few of our fouls and we got sloppy.

Biggest disappointment for me besides the loss is seeing Manny yet again start the season like he didn't practice any basketball all offseason, just worked out. It won't be as much of an issue once we get Phelps back, but it will still be a problem if he doesn't play better than that.

Biggest positive was how good Payne looked this early.

Biggest surprise was how much Dockery not only played but was relied on to provide lead guard minutes and playmaking.

I think Texas is gonna be lucky to be a tournament team this year. That's a weird roster they've cobbled together.

I'm a huge basketball fan and didn't even know we had a game tonight. Maybe I should have. I've been in football mode.

bobinator said:

---

I think Texas is gonna be lucky to be a tournament team this year. That's a weird roster they've cobbled together.

---

Yep it's the Tre Johnson show

I think this is the only thing that I'm legitimately disappointed in tonight is we did not handle the officiating well at all. That's normally a thing we do okay with but you could tell our guys were extremely frustrated those last ten minutes.

I know we brought back a lot of guys but the dynamics of every team are different and tonight we did not handle that adversity well. But we'll get there.

BLSmith04 said:

---

With no Phelps and Manny not playing like he did to end last season, we didn't have anyone besides Wade to create offense, so if didn't have a good night shooting, of course we didn't win. Really liked what I saw from Payne. I think once we get Phelps back and everyone gels, this can be a solid squad.

---

Bingo. Same issue we ran into last year when Boots was hurt

Wade has to play hero ball, and I'm not just talking shooting. He had a bunch of assist tonight

We flat out didn't have any guard play tonight except for him

He's gotta know he's too important to foul out.

AggieCrew44 said:

---

BLSmith04 said:

---

With no Phelps and Manny not playing like he did to end last season, we didn't have anyone besides Wade to create offense, so if didn't have a good night shooting, of course we didn't win. Really liked what I saw from Payne. I think once we get Phelps back and everyone gels, this can be a solid squad.

---

Bingo. Same issue we ran into last year when Boots was hurt

Wade has to play hero ball, and I'm not just talking shooting. He had a bunch of assist tonight

We flat out didn't have any guard play tonight except for him

---

But Buzz didn't put any other guards in the game with Taylor; that is on Buzz not Taylor. Play the Mills kid if you don't like how Manny is playing but you need 2 guys in the game that handle the ball.

bobinator said:

---

He's gotta know he's too important to foul out.

---

How will he know that? We need to be running some sort of offense from last year. Clear out for Manny. High post with Solo. It is like we haven't had a practice yet. I am not complaining because Buzz's track record is awesome, but in his press conference, Buzz talked about getting rid of the lulls in the season, but we weren't ready to play and that's on Buzz.

czar_iv said:

---

AggieCrew44 said:

---

BLSmith04 said:

---

With no Phelps and Manny not playing like he did to end last season, we didn't have anyone besides Wade to create offense, so if didn't have a good night shooting, of course we didn't win. Really liked what I saw from Payne. I think once we get Phelps back and everyone gels, this can be a solid squad.

---

Bingo. Same issue we ran into last year when Boots was hurt

Wade has to play hero ball, and I'm not just talking shooting. He had a bunch of assist tonight

We flat out didn't have any guard play tonight except for him

---

But Buzz didn't put any other guards in the game with Taylor; that is on Buzz not Taylor. Play the Mills kid if you don't like how Manny is playing but you need 2 guys in the game that handle the ball.

---

I think it's highly likely if he could help he would've played

AggieCrew44 said:

---

czar_iv said:

---

AggieCrew44 said:

---

BLSmith04 said:

---

With no Phelps and Manny not playing like he did to end last season, we didn't have anyone besides Wade to create offense, so if didn't have a good night shooting, of course we didn't win. Really liked what I saw from Payne. I think once we get Phelps back and everyone gels, this can be a solid squad.

---

Bingo. Same issue we ran into last year when Boots was hurt

Wade has to play hero ball, and I'm not just talking shooting. He had a bunch of assist tonight

We flat out didn't have any guard play tonight except for him

---

But Buzz didn't put any other guards in the game with Taylor; that is on Buzz not Taylor. Play the Mills kid if you don't like how Manny is playing but you need 2 guys in the game that handle the ball.

---

I think it's highly likely if he could help he would've played

---

But Carter is a better choice? Ugh I don't see it

724 posts on a bball board game thread for the first game might be a record

I wonder if manny struggles with confidence and the mental side of the game. Does he need to know he is a starter and big minute guy in order to relax and play his game. We've seen the manny we saw tonight most of his time here other than the stretch at the end of last year when we went all in with him. It is a frustrating mystery.

czar_iv said:

---

bobinator said:

---

He's gotta know he's too important to foul out.

---

How will he know that? We need to be running some sort of offense from last year. Clear out for Manny. High post with Solo. It is like we haven't had a practice yet. I am not complaining because Buzz's track record is awesome, but in his press conference, Buzz talked about getting rid of the lulls in the season, but we weren't ready to play and that's on Buzz.

---

It's likely that we actually haven't had a practice yet. Buzz has admitted that he doesn't practice game situations before the season. Buzz teams always start slow and look lost at times.

Just watching the first 10 minutes, there's a lot of talent to work with to compliment the core of the team. No idea how we lost this game. ESPN just crapped out on me and I frankly don't care to finish tonight. But we have a legitimate big man again. I liked what I saw out of Dockery. Wilsher has a good stroke. We have all the pieces we need. We will be fine. Will probably lose 3-5 more before conference because that's the Buzz way. But we will lock in after New Year.

I think it's pretty clear that he does.

Will be interesting to see if we ever see the confident manny for long stretches this year or not.

Heineken-Ashi said:

---

I'm a huge basketball fan and didn't even know we had a game tonight. Maybe I should have. I've been in football mode.

---

It's because it's hot as balls, still. Doesn't feel like basketball weather!

bg92 said:

---

Will be interesting to see if we ever see the confident manny for long stretches this year or not.

---

After not hearing any glowing reports about his offseason improvement and watching him scuffle around in this game, the best I can hope for is that having a second ball handler and playmaker in Phelps will take the pressure off Manny and help him perform better.

Crapping the bed on the road against a unranked opponent. Wish I was surprised but this is how we always seem to start every season under Buzz