UTSA 27, Gonzaga 28 Halftime

4,904 Views | 48 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by wacarnolds
Pumpkinhead
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UT-Arlington (my thread title is bad, UTA not UTSA, sorry for that) hanging in there with Zags to halftime, and Gonzaga even has Tillie back.
Ags #1
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Fire buzz go hire uta coach
mikesyracuse1
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I'm watching now. UT Arlington' down 6 with 8 minutes left. Their guards have been creating some nice movement and keeping them in the game to this point.

Mike Syracuse1
halfastros81
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At this point in time UTA is better than A & M. They are a good team. Check back in 1-2 yrs... I don't think that will be the case.

UTA May still be good but A & M will be better.
Gap
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Final:
Gonzaga 72
UTA 66
Pumpkinhead
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halfastros81 said:

At this point in time UTA is better than A & M. They are a good team. Check back in 1-2 yrs... I don't think that will be the case.

UTA May still be good but A & M will be better.
Hopefully we develop over the next few months that we would be a better team than UTA at some point this season. There is enough talent on the current roster to work with to accomplish that.
Proposition Joe
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I just don't really get how we got here. I get a trust in Buzz and the process and all that jazz, but is this a case of him just deciding to pass on some insta-fixes in order to go get multi-year guys?

I understand the benefit of that, but in the current college hoops client I would hope he'd be willing to sprinkle in a few stop-gap pieces.

I was a pretty big Billy Kennedy critic, but the talent level shouldn't be this low IMO. A lot of people kind of whistling past the graveyard on what we've seen the last two games.

This Troy team tonight lost by 40 @ a mediocre Indiana team... Would really like to see us with a comfortable win tonight to ease some of the worry that we aren't 2-3 conference win bad this year.
Isaih Smollett
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Our best players (Nebo, Flagg, Mitchell) really aren't that bad from a talent perspective
aggiejohn
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We got here because the entire organization needed an enema. There was a "dead man walking" feel from top to bottom, but thankfully Buzz is well-equipped to rebuild things physically/mentally/emotionally but it'll take a little time.

I don't think a band-aid approach is what we as a fan base would have wanted, nor do I believe that is something Buzz knows how to do.
Proposition Joe
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And it's still early so I may be over-worrying, but "band-aiding" with a transfer doesn't have to alter the long-term strategy by Buzz. Yeah maybe a 4-year guy gets a little less playing time early, but it's offset by the exposure of being relevant for that season.

I dunno... I didn't expect to beat Gonzaga and really just hoped to hang around with Gonzaga. But Gonzaga dismantled us like a D2 school... in College Station.

Hopefully Buzz gets Starks back and Nebo continues to improve, because the last week we looked less talented on the court than we have in a long, long time.
Pumpkinhead
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I didn't expect to beat Gonzaga, but I was hopeful we were not going to get beat like a drum for 30 points, so that was disappointing the level of the beating.

That said, I get that it is a new system, even experienced guys like Flagg are being asked to do stuff they are not used to doing - like trying to run the offense through Flagg instead of him playing the role of opportunistic wing, Jackson is a JUCO who has to adapt to the D1 level of play, Buzz had like 4 freshman out there when Zags started their big first half run, etc. I get all that.

But Buzz still has a core of decent juniors/seniors on this team in Nebo, Flagg, Mitchell, Chandler, Starks (hopefully) plus some talented fish (Gordon certainly is). So, I'm not ready to just concede that this season is doomed to 'suck'. I still don't see why, on paper, we can't at least be fighting for an NIT bid this year.

Also, if this season sucks, is super bad, that would make me nervous that next season would be just as bad. You are losing Mitchell and Nebo for sure and the freshman for next year that Buzz signed don't include any bigs so Nebo particularly...frankly he is probably better than any JUCO big Buzz might be able to pick up for next season.

Even Buzz himself said that the current situation that he inherited at Texas A&M was not as bad as what he stepped into at Virginia Tech. He said it was somewhere 'in the middle' between not as good as Marquette (where Buzz made NCAA in his first year) but better than V-Tech (where they were really bad their first year). So, if we go like 14-18 this season and at or near bottom of the SEC, that is going to be disappointing to me with the talent on the present roster that Buzz has.



Ag_EE_88
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The thing that concerns me the most is that Pumpkinhead is seemingly concerned....
bobinator
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I look at it this way, a lot of us had said for a long time that the biggest problem with Kennedy's teams was a complete lack of fundamental basketball. Horrible screen setting, spacing, etc.

Buzz is going to build from the fundamentals up. So basically everyone is having to go back to the beginning and learn to play the way that Buzz wants them to play. That, I assume, is the reason that our players that we know are petty good like Mitchell and Flagg, are currently struggling.

He's not going to skip any steps just to beat these bad non-conference teams by more or to keep it close against a team like Gonzaga, we're going to learn it one way, the right way. So that might take some time and it might be a hideous process at times.

But I still think we could be a decent team by the end of the year.

One thing is for sure though, if Flagg doesn't play better than he did against Gonzaga we're absolutely screwed.
Ag_EE_88
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bobinator said:

I look at it this way, a lot of us had said for a long time that the biggest problem with Kennedy's teams was a complete lack of fundamental basketball. Horrible screen setting, spacing, etc.

Buzz is going to build from the fundamentals up. So basically everyone is having to go back to the beginning and learn to play the way that Buzz wants them to play. That, I assume, is the reason that our players that we know are petty good like Mitchell and Flagg, are currently struggling.

He's not going to skip any steps just to beat these bad non-conference teams by more or to keep it close against a team like Gonzaga, we're going to learn it one way, the right way. So that might take some time and it might be a hideous process at times.

But I still think we could be a decent team by the end of the year.

One thing is for sure though, if Flagg doesn't play better than he did against Gonzaga we're absolutely screwed.


And since Buzz is building from the ground up, I'm guessing offense is the last thing he is focusing on. At least that's what I'm hoping.
bobinator
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Yeah, he seems to have put in a basic framework but we don't run a lot of set plays.

But offense is probably going to be a problem all year because we're REALLY easy to defend right now. Maybe Starks or McNeilly changes it up, but there's only so much you can do with a team that can't shoot, can't score on the low block and can't finish in traffic.
Proposition Joe
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bobinator said:

I look at it this way, a lot of us had said for a long time that the biggest problem with Kennedy's teams was a complete lack of fundamental basketball. Horrible screen setting, spacing, etc.

Buzz is going to build from the fundamentals up. So basically everyone is having to go back to the beginning and learn to play the way that Buzz wants them to play. That, I assume, is the reason that our players that we know are petty good like Mitchell and Flagg, are currently struggling.

He's not going to skip any steps just to beat these bad non-conference teams by more or to keep it close against a team like Gonzaga, we're going to learn it one way, the right way. So that might take some time and it might be a hideous process at times.

But I still think we could be a decent team by the end of the year.

One thing is for sure though, if Flagg doesn't play better than he did against Gonzaga we're absolutely screwed.

Yeah I think ultimately most of us hated the lack of basics under Kennedy, but were happy with the talent recruited.

I don't know enough about Buzz' recruiting at Marquette and Virginia Tech, but simply from the "going to do this my way" and the type of rebuilds he's had and what we saw on the court this last week it worries me a bit that he's a coach that doesn't make much of an effort to land the blue chip guys unless they fit "his system", which I just don't think is a recipe for any kind of team that can compete on the national (Sweet 16) level save for once in a blue moon when a multi-year guy really blossoms into a stud (Blackshear).

I could be entirely off-base with that though. Just found it odd that there wasn't any semblance of a recruiting bump or high profile transfer with his hire yet we're looking pretty devoid of legit talent.
bobinator
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Recruiting bumps really take a whole cycle in basketball, but I'm not that worried about the recruiting.

Kennedy's recruiting was weird. We'd sign a big class that was pretty good, and then we'd sign noone for like two years. In 2018, we literally didn't sign a single freshman. You can't built a program like that.

I've said for a while though that the recipe for us is to recruit to a system. Not necessarily an offensive or defensive system, it can even just be a mentality, but recruit the guys that you think are going to fit. Build up those players so that they're solid contributors as sophomores and juniors, and then be in position to capitalize when you do land a real stud player as either a big time freshman or transfer.

We aren't going to sign a bunch of 4 and 5 star guys every year. Every good team we've ever had was built on a core of 3 and low 4 star players and then our best teams were when we added some exceptional talent to that core.
Pumpkinhead
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bobinator said:

I look at it this way, a lot of us had said for a long time that the biggest problem with Kennedy's teams was a complete lack of fundamental basketball. Horrible screen setting, spacing, etc.

Buzz is going to build from the fundamentals up. So basically everyone is having to go back to the beginning and learn to play the way that Buzz wants them to play. That, I assume, is the reason that our players that we know are petty good like Mitchell and Flagg, are currently struggling.

He's not going to skip any steps just to beat these bad non-conference teams by more or to keep it close against a team like Gonzaga, we're going to learn it one way, the right way. So that might take some time and it might be a hideous process at times.

But I still think we could be a decent team by the end of the year.

One thing is for sure though, if Flagg doesn't play better than he did against Gonzaga we're absolutely screwed.
And I'd be very pleased with that. I expect/expected a bumpy road early, but I would be disappointed if we just flat out 'sucked' the entirety of the year. There is enough talent on this team that I don't see why we couldn't be a dangerous/decent team in February say fighting for an NIT bid.

halfastros81
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Quote:


Quote:

halfastros81 said:

At this point in time UTA is better than A & M. They are a good team. Check back in 1-2 yrs... I don't think that will be the case.

UTA May still be good but A & M will be better.

Hopefully we develop over the next few months that we would be a better team than UTA at some point this season. There is enough talent on the current roster to work with to accomplish that.

Maybe. My gut says they have length that we don't have and that's pretty difficult to address in season. There's a pretty healthy gap right now. I know transitive properties don't apply but they competed all game long with Gonzaga and A&M did not. I agree the gap will narrow considerably over the course of the season as our guys learn how to play Buzzball more effectively
Pumpkinhead
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Buzz was absolutely interested in both Blackshear and Quentin Grimes for this season, both who would have been talented 'one-and-done' pieces for his Year 1. He just didn't close either of them.
bobinator
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Eh, I wouldn't worry much about trying to compare the games. I didn't watch the game but from the box score the biggest difference is that UTA made a bunch of threes despite being a terrible three point shooting team all year.

Our length shouldn't be that big of a problem most of the time, especially defensively. But we do need to rebound as a team a lot better and the lack of a low post threat on offense is really limiting.
mazag08
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What led to this?

1. 2018 - no freshmen recruited. In other words, we have no sophomores on the team.
2. Current players lack fundamentals. Flagg literally can't dribble which has led to many fast breaks the other way. Chandler sometimes can dribble, but is blind to what is and isnt a realistic shot to take.. which has led to many fast breaks the other way. Mitchell seems to be lost as he tries to figure out this new system. The three healthy guys we need to depend on are nowhere close due to lack of basic fundamentals.
3. Injuries / suspension. Our best recruit and only dynamic returning backcourt piece are both on the bench.
4. Inexperience. Even if everyone was healthy, we have like 5 guys who have played high level D-1 basketball. And our new guys aren't Kentucky types. Theyre the type that aren't major impact guys at most programs until year 2 or 3.
5. No shooters. We have guys who can shoot, but we have nobody we can absolutely depend on to shoot.
6. Lack of size. We're actually fine here, but the depth is lacking.
7. Establishing a long term culture. You don't scrap the long term goals for short term fixes. Jimbo doesn't do it and you shouldn't expect Buzz to do it.

Best thing to do is hunker down, enjoy the ride, don't get too high or too low, and hope for the best. It will be worth it down the road.
greg.w.h
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I hope each of those is getting attention. I don't expect them fixed this year. I expect the players will recognize their need for additional coaching and procure it. And maybe not from an AAU coach/handler...
HotardRat
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mazag08 said:

What led to this?

1. 2018 - no freshmen recruited. In other words, we have no sophomores on the team.
2. Current players lack fundamentals. Flagg literally can't dribble which has led to many fast breaks the other way. Chandler sometimes can dribble, but is blind to what is and isnt a realistic shot to take.. which has led to many fast breaks the other way. Mitchell seems to be lost as he tries to figure out this new system. The three healthy guys we need to depend on are nowhere close due to lack of basic fundamentals.
3. Injuries / suspension. Our best recruit and only dynamic returning backcourt piece are both on the bench.
4. Inexperience. Even if everyone was healthy, we have like 5 guys who have played high level D-1 basketball. And our new guys aren't Kentucky types. Theyre the type that aren't major impact guys at most programs until year 2 or 3.
5. No shooters. We have guys who can shoot, but we have nobody we can absolutely depend on to shoot.
6. Lack of size. We're actually fine here, but the depth is lacking.
7. Establishing a long term culture. You don't scrap the long term goals for short term fixes. Jimbo doesn't do it and you shouldn't expect Buzz to do it.

Best thing to do is hunker down, enjoy the ride, don't get too high or too low, and hope for the best. It will be worth it down the road.

This is pretty nails. I cringe at the thought of what this team would've been like if BK was still here. 0 wins in conference play would've been at least on the table.
greg.w.h
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If BCG's approach to in-game coaching is at all similar to Buzz's, I expect to see players getting minutes that might look like BK's odd rotation choices. But mainly to get players to listen and implement coaching and the game plan.

I don't intend this year to be frustrated when that happens. I feel the same on depth/injuries. Can't fix it and it will result in down rotation players getting a lot of PT.

I'll note I think Starks had earned the lead dog position among the guards and chose not to lead. I hope he corrects this. I hope we don't have to talk about him transferring because of it. I hope...
bobinator
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I dunno, I actually think at this point in the season we'd be significantly better if BK was coach, but that's the whole reason he was fired. We weren't building for sustained success.
Pumpkinhead
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HotardRat said:

mazag08 said:

What led to this?

1. 2018 - no freshmen recruited. In other words, we have no sophomores on the team.
2. Current players lack fundamentals. Flagg literally can't dribble which has led to many fast breaks the other way. Chandler sometimes can dribble, but is blind to what is and isnt a realistic shot to take.. which has led to many fast breaks the other way. Mitchell seems to be lost as he tries to figure out this new system. The three healthy guys we need to depend on are nowhere close due to lack of basic fundamentals.
3. Injuries / suspension. Our best recruit and only dynamic returning backcourt piece are both on the bench.
4. Inexperience. Even if everyone was healthy, we have like 5 guys who have played high level D-1 basketball. And our new guys aren't Kentucky types. Theyre the type that aren't major impact guys at most programs until year 2 or 3.
5. No shooters. We have guys who can shoot, but we have nobody we can absolutely depend on to shoot.
6. Lack of size. We're actually fine here, but the depth is lacking.
7. Establishing a long term culture. You don't scrap the long term goals for short term fixes. Jimbo doesn't do it and you shouldn't expect Buzz to do it.

Best thing to do is hunker down, enjoy the ride, don't get too high or too low, and hope for the best. It will be worth it down the road.

This is pretty nails. I cringe at the thought of what this team would've been like if BK was still here. 0 wins in conference play would've been at least on the table.
What? 0 wins? Last year's roster was arguably worse than this years - IMO it was. And last year's team went 6-12 in the SEC.

Look, I agree with much of what mazag08 posted above, but I still don't see why this team can't at least win a couple more games than last year's team did. On paper, the roster this season looks better than last season. And Buzz is a better coach. And yes, it should take some growing pains but that doesn't mean we have to be just flat out bad all year long. And Buzz didn't sound like he thought he'd inherited a mess like what he stepped into at V-Tech.

So I'm not buying into this 'hunker down while we just suck for a year or two' thought process. I expect us to get better over the course of the season in Year 1, ultimately have a bit better record than last year's team, and get a surprise win or two on somebody. That is what I would expect with this roster.
wacarnolds
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Quote:

I don't know enough about Buzz' recruiting at Marquette and Virginia Tech, but simply from the "going to do this my way" and the type of rebuilds he's had and what we saw on the court this last week it worries me a bit that he's a coach that doesn't make much of an effort to land the blue chip guys unless they fit "his system", which I just don't think is a recipe for any kind of team that can compete on the national (Sweet 16) level save for once in a blue moon when a multi-year guy really blossoms into a stud (Blackshear).
maybe start paying attention to reality and your worries will go away.

Buzz has 4 sweet 16 appearances in the past 10 years.
mazag08
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My post was never intended as as a "hunker down while we suck for two years" post. I fully expect the early season issues and umcortableness in the system to get worked out and this team to get better and better. I think we will be dangerous for anyone on the schedule in February.

But I did intend to post that you should "hope for the best", because a team like this one has to have full buy in, or issues could bleed into next year.
EXCELL
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Season in ONE word ............ turnovers.
EliteZags
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halfastros81 said:

At this point in time UTA is better than A & M. They are a good team. Check back in 1-2 yrs... I don't think that will be the case.

UTA May still be good but A & M will be better.

transitive conclusions much? UTA played well but is absolutely not a better team, they play 1 guy over 6'7 and shoot under 40% as a team
halfastros81
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Agree to disagree and I stated specifically that transitive laws do not apply. Eyeballs do. They are a more competitive team at this point. I think A & M will get more competitive as the yr goes on but I think we'd lose to UTA if we played them now.

Barely slipped by Troy at home. To me that says a lot. Harvard is going to be a problem imo.
SW AG80
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I know this thread began before our game against Troy, but it sounds like Gordon could be out for an extended period of time. That really hurts. When is McNeilley supposed to be back?
Maroon Dawn
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We're God awful and this season is already a lost cause rebuilding year

This isn't news to anyone who has seen us play

I know we're all sick to death of "wait till next year" but there's simply no other choice
bobinator
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A lost cause rebuilding year? We've played FOUR GAMES.
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