GE said:

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free_mhayden said:

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GE said:

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expresswrittenconsent said:

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Double Diamond said:

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Comparing Bob Huggins off year to Billy Kennedy's.

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It's hilarious. Good coaches can and will have bad years. Bad coaches can and will have good years. Billy Kennedy is a bad coach. His 2/8 (ncaa trips) here and 3/20 for his career say so. All of the excuses made for him say so. His sub 0.500 conf record after 8 yrs says so.
No expertise is needed to correctly judge Billy Kennedys (or Bob Huggins) coaching ability.

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At a school on the level of Centenary and Southeastern Louisiana, is success defined by NCAA tournament appearances?

What about a school like Murray State? When you have to win the conference tournament to make it to the NCAA tournament, can you call a season successful in which you won the regular season but got upset in the tournament?

Your 2/8 statistic and commentary on what he has done here is 100% valid and is the primary reason he shouldn't be retained after the season. It just doesn't seem like the results support that he was a "bad coach" in the context of those three previous schools. His teams won four conference championships in the 13 years before he got here, he took SE LA to their only NCAA tournament ever, and his 2010 Murray State team had the first OVC NCAAT victory since 1989.

Was he the best candidate available at the time he was hired? No.
Did his previous results indicate he was a bad coach? Also no.

Edit: i didn't choose the crying icon intentionally but it may be fitting given what happened last night.

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If you can't decide whether to judge based on records or tournament appearances at the mid-major schools, it helps simply to look at what other coaches have done at that school. A couple of coaches won at 70%+ clip. Almost all (including Kennedy) won at a 60%+ clip.

Here are the last 8 Murray State head coaches dating back to 1985:


Matt McMahon (1 tournament in 3 years, currently 13-2)
Steve Prohm (1 tournament in 4 years... and working on his 3rd in 4 years at his new major conference school)
Billy Kennedy (1 tournament in 5 years)
Mick Cronin (2 tournaments in 3 years)
Tevester Anderson (2 tournaments in 5 years)
Mark Gottfried (2 tournaments in 3 years)
Scott Edgar (2 tournament in 4 years)
Steve Newton (4 tournaments in 7 years)


So dating back to 1985 all the coaches won at least 60% of their games... But only one coach made the NCAA Tournament less than 25% of the time.

Billy Kennedy was arguably one of the worst coaches at Murray State since 1985.

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Another way of saying what you're saying is Billy Kennedy's teams failed to win the conference tournament 4 out of 5 years.

We can get into specifics if you would like but here is the link to the wikipedia page on Murray State.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_State_Racers_men%27s_basketball

• You'll see that starting with Newton turning it around they finished first or second in conference every year except for 1
• until Anderson who finished 1st, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, winning the conference tourney twice.
• Cronin then took over and went 2nd, 2nd, 1st and then left, winning conference tourney twice.
• Kennedy took over Cronin's team which returned just 1 of its top 6 and 2 of its top 8 players and finished 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 1st, winning the conference tournament once.
• Prohm took over Kennedy's team which returned 3 of its top 6 and 5 of its top 8 players and finished 1st, 1st, 1st, and 1st with one conference tournament win.

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Yes please get into specifics. You just spent 3000 words trying (and failing) to prove that BK wasnt the worst coach at Murray State in the last 30 yrs while admitting that he has done a bad enough job here that he unquestionably deserves to be fired. Really love where you try and claim that all he failed to do at Murray was win the conf tourney as if Hayden didnt previously spell out how every single coach not named Billy Kennedy managed to do JUST that at a MUCH higher rate. So typical of the decade of excuse making for BK here at A&M. When the guy is failing, change the metrics so you can spin something he is good at.

GE said:

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free_mhayden said:

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GE said:

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expresswrittenconsent said:

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Double Diamond said:

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Comparing Bob Huggins off year to Billy Kennedy's.

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It's hilarious. Good coaches can and will have bad years. Bad coaches can and will have good years. Billy Kennedy is a bad coach. His 2/8 (ncaa trips) here and 3/20 for his career say so. All of the excuses made for him say so. His sub 0.500 conf record after 8 yrs says so.
No expertise is needed to correctly judge Billy Kennedys (or Bob Huggins) coaching ability.

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At a school on the level of Centenary and Southeastern Louisiana, is success defined by NCAA tournament appearances?

What about a school like Murray State? When you have to win the conference tournament to make it to the NCAA tournament, can you call a season successful in which you won the regular season but got upset in the tournament?

Your 2/8 statistic and commentary on what he has done here is 100% valid and is the primary reason he shouldn't be retained after the season. It just doesn't seem like the results support that he was a "bad coach" in the context of those three previous schools. His teams won four conference championships in the 13 years before he got here, he took SE LA to their only NCAA tournament ever, and his 2010 Murray State team had the first OVC NCAAT victory since 1989.

Was he the best candidate available at the time he was hired? No.
Did his previous results indicate he was a bad coach? Also no.

Edit: i didn't choose the crying icon intentionally but it may be fitting given what happened last night.

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If you can't decide whether to judge based on records or tournament appearances at the mid-major schools, it helps simply to look at what other coaches have done at that school. A couple of coaches won at 70%+ clip. Almost all (including Kennedy) won at a 60%+ clip.

Here are the last 8 Murray State head coaches dating back to 1985:


Matt McMahon (1 tournament in 3 years, currently 13-2)
Steve Prohm (1 tournament in 4 years... and working on his 3rd in 4 years at his new major conference school)
Billy Kennedy (1 tournament in 5 years)
Mick Cronin (2 tournaments in 3 years)
Tevester Anderson (2 tournaments in 5 years)
Mark Gottfried (2 tournaments in 3 years)
Scott Edgar (2 tournament in 4 years)
Steve Newton (4 tournaments in 7 years)


So dating back to 1985 all the coaches won at least 60% of their games... But only one coach made the NCAA Tournament less than 25% of the time.

Billy Kennedy was arguably one of the worst coaches at Murray State since 1985.

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Another way of saying what you're saying is Billy Kennedy's teams failed to win the conference tournament 4 out of 5 years.

We can get into specifics if you would like but here is the link to the wikipedia page on Murray State.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_State_Racers_men%27s_basketball

• You'll see that starting with Newton turning it around they finished first or second in conference every year except for 1
• until Anderson who finished 1st, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, winning the conference tourney twice.
• Cronin then took over and went 2nd, 2nd, 1st and then left, winning conference tourney twice.
• Kennedy took over Cronin's team which returned just 1 of its top 6 and 2 of its top 8 players and finished 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 1st, winning the conference tournament once.
• Prohm took over Kennedy's team which returned 3 of its top 6 and 5 of its top 8 players and finished 1st, 1st, 1st, and 1st with one conference tournament win.

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So we're not going to gauge him by NCAA Tournament appearances... and we're not going to gauge him by overall winning %... We're instead going to look at conference standings where Kennedy.... didn't do any better than any of his predecessors?

I'm not saying Kennedy is the worst coach of all time, but at Murray State dating back to 1985 the only case you can make for him is 1 good season -- as a whole his performance was below that of his predecessors and successors.

Read: What he did at Murray State really wasn't very impressive... It was par for the course or worse at that school.

I'm stickin' with the Frankenstein approach.

I think that everybody on these posts gets it that we need a new coach. But all parties are in a difficult spot due to the illness. The school has to be sensitive with how they deal with this because if this is not handled right we will see headlines "School fires coach with debilitating illness that has been to the Sweet 16 2 times in the last 4 years which is as many times as the school has been in the previous 60 years." Also, put yourself in BK's spot. I cant imagine what he or his family is going thru. I have a lot of respect for the way hat the coach has handled himself, but who is going to hire him if he were let go. That said, we need a new direction in basketball. All parties need to get together and work out a plan to keep him in the administration and lets find a new coach. But lets let the season play out. There is nothing to gain by firing him before the season ends. Its not like we are going to make some miracle run into any tournament. I am confident that Woodward is working on a plan now to get a new coach. But we are not a big time basketball school with a lot of tradition so we are not likely to get someone like a Musselman, Billy Donovan, or the likes. The end of this season cannot get here fast enough. I'm ready for baseball.

free_mhayden said:

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GE said:

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free_mhayden said:

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GE said:

---

expresswrittenconsent said:

---

Double Diamond said:

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Comparing Bob Huggins off year to Billy Kennedy's.

---

It's hilarious. Good coaches can and will have bad years. Bad coaches can and will have good years. Billy Kennedy is a bad coach. His 2/8 (ncaa trips) here and 3/20 for his career say so. All of the excuses made for him say so. His sub 0.500 conf record after 8 yrs says so.
No expertise is needed to correctly judge Billy Kennedys (or Bob Huggins) coaching ability.

---

At a school on the level of Centenary and Southeastern Louisiana, is success defined by NCAA tournament appearances?

What about a school like Murray State? When you have to win the conference tournament to make it to the NCAA tournament, can you call a season successful in which you won the regular season but got upset in the tournament?

Your 2/8 statistic and commentary on what he has done here is 100% valid and is the primary reason he shouldn't be retained after the season. It just doesn't seem like the results support that he was a "bad coach" in the context of those three previous schools. His teams won four conference championships in the 13 years before he got here, he took SE LA to their only NCAA tournament ever, and his 2010 Murray State team had the first OVC NCAAT victory since 1989.

Was he the best candidate available at the time he was hired? No.
Did his previous results indicate he was a bad coach? Also no.

Edit: i didn't choose the crying icon intentionally but it may be fitting given what happened last night.

---

If you can't decide whether to judge based on records or tournament appearances at the mid-major schools, it helps simply to look at what other coaches have done at that school. A couple of coaches won at 70%+ clip. Almost all (including Kennedy) won at a 60%+ clip.

Here are the last 8 Murray State head coaches dating back to 1985:


Matt McMahon (1 tournament in 3 years, currently 13-2)
Steve Prohm (1 tournament in 4 years... and working on his 3rd in 4 years at his new major conference school)
Billy Kennedy (1 tournament in 5 years)
Mick Cronin (2 tournaments in 3 years)
Tevester Anderson (2 tournaments in 5 years)
Mark Gottfried (2 tournaments in 3 years)
Scott Edgar (2 tournament in 4 years)
Steve Newton (4 tournaments in 7 years)


So dating back to 1985 all the coaches won at least 60% of their games... But only one coach made the NCAA Tournament less than 25% of the time.

Billy Kennedy was arguably one of the worst coaches at Murray State since 1985.

---

Another way of saying what you're saying is Billy Kennedy's teams failed to win the conference tournament 4 out of 5 years.

We can get into specifics if you would like but here is the link to the wikipedia page on Murray State.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_State_Racers_men%27s_basketball

• You'll see that starting with Newton turning it around they finished first or second in conference every year except for 1
• until Anderson who finished 1st, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, winning the conference tourney twice.
• Cronin then took over and went 2nd, 2nd, 1st and then left, winning conference tourney twice.
• Kennedy took over Cronin's team which returned just 1 of its top 6 and 2 of its top 8 players and finished 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 1st, winning the conference tournament once.
• Prohm took over Kennedy's team which returned 3 of its top 6 and 5 of its top 8 players and finished 1st, 1st, 1st, and 1st with one conference tournament win.

---

So we're not going to gauge him by NCAA Tournament appearances... and we're not going to gauge him by overall winning %... We're instead going to look at conference standings where Kennedy.... didn't do any better than any of his predecessors?

I'm not saying Kennedy is the worst coach of all time, but at Murray State dating back to 1985 the only case you can make for him is 1 good season -- as a whole his performance was below that of his predecessors and successors.

Read: What he did at Murray State really wasn't very impressive... It was par for the course or worse at that school.

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The point is that before he was hired based on his previous record that none of you would have called him a bad coach. You would have pointed to maybe 20 guys would have rather hired but that is not the same thing. I wasn't reading TA at the time so fill me in if I'm wrong, but I don't remember anyone I talked to back then saying he was a bad coach, just some questioned why we were reaching all the way down to Murray State for a replacement.

Mid-major hires often smell like BK. It's like the Forest Gump box of chocolates.

Why would any decent coach want the job? Back in the day we packed G. Rollie White to the rafters to watch some good hoops. Seems like it the same 5000 people who go to Reed. Sad attendance for a school with 60,000 students. Not sure what can be done to get seats in the stands. May not be just winning.

Choosing to blame the student body for not creating success is not addressing any visible problem and is focused on a mere symptom.

Or put differently: while better fan support improves team play, sloppy play isn't fixed by screaming fans unless it results in fixing the sloppy play. I've literally never seen screaming fans fix sloppy play. Have you?

I love the "back in my day" false memories.

Obviously you weren't there

G Rollie rocked often. Not every game but it was packed for quality opponents and blood rivals

The student body was much much smaller so on a percentage basis it's even more dramatically evident

EXCELL said:

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Obviously you weren't there

G Rollie rocked often. Not every game but it was packed for quality opponents and blood rivals

The student body was much much smaller so on a percentage basis it's even more dramatically evident

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During "the day" I remember, G Rollie was a gym, but electric atmosphere for big games, smu, tcu were antiseptic atmospheres, Baylor had a barn, but a great atmosphere as well; Gregory certainly a gym, but no atmosphere; Tech a too big barn arena with no noise (similar to Bu, but without crowds and atmosphere; Arky, well BARNhill, what dya expect and NO crowds; Rice had a curtain with gymnasts practicing behind it during games. Good times

Anybody is better than this thief

JaySugar said:

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There are at least 125 coaches (that we could get) that are better than Kennedy

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Animal72 said:

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Why would any decent coach want the job? Back in the day we packed G. Rollie White to the rafters to watch some good hoops. Seems like it the same 5000 people who go to Reed. Sad attendance for a school with 60,000 students. Not sure what can be done to get seats in the stands. May not be just winning.

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Attendance was 10K and over for BCG and Turge on average. Less during holidays. More during conference.


This is a great job in an improving conference. We have the richest AD in the nation. Good recruiting base in Houston, DFW.

We could BUY Musselmen or Beard. lol @ being outbid by tceh!

There's also more to do than watch paint dry for today's student. That's great that we used to have good support...even under Billy and then turge we had started to build a legitimate atmosphere.
I have no problem hiring someone with similar qualifications as BK coming into this job. He wasn't a bad hire, he just didn't work out. After 2-3 years, we could have moved on and would hopefully already be recovered

Why are we arguing about stuff so much? Watch our team play. Argument over. Job over.

Gap said:

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No one likes the way the year has gone and I am not opining on anything except the concept of having a rebuilding year in year 8. Yes, you could definitely have a rebuilding year in pretty much any sport in year 8 or year 15 or year 20. It depends on the makeup of your roster from year to year and recruiting. Basketball is especially prone to the team lifecycle because elite players rarely want to stay on the bench so you don't always have an elite player on the roster replacing a guy who just left.

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Well, Kansas does not have a problem with that. Nor does Kentucky. Or any other supposed basketball schools that reload instead of rebuild every year.

And we can be one of those schools with the right coach.

Bring BCG back or go after Travis Ford at St. Louis!

Why does anyone want Steve Alford? Iowa was glad to get rid of him and UCLA just did so although he may be better than BK, and pretty much who isn't, why would we go after a mediocre coach? Aim high and bring back the enthusiasm that basketball deserves

jeff1971 said:

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Why does anyone want Steve Alford? Iowa was glad to get rid of him and UCLA just did so although he may be better than BK, and pretty much who isn't, why would we go after a mediocre coach? Aim high and bring back the enthusiasm that basketball deserves

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Steve Alford would be the most proven coach we have hired in a long time, maybe ever.

Also he has no buyout in his contract at VT after this season.

Also former A&M assistant Kyle Keller HC at SFA would be a good pick if we miss on a experienced Major HC. Keller done a great job at SFA, help recruit the class here at A&M that won, comes from the Eddie Sutton coaching tree, and is a elite recruiter .

If A&M goes bargin bin route, Grant McCasland wouldn't be a bad choice, former Baylor assistant, so he knows how to recruit.

But A&M can do MUCH better.

Have we all gotten that politically correct that a horrendous coach can't be fired because he has an illness? That's insane. He has said on numerous occasions that he feels good and puts in a full work schedule. He needs to go.

gopitt said:

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Have we all gotten that politically correct that a horrendous coach can't be fired because he has an illness? That's insane. He has said on numerous occasions that he feels good and puts in a full work schedule. He needs to go.

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Yea, lettign him go that first year or two would have probably given us a black eye. Every year after that..not so much, it's about performance then.

I'll be your head coach. I'll bring Melo to Texas. Biggest baller in the world, best baller in the state, guaranteed champion in first season. IF YOU AINT WITH US YOU AINT A BIG BALLER. I'll be waiting for my job offer. You afraid, aren't you. You can't handle this. Triple B's 4ever! SEND ME MY OFFER WOODWARD