Why has our basketball program lagged behind baseball and football historically?

14,026 Views | 163 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by Indignitas
Hop
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GrayMatter said:

The funny thing is only at A&M do people care more about baseball than they do basketball. Nobody really cares about college baseball.


ESPN apparently has data to contradict your last statement since they allot over three weeks of exclusive coverage showing every Super Regional and CWS game played.
Chester
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Artimus Gordon said:

Turgen actually had a good run at Wichita state before coming here. He wasn't so much of a reach. He just didn't have the personality to keep going what BCG had started. Fans lost interest when turgeon started complain.

The job search after the Shelby firing was a mess. You go from Kermit Davis to Tony Barone to Melvin Watkins. Melvin at least brought in enough talent for BCG to win with.

Kennedy and Childress are two peas in a pod. Both were extreme reaches as you say. Neither had a track record that gave you any confidence that they were any better than the previous HC. Both have shown That they don't have what it takes to get past the 2nd round of the basketball NCAA's nor (in childress' case) make it to the CWS and actually win a game.




I saw what time you posted this. That explains the fuzzy logic and dumb conclusions. Quick question- Do you have season tickets for basketball and baseball or even attend any games? "Kennedy and Childress are two peas in a pod" is a ridiculous comparison. Quit being a two-percenter and start supporting your coaches and teams!
bobinator
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Eh... I think it's fair to say that in the grand scheme of things nobody cares about college baseball. Obviously some people care, but it's not very many. Like the worst bowl games have comparable ratings to the CWS championship series.

It does seem to be growing though in recent years. The number of easily accessible games to watch has absolutely skyrocketed in recent years which is helping a lot .
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bobinator said:

Eh... I think it's fair to say that in the grand scheme of things nobody cares about college baseball. Obviously some people care, but it's not very many. Like the worst bowl games have comparable ratings to the CWS championship series.

It does seem to be growing though in recent years. The number of easily accessible games to watch has absolutely skyrocketed in recent years which is helping a lot .
"Eh, I disagree. Nobody cares about college baseball, although obviously some people care."


Really?
bobinator
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I'm saying if we accept the statement that "nobody cares about college baseball" as hyperbole, which it obviously is, because it obviously isn't literally true, then I don't think his larger point is false.

In the grand scheme of sports and the general public, nobody cares about college baseball. ESPN puts it on this time of year because nothing else is happening, but it's ratings still suck.
_lefraud_
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ESPN also shows WNBA, bowling and cornhole...which obviously some people "care" about, but college baseball doesn't move the needle anything close to college basketball, which is why an average to below average coach like Kennedy is able to make WAY more than even elite college baseball coaches.
expresswrittenconsent
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Hop said:

GrayMatter said:

The funny thing is only at A&M do people care more about baseball than they do basketball. Nobody really cares about college baseball.


ESPN apparently has data to contradict your last statement since they allot over three weeks of exclusive coverage showing every Super Regional and CWS game played.

Did you actually look at ratings data or did you just make stuff up? College baseball draws worse ratings than women's softball. And "over 3 weeks of exclusive coverage"? So they just drop everything and only cover college baseball? Of course not. And supers last 4 days and the CWS lasts what 8-9 days? Definitely 3 weeks of around the clock exclusive coverage. What's really strange is that we are smack in the middle of your imaginary 3 week exclusive window of coverage and I just flipped through all of the ESPN channels and guess what - none of the stations were covering or discussing college baseball, and ESPNU was showing a regular season college hoops game from last season (part of a top 25 games of last season which unfortunately includes our losses to LSU and bama).
Hop
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expresswrittenconsent said:

Hop said:

GrayMatter said:

The funny thing is only at A&M do people care more about baseball than they do basketball. Nobody really cares about college baseball.


ESPN apparently has data to contradict your last statement since they allot over three weeks of exclusive coverage showing every Super Regional and CWS game played.

Did you actually look at ratings data or did you just make stuff up? College baseball draws worse ratings than women's softball. And "over 3 weeks of exclusive coverage"? So they just drop everything and only cover college baseball? Of course not. And supers last 4 days and the CWS lasts what 8-9 days? Definitely 3 weeks of around the clock exclusive coverage. What's really strange is that we are smack in the middle of your imaginary 3 week exclusive window of coverage and I just flipped through all of the ESPN channels and guess what - none of the stations were covering or discussing college baseball, and ESPNU was showing a regular season college hoops game from last season (part of a top 25 games of last season which unfortunately includes our losses to LSU and bama).
How can you cover something that hasn't started? That's like saying I could flip to ESPN at noon on a Friday in the fall, not see live NFL football and proclaim ESPN had higher priorities. There is a three week block of coverage of college baseball where all 60-70 games are broadcast on the ESPN family of networks...and many of those are in prime time. I assume if college baseball was not a priority for this time of year, they could have negotiated to have more than 1-2 MLB games on a week.

Again, I responded to the guy that said nobody watches or cares about college baseball. If that were the case, they would be showing something else for a majority of their prime time programming over the course of a three week period. Not to mention some of the NCAA Regional broadcasts...A&M's regional was on ESPN2. So a four week window. I'm not saying college baseball is some juggernaut of national interest, but it must have some interest significant enough for a national network to devote so much time and so much programming to one event. The fact that anybody is arguing this point is bewildering.
greg.w.h
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I think the CWS fits into the summer casual viewer baseball of WBC, MLB All Star Game, and the Little League World Series and have a somewhat broader audience. College baseball is possibly doing better due to the combination of conference network streaming and additional linear broadcast time to fill on the various ESPN channels. Softball definitely seems to be growing an audience if total minutes broadcast on the linear channels is indicative.

That there is very little live, competing content is a reasonable reason to broadcast more with the hope of building audience. Impossible to tell much more without year-over-year numbers.
_lefraud_
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You missed his point Hop. If you flip to ESPN in the Fall, you will most likely find that NFL Live or some other program comes on daily to cover the NFL, said can be said for college football, college basketball, and other sports. But nowhere will you find a programming on college baseball, except for maybe the few days of the CWS. College baseball is so far behind other sports in terms of coverage for ESPN and all the other networks. Some sports I'd put it behind would include Soccer, WNBA, hockey, boxing, poker, bowling. College baseball is closer to college lacrosse than it is to other sports in terms of overall programming/coverage.
_lefraud_
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_lefraud_
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So at 6:30p this evening NFL Live had 1.5hr slot on ESPN 2, but I couldn't find any programming on ESPN/ESPN2 for college baseball/CWS. Weird.
TyperWoods
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The LLWS gets more coverage and hype than the CWS.
GrayMatter
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TyperWoods said:

The LLWS gets more coverage and hype than the CWS.
that was my point in saying that nobody cares about the CWS. With the World Cup in full swing, you'd be hard pressed to find any game or even highlights of the CWS. decent coverage like college basketball/football or even the LLWS.

Of course if it wasn't for March Madness, no one really cares about what happens during the college basketball season.
expresswrittenconsent
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March Madness has that whole billion dollar TV deal, though.
GrayMatter
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Hop said:

expresswrittenconsent said:

Hop said:

GrayMatter said:

The funny thing is only at A&M do people care more about baseball than they do basketball. Nobody really cares about college baseball.


ESPN apparently has data to contradict your last statement since they allot over three weeks of exclusive coverage showing every Super Regional and CWS game played.

Did you actually look at ratings data or did you just make stuff up? College baseball draws worse ratings than women's softball. And "over 3 weeks of exclusive coverage"? So they just drop everything and only cover college baseball? Of course not. And supers last 4 days and the CWS lasts what 8-9 days? Definitely 3 weeks of around the clock exclusive coverage. What's really strange is that we are smack in the middle of your imaginary 3 week exclusive window of coverage and I just flipped through all of the ESPN channels and guess what - none of the stations were covering or discussing college baseball, and ESPNU was showing a regular season college hoops game from last season (part of a top 25 games of last season which unfortunately includes our losses to LSU and bama).
How can you cover something that hasn't started? That's like saying I could flip to ESPN at noon on a Friday in the fall, not see live NFL football and proclaim ESPN had higher priorities. There is a three week block of coverage of college baseball where all 60-70 games are broadcast on the ESPN family of networks...and many of those are in prime time. I assume if college baseball was not a priority for this time of year, they could have negotiated to have more than 1-2 MLB games on a week.

Again, I responded to the guy that said nobody watches or cares about college baseball. If that were the case, they would be showing something else for a majority of their prime time programming over the course of a three week period. Not to mention some of the NCAA Regional broadcasts...A&M's regional was on ESPN2. So a four week window. I'm not saying college baseball is some juggernaut of national interest, but it must have some interest significant enough for a national network to devote so much time and so much programming to one event. The fact that anybody is arguing this point is bewildering.
to your point about "interest significant enough", what other significant sport event are they going to show? I'm guess they could show more MLB but it's the CWS, naturally they're going to want to show a championship sporting tournament. They also show NCAA softball and volleyball tournaments on ESPN as well, are we using ESPN as the barometer that people care about a sport?
Hop
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GrayMatter said:

Hop said:

expresswrittenconsent said:

Hop said:

GrayMatter said:

The funny thing is only at A&M do people care more about baseball than they do basketball. Nobody really cares about college baseball.


ESPN apparently has data to contradict your last statement since they allot over three weeks of exclusive coverage showing every Super Regional and CWS game played.

Did you actually look at ratings data or did you just make stuff up? College baseball draws worse ratings than women's softball. And "over 3 weeks of exclusive coverage"? So they just drop everything and only cover college baseball? Of course not. And supers last 4 days and the CWS lasts what 8-9 days? Definitely 3 weeks of around the clock exclusive coverage. What's really strange is that we are smack in the middle of your imaginary 3 week exclusive window of coverage and I just flipped through all of the ESPN channels and guess what - none of the stations were covering or discussing college baseball, and ESPNU was showing a regular season college hoops game from last season (part of a top 25 games of last season which unfortunately includes our losses to LSU and bama).
How can you cover something that hasn't started? That's like saying I could flip to ESPN at noon on a Friday in the fall, not see live NFL football and proclaim ESPN had higher priorities. There is a three week block of coverage of college baseball where all 60-70 games are broadcast on the ESPN family of networks...and many of those are in prime time. I assume if college baseball was not a priority for this time of year, they could have negotiated to have more than 1-2 MLB games on a week.

Again, I responded to the guy that said nobody watches or cares about college baseball. If that were the case, they would be showing something else for a majority of their prime time programming over the course of a three week period. Not to mention some of the NCAA Regional broadcasts...A&M's regional was on ESPN2. So a four week window. I'm not saying college baseball is some juggernaut of national interest, but it must have some interest significant enough for a national network to devote so much time and so much programming to one event. The fact that anybody is arguing this point is bewildering.
to your point about "interest significant enough", what other significant sport event are they going to show? I'm guess they could show more MLB but it's the CWS, naturally they're going to want to show a championship sporting tournament. They also show NCAA softball and volleyball tournaments on ESPN as well, are we using ESPN as the barometer that people care about a sport?
This was a look at the 2014 CWS final game that was the 3rd most watched baseball game of the year...college or pro. This has devolved into it looking like I'm defending college baseball versus the other major sports...and I'm not. I'm simply saying that it is a marketable audience that watches college baseball and to say "nobody cares about it" is an inaccurate throw-away line.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/network-press-releases/college-world-series-espns-most-watched-since-2011/
expresswrittenconsent
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Quote:

This was a look at the 2014 CWS final game that was the 3rd most watched baseball game of the year...college or pro.
give it another read and see if that is still your conclusion. Here's a hint - the article you posted about ratings from 4 yrs ago (weird that no more recent ratings were available) came out on June 27th, and to that point of the year it was the 3rd highest baseball game televised. The last 90 games of the MLB season and the entire MLB playoffs are not included in that "stat".

is that strike 3 yet?
Hop
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expresswrittenconsent said:

Quote:

This was a look at the 2014 CWS final game that was the 3rd most watched baseball game of the year...college or pro.
give it another read and see if that is still your conclusion. Here's a hint - the article you posted about ratings from 4 yrs ago (weird that no more recent ratings were available) came out on June 27th, and to that point of the year it was the 3rd highest baseball game televised. The last 90 games of the MLB season and the entire MLB playoffs are not included in that "stat".

is that strike 3 yet?
No...I don't know how many times I have to say that I'm not comparing college baseball to the other major college sports. Enough care about college baseball that ESPN invests a lot of resources and prime air time to the sport in postseason play. I just picked the first article that came up. How about this one? If you don;t like that one, I'm sure I can find several more. care to change your conclusion? Is 2,000,000 viewers for one college baseball game rate above "nobody cares"?

https://espnmediazone.com/us/press-releases/2017/06/college-world-series-sets-multi-year-viewership-highs-simultaneously-shatters-streaming-records/

http://awfulannouncing.com/espn/college-world-series-ratings-way-espn.html
expresswrittenconsent
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I love the way you change the argument rather than admit to ever being wrong.
Hop
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expresswrittenconsent said:

I love the way you change the argument rather than admit to ever being wrong.


I assume you simply want to troll. I don't even know what you are even suggesting that I've changed, but that adds to the troll I guess.

This started with me responding to "nobody cares about college baseball" statement saying that the number 1 national sports channel features the sport on its prime time programming for three weeks.... so "somebody" cares.

I'm still saying defending that same point. Nothing has changed.
_lefraud_
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expresswrittenconsent said:

I love the way you change the argument rather than admit to ever being wrong.
He usually just ignores and never returns, but he's digging his heels deep this go around.

Hop, try to think of it this way. 16+ million watched the NCAA Tournament final...that doesn't mean/prove that 16+ million are actually interested in college basketball.

And saying "ESPN has had the CWS in primetime for 3 weeks" is a bit of a farce, but even so, what's the competition at this time, MLB and NBA draft coverage?
halfastros81
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Of late I don't think basketball has lagged football. We shared an SEC title in the past five yrs and made 2 sweet sixteens in hoops. When was the last time football did anything like that, 2012 I guess and 1998 was the last time b4 that. Baseball also has been consistently competitive but never great.
DeangeloVickers
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TyperWoods said:

In football, we've hired Bear Bryant, dang near hired Bo Schembechler, hired Jackie Sherrill, hired Fran (even though he was a supreme bust), hired Sumlin (who was the hot name at the time), and hired Jimbo.


In basketball, we've fired Shelby, and hired Kermit, Barone, Watkins, BKG, Turge, and Kennedy.

Kermit immediately got caught cheating and we got 2 years in NCAA jail.
Barone was a reach.
Watkins was a reach.
BKG was a reach.
Turgeon was a reach.
Kennedy was a decent hire.

We failed to even attempt to hire Buzz Williams, Avery Johnson, Frank Martin, Bruce Pearl, all who have been available since we hired Kennedy.

Reaches BKG and Turge worked out. Kennedy may work out, if the team gets more consistantly better.
Kennedy a decent hire?!? I'd argue he was never qualified for this position

Turgeon was a nice coup ...Wichita st has more resources than you could imagine (Koch bros) and I'd argue Melvin was thought to be a better hire at the time...
Melvin went to the 2nd round at UNCC in a very short time there..
Indignitas
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We simply don't have a noteworthy money whip when it comes to roundball. There are lots of coaches out there whom we could go get if we did.

But just sit tight. The "Reed Arena generation" of Ags, as they age, will add some bball passion to our BMA pool...starting in another 10 years or so.

Meanwhile, we poors just need to suck it up, enjoy the biennial-to-quadrennial tourney runs, and show lots of love for our guys who made it into the League.
 
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