Where Does Villanova rank?

2,189 Views | 29 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by John Francis Donaghy
_lefraud_
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UK, UCLA, Duke, Carolina, Kansas

Indiana, Uconn,

Nova?

Michigan St, Lville, Florida, Syracuse, Arizona

Michigan?

I'd say a win tonight puts them squarely on the same tier as Uconn. Is Jay Wright turning that program into Duke 2.0? In 10 years, will they be closer to being amongst that top tier?

A win for Michigan tonight puts them on the same tier as Lville, Mich St, etc...thoughts?
Double Diamond
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Yea they'd be in the Uconn range. Not a blueblood all time program. But really good program.
Know Your Enemy
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Where does Parrish rank them?
Bunk Moreland
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You've got it probably about Wright.
Double Diamond
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Not sure. Will you ask him.
Dancer
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Know Your Enemy
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Double Diamond said:

Not sure. Will you ask him.

Sure. Can you give me his phone number?
Double Diamond
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Parrish and Norlander have the best podcast. So yea it bleeds into my comments. So what.
Dancer
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I like your tiers. I'd move Indiana into the listing of blue bloods. They have sucked since Bobby Knight left, but have historically been considered on that top tier and have 5 championships.

UCONN doesn't have the history. All of their championships are post mid-1990s and so they are in the odd position of actually belonging on a tier of their own (though they have more titles than Kansas actually).

Villanova should absolutely be on that fourth tier with Florida, Lville, etc.
Olaf
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At what point does a school move to "blue blood" status?
Dancer
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Good question-

https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/2t1uer/what_is_a_blueblood_college_basketball_program/

I think this is a decent discussion on it. I keep seeing those exact 6 brought up.
Olaf
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I appreciate the source.

Fwiw I don't feel as though Villanova is a blue blood but if they win a few more over then next decade like Duke did I'd certainly say they are blue blood.

Also, at what point does a program stop being a blue blood? Indiana's been bad for a while.
_lefraud_
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Yea, my issue with Indiana is they have ONE final four/elite eight appearance in the last 25 years. For me, that pushes them off the top tier. UCLA needs to win a title soon, or I'd bump them down as well.
_lefraud_
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Olaf said:

At what point does a school move to "blue blood" status?

10+ final fours, legendary coaches, 3+ titles and sustained "success" over 30 years or so.
Aston04
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Nova is not a blue blood. Would take several years of this to establish that.

Gotta say Indiana isn't one anymore. Kids don't remember them being good.
Bunk Moreland
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If they win tonight they tie Kansas for 7th all time with 3 titles.

They've also moved into a tie for 10th in final fours, and tied Michigan St for 7th in elite 8's.

What's a blue blood again?

_lefraud_
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Nova was good/great from the late 70s thru the '85 title, and have been good/great since '06. They need another good/great decade or so, and a few more final fours to be bumped up to the "blue bloods" (assuming they get title #3 tonight). They look a lot like Lville the more I think about it.
Bunk Moreland
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Yeah I ask the question less to be snarky and more to curiously wonder where the cutoff is in cbb.

If you look at titles, f4, S16, tourney appearances etc... There is a clear top 4...maybe 5 at most. Then there's another tier well below.

It's a bit difficult to know who to include or who not to.
94chem
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Duke became the 6th team in about the early 2000's.
94chem
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This is Michigan's 5th title appearance in 30 years. They are ahead of Nova regardless of this game.

Nova is Tier 3, whatever that is. UConn is Tier 2. Can't ignore the titles.
_lefraud_
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Bunk Moreland said:

Yeah I ask the question less to be snarky and more to curiously wonder where the cutoff is in cbb.

If you look at titles, f4, S16, tourney appearances etc... There is a clear top 4...maybe 5 at most. Then there's another tier well below.

It's a bit difficult to know who to include or who not to.

I think Kansas gets a pass for having Naismith, as they didn't win #3 until 2008. However, UNC only had 3 titles until '05 (6 total), and Duke added their 3rd title in '01 (5 total).

For me, the Blue Bloods are UK, UCLA, UNC, Duke and Kansas.

The next tier is Indiana (only 8 final fours?!?!) with Uconn, Lville, Michigan St and now, Nova.

It'll be interesting if Nova can creep closer to blue blood status by 2030.
Bruce Almighty
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So basically Duke, UNC and Kentucky are the only blue bloods from what I'm reading on this thread. If UConn, Mich. St and Nova aren't blue bloods, then KU, Indiana and UCLA shouldn't be either.
_lefraud_
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94chem said:

This is Michigan's 5th title appearance in 30 years. They are ahead of Nova regardless of this game.

Nova is Tier 3, whatever that is. UConn is Tier 2. Can't ignore the titles.

You say you can't ignore titles, yet have Nova (3) below Michigan (1)? I think Michigan is in Tier 3 with Florida, Arizona, Syracuse, etc.
Aggie09Derek
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Agree completely with this post but would put Zona in your tier 2. They have underperformed lately but still a powerhouse program with great fans.
_lefraud_
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Final Fours

20 - Unc
17 - Ucla
17 - Uk
16 - Duke
15 - Kansas

Title Games

12 - Ucla
12 - Uk
11 - Unc
11 - Duke
9 - Kansas

NCAA Tournaments

56 - Uk
48 - Unc
46 - Kansas
46 - Ucla
42 - Lville
41 - Duke

NCAA tournament wins

124 - Uk
123 - Unc
108 - Duke
103 - Kansas
100 - Ucla

Kansas also has the longest curren streak of making the tournament at 29 years
94chem
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This is all for fun, but only considering post -1979 is an interesting discussion. It's largely considered the beginning of the modern game...parity, Bird/Magic, TV...
_lefraud_
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Aggie09Derek said:

Agree completely with this post but would put Zona in your tier 2. They have underperformed lately but still a powerhouse program with great fans.

I agree they are a powerhouse, but only 4 final fours (none since '01) and only 1 title? Just can't put them up there with Uconn, Lville, Nova, Mich St
_lefraud_
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94chem said:

This is all for fun, but only considering post -1979 is an interesting discussion. It's largely considered the beginning of the modern game...parity, Bird/Magic, TV...

Ohio State and Cincinnati are somewhere amongst tier 2/3 if we include the 50s/60s
94chem
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Not one mention of Cincinnati or Ohio State. Historically, those are easily Tier 3 programs, both ahead of Arizona. Both Cincy and Ohio State have been good in multiple decades.

Ha, just saw your post...great minds...
Bruce Almighty
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I feel like "blue blood" is this permanent thing, where at some point in time, it was established that these schools were the blue bloods and the list doesn't change. Indiana hasn't won a title in 30 years, yet people still consider them an elite program. Why? Why is UConn not a blue blood when they have more titles than Kansas? Is it because they've won them all in the last 20 years? If that's the case, Duke won their first title just 8 years earlier. What happens if in 20 years KU still hasn't won their 4th title and UConn and Nova both win a couple more? Do they finally get blue blood status, does KU get knocked out?
John Francis Donaghy
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Blue blood status is about longevity as much as titles. If you grew up thinking a program is a powerhouse, your dad grew up thinking the program was a powerhouse, and now your kid is growing up thinking the program is a powerhouse, that's a blue blood program. They've been good so long it's in their blood to be good, to the point it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. The best coaches keep wanting to coach at them, and the best players keep wanting to play for them.

Agree about UCLA and Indiana being on the cusp of falling out, maybe already gone.
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