Evaluation

6,912 Views | 111 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by Double Diamond
Double Diamond
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Evaluation is done through looking at the season, the entire body of work, and current trajectory moving forward. Being a prisoner of the moment over a few games is how you continue this spiral of slow movement forward. This team has two sweet sixteens in two years and no energy. That right there explains why overvaluing a games isn't how you judge things. There needs to be new direction.
bobinator
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I started to do a whole long post about this, but what's the point.

Thinking there's any chance we could get rid of Kennedy right now is living in a fantasy that's so far removed from reality that there's really no point arguing about it.
Double Diamond
How long do you want to ignore this user?
It's a fantasy. But my take is correct. There is no energy, excitement etc. Recruiting could pick up, but it's certainly hit a wall.
bobinator
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
It's not necessarily correct because "needs" is open to interpretation. To you and I, sure, but to most Aggies our basketball program appears to be in perfectly fine shape.
Double Diamond
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Is there one Aggie who will say there is excitement or energy around the program? I know Kennedy's support network is so insulated they have no idea. Too busy protecting Kennedy. I'm talking about fans at games, this board has no energy or excitement.
bobinator
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Whether they'd say there is energy around the program isn't really the right question. It's whether they'd notice that there isn't any energy, and the answer is no, they wouldn't. A lack of energy is kind of our natural state in basketball. Only for a few brief moments has there been anything else.
Double Diamond
How long do you want to ignore this user?
And we're back to why A&M doesn't want a top notch athletic program. It's never been attempted, so saying it can't work isn't true. Nobody knows. They got tired of football being in a state of mediocre would be nice to see some multi tasking going around. The Jimbo thing might not work out, but clearly it's worth trying.
bobinator
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
People want to be elite at football, and they're willing to put up money to do it. They aren't as concerned with basketball, so they don't. It's really that easy. I don't get how you aren't getting this.

Life is a lot easier as a basketball fan when you just accept that reality. Unless you have the resources to change that reality, what's the point wishing for anything else.
Double Diamond
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Too me 2.5 million a year isn't nothing for a basketball coach.
bobinator
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
If Billy Kennedy decided he wanted to retire, I think people like basketball enough and our resources are enough that we could be competitive on the market for a new coach. And we've DEFINITELY shown that we're more than loyal to anyone who is even remotely decent.

But we're not going to pay 4.5 million or whatever it is to fire him. Now if we suck next year, the buyout is a lot more reasonable because I think it's basically just one more year of salary anyway, so there would be a window.

I said last year, before this year, and I'll say it again, once we gave Kennedy the new deal in 2016, there was basically nothing short of an absolute program implosion that would get him fired before 2019. There hasn't been an implosion, though we flirted with one for a bit this year, so it's still going to be 2019 before there's really even any point debating Kennedy's future.

I think this is the last I'm going to say on this topic because it really is just the same conversations with the same few people. We're going to need some new stuff to talk about around here or we're never going to make it to next November.
GrayMatter
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
bobinator said:

People want to be elite at football, and they're willing to put up money to do it. They aren't as concerned with basketball, so they don't. It's really that easy. I don't get how you aren't getting this.

Life is a lot easier as a basketball fan when you just accept that reality. Unless you have the resources to change that reality, what's the point wishing for anything else.
Yep generally speaking most people don't care about basketball.
The conversations will be uncomfortable, but we all have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable for progress to be made.
CDub06
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
bobinator said:

Whether they'd say there is energy around the program isn't really the right question. It's whether they'd notice that there isn't any energy, and the answer is no, they wouldn't. A lack of energy is kind of our natural state in basketball. Only for a few brief moments has there been anything else.
Ouch...

True but still, Ouch.
DeangeloVickers
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I dont know how I buy season tickets next year

I have zero excitement and I was optimist through the Melvin years (until 0-16)

bobinator
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Ryno01 said:

I dont know how I buy season tickets next year
If Tyler Davis comes back watching him for a final season will alone be worth the price of admission.

He's the model for what our program should be about, because people could get behind a program that plays the way Tyler Davis plays. Absolutely relentless effort.
DeangeloVickers
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Same can be said for Admon, Ive always loved the way he's played

But if Tyler is gone like many are saying....
GrayMatter
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Ryno01 said:

Same can be said for Admon, Ive always loved the way he's played

But if Tyler is gone like many are saying....
I tend to agree with what John Pugliese said about Tyler and Hogg coming back next year. He said that he could really cement himself as one of A&M's all-time best if he were to come back for his senior year. He would have better stats because he wouldn't have to fight anyone for the same spot on the low block. And it would serve Hogg better because he could play as a stretch 4. I also don't foresee any more problems with Hogg; by my count, he's got one more strike left before he gets the JJ Caldwell treatment.

In my mind, they both will get evaluated by NBA scouts and get told what to work on and I'm thinking they'll come back to refine their games.
The conversations will be uncomfortable, but we all have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable for progress to be made.
TjgtAg08
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Thumbs up to this thread simply because the first 10 posts were just Diamond and Bob talking back and forth to each other. Outstanding!
wacarnolds
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
AggieBaller98 said:

Ryno01 said:

Same can be said for Admon, Ive always loved the way he's played

But if Tyler is gone like many are saying....
I tend to agree with what John Pugliese said about Tyler and Hogg coming back next year. He said that he could really cement himself as one of A&M's all-time best if he were to come back for his senior year. He would have better stats because he wouldn't have to fight anyone for the same spot on the low block. And it would serve Hogg better because he could play as a stretch 4. I also don't foresee any more problems with Hogg; by my count, he's got one more strike left before he gets the JJ Caldwell treatment.

In my mind, they both will get evaluated by NBA scouts and get told what to work on and I'm thinking they'll come back to refine their games.
Why do people think Hogg is going to spend a lot of time at the 4 next year? Tyler has worked his way up to 30+ minutes and Nebo will probably get most of Robert's vacated minutes, so I don't envision more than 5-10 minutes for Hogg at the 4 next year.
Double Diamond
How long do you want to ignore this user?
It's a big if that Hogg would be moved to the four. Nobody knows what Kennedy is thinking.
Sandman23
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
bobinator said:

Ryno01 said:

I dont know how I buy season tickets next year
If Tyler Davis comes back watching him for a final season will alone be worth the price of admission.

He's the model for what our program should be about, because people could get behind a program that plays the way Tyler Davis plays. Absolutely relentless effort.
IF he does come back, I'd have to assume he'd start the year on the watch list for the Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Award again. It would be pretty damn awesome if he could find a way to win it and get his jersey hung next to Acie's. Can't think of a more deserving dude.
------- Fightin' Texas Aggie Class of 2007
AggieDad74
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Double Diamond said:

To me, $2.5 million a year isn't nothing for a basketball coach.


Unless, of course, you happen to be the one shelling out the $2.5Mil!
Tobias Funke
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
This thread had been thoroughly depressing. And I don't disagree with any single post on it.

I get excited about Aggie basketball for 2018 if 2 of the following 3 happen:

-we get Wendell
-Tyler comes back
-we pick up a completely unexpected big man with talent and experience

Other than that it's kind of a meh for me.
Method Man
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Most Aggies that know about bball want him gone. Most that don't don't. Those that don't don't know or care about bball at all. If we suck, they tune out. Why should they be part of the process?
bobinator
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Method Man said:

Most Aggies that know about bball want him gone. Most that don't don't. Those that don't don't know or care about bball at all. If we suck, they tune out. Why should they be part of the process?
So I kind of disagree here but it's a nuanced disagreement. I don't think it's a given that "most aggies that know about bball want him gone."

But let's just assume that that part is completely true, that most people that really do care about the program wish we could get rid of him. There's a big difference between wishing we could fire him, and ponying up the 4.5 million dollars or whatever it would take to actually do it this year because of that stupid contract two years ago. We can complain and whine and wish we could change history, but we can't, we have to deal with the reality that we're in right now.

The thing is, most of us here, if we had the money or influence, would go ahead and move on, but the reason we would move on is because we think we're going to be horrible next year, the future doesn't look particularly bright, and that we're basically set to be in the bottom of the SEC for the next few years.

But most schools, ADs, presidents, etc don't fire someone in the middle of a deal because it looks like they're not going to be very good. Almost universally, they actually have to be bad before they're fired. This season, we weren't bad. We weren't as good as we should have been, but we weren't bad. If we're actually bad next year, then there would probably be enough momentum to get rid of him.
Double Diamond
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I think 2.5 is a heck of a lot of money. And should be expected to provide a better program.
Double Diamond
How long do you want to ignore this user?
The few left around here that refuse to demand a change are few. And frankly just move the goal post in order to insure they don't have to take a stand. There are a few that won't ever ask for a coaching change until it's again a Watkins level of failure, and I'm certain a few still wish Watkins were here. Or were certainly unhappy when he was fired. I think it's pretty clear there isn't a lot of excitement.
mhayden
How long do you want to ignore this user?
There's little point in demanding a change around here -- no one is listening to the internet masses, and going on record with your feelings really don't matter as when the time comes that Kennedy is released you'll have everyone claiming they were wanting him gone years ago despite what their posting history says.

Turgeon was very quick to be blamed for all of this program's problems by those who staunchly defended his shortcomings here. Make no mistake the next coach will be given a pass due to Kennedy being to blame by the same people who have defended Kennedy.

I mean, let's be honest about what our fanbase will settle for -- Kennedy went 0-for-4 in NCAA Tournament appearances and when he finally got one in his 5th year, TexAgs wrote the equivalent of a "How do you like me now?" piece.

I was a student during the Melvin days and I truly never believed we would ever be a perennial tournament contender. Gillispie and Turgeon convinced me otherwise -- this program has the $$$ and resources to be in the hunt for the tournament every single year come March. But somewhere along the line a lot of people didn't get that same memo and are back to thinking any NCAA Tourney appearance is the equivalent of a NYE bowl.

Is this what apathy feels like?
Aston04
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
free_mhayden said:

I mean, let's be honest about what our fanbase will settle for -- Kennedy went 0-for-4 in NCAA Tournament appearances and when he finally got one in his 5th year, TexAgs wrote the equivalent of a "How do you like me now?" piece.
This.
bobinator
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
free_mhayden said:

Is this what apathy feels like?

Yeah, although it's actually kind of freeing. You can enjoy the little things more once you accept that the big picture isn't changing any time soon.

Maybe we'll totally suck next year, and maybe Kennedy gets fired, and then we'll have our once-about-every-decade chance to make a good decision.
JJxvi
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Even if "basketball fans who know about basketball" really do want him gone...the fact is that "basketball fans who know about basketball" should also know better than to think that there is any way he would ever "be gone" after this year's results.

We can all prefer other coaches and wish as hard as we want, but there is zero chance Kennedy would ever get fired based on the recent results. They simply aren't bad enough (or you could say they are "too good" even) despite the underachievement. There are basically zero programs that would fire Kennedy based on the last three years of results, except maybe those with final four/national championship expectation levels.. Sure, lots of programs wouldn't have let Kennedy stumble around as long as he did, but nobody would be firing him now
Double Diamond
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I lost all respect for the writers on here with the pointing fingers propaganda piece for Kennedy's first tournament. All the hand wringing was 100% due. And that writeup showed how deep this problem runs.
mhayden
How long do you want to ignore this user?
At least this year we don't have TMF board members in here patting themselves on the back and laughing at the no-nothings like we did in 2016.
Double Diamond
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Interesting how silent people were.
BBDP
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
My main indicator for any evaluation is final results.
_lefraud_
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
JJxvi said:

Even if "basketball fans who know about basketball" really do want him gone...the fact is that "basketball fans who know about basketball" should also know better than to think that there is any way he would ever "be gone" after this year's results.

We can all prefer other coaches and wish as hard as we want, but there is zero chance Kennedy would ever get fired based on the recent results. They simply aren't bad enough (or you could say they are "too good" even) despite the underachievement. There are basically zero programs that would fire Kennedy based on the last three years of results, except maybe those with final four/national championship expectation levels.. Sure, lots of programs wouldn't have let Kennedy stumble around as long as he did, but nobody would be firing him now
In 2014, in his 3rd year, Tennessee fans grew tired of Cuonzo Martin, even starting a petition to have him be removed after "under achieving". Martin and Tennessee ended up making the field of 68, and made it to the Sweet 16. Shortly thereafter, Martin resigned...

Unfortunately, we don't have a crowd that would start a petition (whether that's good or bad, not sure) and the no other school out there will hire Billy Kennedy, so he won't be resigning. He will make the athletic department fire him, but he will always seem to do just enough for people (who have extremely low standards) to keep him around.
Last Page
Page 1 of 4
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.