Leaving with no comment...

5,631 Views | 42 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by PatAg
Punked Shank
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AG
No opinion provided, just putting out information.

How many teams have been to the sweet 16 twice in past 3 years? Well you'd be surprised on the amount of repeat teams since 2016..

UNC
Michigan
Duke
Villanova
Florida
Gonzaga
West Virginia
Kansas
Syracuse
Oregon
Wisconsin
Purdue
....and Texas A&M

There's that.

TyperWoods
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I'm sick of hearing about 2 sweet 16s. One was a fluke.

...and so was the other now that I think about it.
crunchyo
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Sinxe when is top 16 acceptable? Just think if you were top 16 in a 60+ person office. Congrats on being slightly above average.
Jumbo Fister
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AG
Why do we just arbitrarily say 2 in the past 3 years? Sure, that's true, but it's disingenuous. 3 years seems like a strange cutoff to me. Shouldn't we look at Kennedy's whole body of work?
t - cam
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crunchyo said:

Sinxe when is top 16 acceptable? Just think if you were top 16 in a 60+ person office. Congrats on being slightly above average.


Sweet 16 is a good season. It's no longer great around here but it's not a throw away either.
Gap
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TyperWoods said:

I'm sick of hearing about 2 sweet 16s. One was a fluke.

...and so was the other now that I think about it.
Sorry to disappoint you, but both Sweet 16's are real.

School and coach's below. That is a pretty elite group. No Arizona's. No UCLA's. No Michigan St.'s.

Texas A&M - Billy Kennedy
UNC - Roy Williams
Kentucky - John Calipari
Michigan - John Beilein
Duke - Mike Krzyzewski
Villanova - Jay Wright
Florida - Mike White
Gonzaga - Mark Few
West Virginia - Bob Huggins
Kansas - Bill Self
Syracuse - Jim Boeheim
Oregon - Dana Altman
Wisconsin - Greg Gard
Purdue - Matt Painter
Gap
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AG
Need to add Kentucky, right?
BanderaAg956
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How many on that list were BLOWN OUT IN BOTH GAMES?
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Gap
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crunchyo said:

Sinxe when is top 16 acceptable? Just think if you were top 16 in a 60+ person office. Congrats on being slightly above average.
351 teams in Division 1 basketball

If you make the Sweet 16 only 8 teams advance further So, you are in the top 2.3%.
Chuck Gay
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Desk said:

Why do we just arbitrarily say 2 in the past 3 years? Sure, that's true, but it's disingenuous. 3 years seems like a strange cutoff to me. Shouldn't we look at Kennedy's whole body of work?
Because the most recent is the most important. Sumlin wouldn't have been fired this year if he had his 2012 season from 6 years ago. Slocum wouldn't have been out in 2002 if he was in the midst of his 1990-93 run.
Jumbo Fister
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Chuck Gay said:

Desk said:

Why do we just arbitrarily say 2 in the past 3 years? Sure, that's true, but it's disingenuous. 3 years seems like a strange cutoff to me. Shouldn't we look at Kennedy's whole body of work?
Because the most recent is the most important. Sumlin wouldn't have been fired this year if he had his 2012 season from 6 years ago. Slocum wouldn't have been out in 2002 if he was in the midst of his 1990-93 run.


Right, Sumlin probably would have been fired the year before or earlier if that were the case. I think in both Sumlin and Kennedy's cases, you have to look at the successful years as anomalies. Looking specifically at Kennedy's case, the only times he's made the tournament here, he's also made the s16. To me, that seems like the perfect storm of players, conference standings, and luck to be honest, rather than coaching acumen.

I'd be more inclined to see your point if everything was trending upward. A tough nailbiter to Michigan, along with a great recruiting class, and an overall positive attitude. However, this is absolutely not the case. After losing our lottery pick and potentially more, we are trending down fast. Kennedy's successes just aren't sustainable.
PatAg
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What are those coaches records in the sweet 16s? Were they embarrassed both times?
Aston04
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Gap said:

TyperWoods said:

I'm sick of hearing about 2 sweet 16s. One was a fluke.

...and so was the other now that I think about it.
Sorry to disappoint you, but both Sweet 16's are real.

School and coach's below. That is a pretty elite group. No Arizona's. No UCLA's. No Michigan St.'s.

Texas A&M - Billy Kennedy
UNC - Roy Williams
Kentucky - John Calipari
Michigan - John Beilein
Duke - Mike Krzyzewski
Villanova - Jay Wright
Florida - Mike White
Gonzaga - Mark Few
West Virginia - Bob Huggins
Kansas - Bill Self
Syracuse - Jim Boeheim
Oregon - Dana Altman
Wisconsin - Greg Gard
Purdue - Matt Painter
is it a pretty elite group to miss the tournament four years in a row. Is it an elite group to stand on the sideline like a zombie as his team get crushed?

Why are we content to be at a coaching disadvantage bc our roll the ball out there coach won 4 tourney games. 3 of which to mediocre schools. We have 1 big time tourney win (and 2 embarrassing exits) and that makes up for 5 other years of suck?

I get it we had kick butt class 3 years ago. The results he got with it do not excuse his ineptitude. This group had a shot at being truly elite, but not gonna happen with bk watching.
Maroon Dawn
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AG
So OP is content with "blown out in the S16 every 3 years or so when we actually make the dance" as the maximum ceiling of BKs ability....but only as long as he has Final 4 talent to get him even that far?
claym711
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Sweet 16 does not matter. It's akin to finishing with 8-9 wins in football and getting blown out in a decent bowl, or getting bounced in a baseball regional. Who cares. We made the tournament twice in what 7 years and won 4 games. This coach has zero shot, none whatsoever, of taking this program to the next level.
Gramercy Riffs
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People don't seem to realize that it's possible to acknowledge a nice accomplishment for a school with very little basketball success in its history while also believing that the current coach is not the answer.
claym711
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People only think winning 2 games in a tournament is meaningful because of the great marketing and promotion media does to get viewers.

Sweet 16 means next to nothing, especially when you aren't competitive in conference, are a perennial NIT, and aren't trending up.
Double Diamond
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UNC worked because it worked. Why can't Kennedy do anything when it's not working?
gambochaman
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we made two sweet 16s in spite of kennedy

hth

/thread
greg.w.h
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2 NCAA tournaments in 7 years. Not 3. Even if we give him a pass on the first year it's still 2 of 6 after six straight between two coaches previously.

The two S16s were both good outcomes but the rest is pretty much a hot mess. There have been masterful games to get to the S16 both years as well, then a return to form against S16 opponents.

We keep the guy out of pity for his condition. Or out of fear we can't do better. I don't find either argument particularly motivating. He's made enough money. He has had enough assistants. He and his team lock up under adversity and are exposed for being unprepared.

Last night we kept falling into isolation matchups in offense because we were scared to pass because Michigan's game plan was to be aggressive especially in passing lanes. They also had MUCH better shooters and big men that make 3s effectively. It highlighted the weaknesses we all see in every game.

Kudos to individual team members for upping their game and kudos to the team for occasional surprises either in game plan execution or in showing heart in come-from-behind victories. But there are too many reasons not to retain Kennedy.
FTAG 2000
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claym711 said:

People only think winning 2 games in a tournament is meaningful because of the great marketing and promotion media does to get viewers.

Sweet 16 means next to nothing, especially when you aren't competitive in conference, are a perennial NIT, and aren't trending up.


Especially when you have better talent.

Kennedy took a top 5 team this year and got drummed innhrbs16, somehow people think that's good.
EMIN was WOW!
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Kennedy has a losing record in conference play. So his roster lottery system worked twice in seven effing years. Big deal. You will never build a program with that kind of inconsistency.

What it does show is that even a mediocre coach like Kennedy can win here, like the last two coaches, which should help when finding his replacement (the sooner the better).
TyperWoods
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Gap said:

TyperWoods said:

I'm sick of hearing about 2 sweet 16s. One was a fluke.

...and so was the other now that I think about it.
Sorry to disappoint you, but both Sweet 16's are real.

School and coach's below. That is a pretty elite group. No Arizona's. No UCLA's. No Michigan St.'s.

Texas A&M - Billy Kennedy
UNC - Roy Williams
Kentucky - John Calipari
Michigan - John Beilein
Duke - Mike Krzyzewski
Villanova - Jay Wright
Florida - Mike White
Gonzaga - Mark Few
West Virginia - Bob Huggins
Kansas - Bill Self
Syracuse - Jim Boeheim
Oregon - Dana Altman
Wisconsin - Greg Gard
Purdue - Matt Painter


I didn't say they weren't real, I said they were flukes.

An 11 pt comeback in the final minute is a fluke to get to the sweet 16. You say it's coaching? Then WTF was the other 39 minutes, gum chewing?

This one, we beat NC to get to the sweet 16 because they missed open shots and we didn't, and we have so much length.

Good coaching produces consistent good results. 2 tourneys in 7 seasons isn't very good.

Are you seriously suggesting that we were coached to two Sweet 16s? What happened the other 5 years?



JDCAG (NOT Colin)
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TyperWoods said:

Gap said:

TyperWoods said:

I'm sick of hearing about 2 sweet 16s. One was a fluke.

...and so was the other now that I think about it.
Sorry to disappoint you, but both Sweet 16's are real.

School and coach's below. That is a pretty elite group. No Arizona's. No UCLA's. No Michigan St.'s.

Texas A&M - Billy Kennedy
UNC - Roy Williams
Kentucky - John Calipari
Michigan - John Beilein
Duke - Mike Krzyzewski
Villanova - Jay Wright
Florida - Mike White
Gonzaga - Mark Few
West Virginia - Bob Huggins
Kansas - Bill Self
Syracuse - Jim Boeheim
Oregon - Dana Altman
Wisconsin - Greg Gard
Purdue - Matt Painter


I didn't say they weren't real, I said they were flukes.

An 11 pt comeback in the final minute is a fluke to get to the sweet 16. You say it's coaching? Then WTF was the other 39 minutes, gum chewing?

This one, we beat NC to get to the sweet 16 because they missed open shots and we didn't, and we have so much length.

Good coaching produces consistent good results. 2 tourneys in 7 seasons isn't very good.

Are you seriously suggesting that we were coached to two Sweet 16s? What happened the other 5 years?






You'd have more credibility if you weren't so dismissive of handing Roy Williams his worst tournament loss ever.

Say it was an amazing game but it was only one game. Don't act like t was easy though. Don't be that guy.

I believe we need to move on from Kennedy but some of you feel like saying anything good may cause people to want to keep him so you try to spin everything the other way and just sound like a jilted ex.

mazag08
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JDCAG (NOT Colin) said:

TyperWoods said:

Gap said:

TyperWoods said:

I'm sick of hearing about 2 sweet 16s. One was a fluke.

...and so was the other now that I think about it.
Sorry to disappoint you, but both Sweet 16's are real.

School and coach's below. That is a pretty elite group. No Arizona's. No UCLA's. No Michigan St.'s.

Texas A&M - Billy Kennedy
UNC - Roy Williams
Kentucky - John Calipari
Michigan - John Beilein
Duke - Mike Krzyzewski
Villanova - Jay Wright
Florida - Mike White
Gonzaga - Mark Few
West Virginia - Bob Huggins
Kansas - Bill Self
Syracuse - Jim Boeheim
Oregon - Dana Altman
Wisconsin - Greg Gard
Purdue - Matt Painter


I didn't say they weren't real, I said they were flukes.

An 11 pt comeback in the final minute is a fluke to get to the sweet 16. You say it's coaching? Then WTF was the other 39 minutes, gum chewing?

This one, we beat NC to get to the sweet 16 because they missed open shots and we didn't, and we have so much length.

Good coaching produces consistent good results. 2 tourneys in 7 seasons isn't very good.

Are you seriously suggesting that we were coached to two Sweet 16s? What happened the other 5 years?






You'd have more credibility if you weren't so dismissive of handing Roy Williams his worst tournament loss ever.

Say it was an amazing game but it was only one game. Don't act like t was easy though. Don't be that guy.

I believe we need to move on from Kennedy but some of you feel like saying anything good may cause people to want to keep him so you try to spin everything the other way and just sound like a jilted ex.




It's not worth it man. These little girls will turn everything you say into a BK bash fest. You can literally say fire the coach because he isn't good enough and they will argue with you that he's actually awful.. the most awful of all time and you're a pumper for thinking he's simply just not good.

Let them have their meltdown time. They'll disappear after a couple days, ignore any good news about the program and be here to cry more with any bad news.
TyperWoods
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Assuming BK outcoached Roy Williams that game, THAT IN ITSELF is a fluke, given their careers.

I'm looking at 7 seasons of BK.

Not 1 game or cherry picking 2 out of 3 seasons.

If he's so great, why aren't other schools trying to lure him away?
TyperWoods
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The snowflake is strong in this one.
mazag08
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AG
TyperWoods said:

The snowflake is strong in this one.


Lol. Whatever you say chump.
_lefraud_
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coastsrs said:

No opinion provided, just putting out information.

How many teams have been to the sweet 16 twice in past 3 years? Well you'd be surprised on the amount of repeat teams since 2016..

UNC
Michigan
Duke
Villanova
Florida
Gonzaga
West Virginia
Kansas
Syracuse
Oregon
Wisconsin
Purdue
....and Texas A&M

There's that.


Teams that failed to make the 2017 ncaa tournament after reaching the sweet sixteen in 2016...so there's that.

A&M
Oklahoma
Indiana
Syracuse
HDeathstar
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going 2 out 3 years should just make it easier for the next coach.
Method Man
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Amazing. We should extend Kennedy. Amazing coach. Just don't watch the games.
CDub06
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AG
If we're going to play this game, it's only fair to look at how many teams have made multiple Sweet 16s in the last 7 years. The sweet 16s were bright spots, but you can't throw away all of the complete failure.

You also can't take a look at the trajectory of this team and think another Sweet 16 is in our near future. It's been the ceiling in the past, but I think it'll be completely out of reach for a while now.
JDCAG (NOT Colin)
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TyperWoods said:

Assuming BK outcoached Roy Williams that game, THAT IN ITSELF is a fluke, given their careers.

I'm looking at 7 seasons of BK.

Not 1 game or cherry picking 2 out of 3 seasons.

If he's so great, why aren't other schools trying to lure him away?


Where did I say he was good or great?

I just said stop trying to dismiss a beat down of UNC. You sound like a petulant 5 year old.
CDub06
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Here, I did your homework for you.

Teams that have gone to 2 (or more) Sweet Sixteen games in the last 7 years.

Arizona (4)
Baylor (3)
Duke (4)
Florida (4)
Gonzaga (4)
Indiana (3)
Iowa State (2)
Kansas (5)
Kentucky (5)
Louisville (4)
Marquette (2)
Miami (2)
Michigan (4)
Michigan State (4)
NC State (2)
North Carolina (4)
Notre Dame (2)
Ohio State (3)
Oklahoma (2)
Oregon (3)
Purdue (2)
Syracuse (4)
Texas A&M (2)
UCLA (3)
Villanova (2)
Virginia (2)
West Virginia (3)
Wichita State (2)
Wisconsin (5)
Xavier (3)

Ok, so that's a pretty long list but not bad company.

Now here's what I want you to do. Show me a list of teams that have missed the field 5 of the last 7 years.
85AustinAg
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Can't we be excited but not satisfied about making two Sweet Sixteens? Who can't see that without significant talent that our coaching is not going to get us anything but inconsistent results? Our recruiting sucks right now because the recruiters of our talent are no longer on staff. I'm not satisfied and when I look forward know that we are in for a rough ride.

Heads are in the sand and we are blind with giddiness about our Sweet 16's if you can't see this.
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