Don't find myself agreeing with Hop too often on a lot of things, but he is spot on here. Say what you will about Kennedy's tenure as a whole or how things project in the future, but the issues with the team right now are pretty clear. Name a team in the country that could be down 3 starters and 60% of their scoring and still be competitive with the likes of Florida? Perhaps we aren't as deep or won't be able to rely on some of the young guys as heavily as we would like, but this team was elite before losing 3 starters. We should let the next few weeks play out before making sweeping generalizations regarding this season and its trajectory as a whole.Hop said:
You comprehend about 50% of what I say. I have been sending out warning signs about 2018 recruiting since the summer. I think the persistent suspensions are troubling.
For this season, I saw a team demolish West Virginia who hasn't lost since. I saw them easily handle OSU, Penn St., and USC on the road. Yes, they put together a very nice team and we were considered a Top 5 team and a projected 1/2 seed until the three top perimeter scorers missed the last two games. That is all fact. It can't be debated.
So many on this board are putting a lot more stock in the two losses without three veteran starters, and ignoring how the team performed the other 12 games. That is illogical.
Starks?
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Last: 6 yr ago by Method Man
Vegas knew we were down 3 starters for Florida and down 2 starters for Bama and had both lines under 5 pts. We got blown out by an average of 20 points.The idea that we were missing players so a blowout was inevitable is complete garbage. if we had lost both games by 5-7 points nobody would be very concerned. But we didn't even show up in either game and were blown out twice.
in short, missing those key players is absolutely an excuse for losing, but it is not an excuse for the team getting blown out by 20 in consecutive games.
in short, missing those key players is absolutely an excuse for losing, but it is not an excuse for the team getting blown out by 20 in consecutive games.
Re BK developing guards....looks like JJ Chandler is coming along nicely!
Duane Wilson has been great fitting in and running the team!
Gilder has been very good since he arrived.!
JJ Caldwell has potential if he keeps his off court biz clean.
I figure BK is an equal opportunity coach...some players play is the system, and some choose to do their own thing on and off the court...some weed themselves out of the program and out of the University.
Duane Wilson has been great fitting in and running the team!
Gilder has been very good since he arrived.!
JJ Caldwell has potential if he keeps his off court biz clean.
I figure BK is an equal opportunity coach...some players play is the system, and some choose to do their own thing on and off the court...some weed themselves out of the program and out of the University.
A gambling line is not Vegas' prediction of the margin of victory. It's something they set to try to get betters to put even money on both sides.
I agree that the games shouldn't have been blowouts, though (especially Alabama, which is nothing special).
I agree that the games shouldn't have been blowouts, though (especially Alabama, which is nothing special).
Hopefully cooler heads prevail.
By what I see Starks is one of the best pure scorers on the roster....need to find a way to get him involved
Vegas wants people to bet on the game. You are so dumb, in so many ways.expresswrittenconsent said:
Vegas knew we were down 3 starters for Florida and down 2 starters for Bama and had both lines under 5 pts. We got blown out by an average of 20 points.The idea that we were missing players so a blowout was inevitable is complete garbage. if we had lost both games by 5-7 points nobody would be very concerned. But we didn't even show up in either game and were blown out twice.
in short, missing those key players is absolutely an excuse for losing, but it is not an excuse for the team getting blown out by 20 in consecutive games.
and yet, i am smarter than a mouth breather like you.
in addition to vegas having both lines under 5, ESPN BPI, kenpom, and sagarin all had bama game as a pickem and florida game in the 4-6 pt range.
in addition to vegas having both lines under 5, ESPN BPI, kenpom, and sagarin all had bama game as a pickem and florida game in the 4-6 pt range.
peace said:
Did you intentionally leave Collins' stats off your listing?
Are you suggesting that Collins shooting stats are worse than TJ Starks? If so, do your homework and report back. If you don't report back I'll assume you're either too lazy or you found that Collins stats are better.
expresswrittenconsent said:
and yet, i am smarter than a mouth breather like you.
in addition to vegas having both lines under 5, ESPN BPI, kenpom, and sagarin all had bama game as a pickem and florida game in the 4-6 pt range.
Again, we shouldn't have been blown out by either team, but those sites are just as dumb as you are if they think we should be a pickem missing the players we were
This commentary on Starks is like re-arranging deck chairs on the TItanic. We are 1 -5 in conference with one home win on a lucky last minute shot ove a team we should have beat as bad as we beat #10 USC in November. This team is going down.
Not really. It's a style of play thing. He offers the attacking offense and aggressive defense that our whole team was playing early on and still should be playing.
I think it's easy to point out stats, but a guy like Starks can put the defense on their heels and that doesn't translate to stats. A coach with a strong hand would harness his skills but instead Kennedy just doesn't have that so he just sits him and he transfers. How can Cal get 8 five stars to play together is amazing.
Couldn't have said it better. This is the best post on this subject yet. Everyone (including Hop) keeps saying that he jacks up one shot every game early in the shot clock. So what? There are many terrible shots taken each game.Method Man said:
I think it's easy to point out stats, but a guy like Starks can put the defense on their heels and that doesn't translate to stats. A coach with a strong hand would harness his skills but instead Kennedy just doesn't have that so he just sits him and he transfers. How can Cal get 8 five stars to play together is amazing.
I think you're going to see a couple things moving forward...
1. I've made this comment on a few other subjects, but I think its coming. Starks playing alongside Wilson (when Gilder, Flagg need a break) so that Hogg can play a stretch 4 role. When he was playing really well early, Hogg was drawing bigger defenders away from the basket and forcing them to guard him on the perimeter. With Starks playing alongside Wilson, you'll also see Starks pick up 94 feet, bringing some pressure to the defensive side of the ball (which is something he did very well early in the season when Caldwell was suspended).
2. Starks brings you a scoring punch that Caldwell doesn't...although Caldwell is the better pg from a playmaking standpoint. Bottom line is that you have two point guards in the same class, the coaching staff is going to have to either a) figure out how to play them together or b) be okay with one of them being disgruntled and or transferring. That unfortunately is the world we live in with college basketball. I think there is a scenario where they play together moving forward, but its going to be difficult to convince one to sit while they other plays.
3. Comparing A&M to UK and Kennedy to Cal just doesn't add up as these programs are in different places and probably, will always be. There is a lot that can be said on that topic, but I'll leave it at that.
The UT loss and Alabama loss are disappointing but, they are both on the road. Key in the SEC and all major DI leagues...win your home games, split your road games. The Aggies have a big one this Saturday vs Missouri and need to pick up the win @ LSU (and they lost to LSU at the buzzer without 3 starters).
Starks can help, but the staff has to be comfortable putting him in. Missouri's guards will bring some pressure, this might be a game that he gets to show he can handle it.
1. I've made this comment on a few other subjects, but I think its coming. Starks playing alongside Wilson (when Gilder, Flagg need a break) so that Hogg can play a stretch 4 role. When he was playing really well early, Hogg was drawing bigger defenders away from the basket and forcing them to guard him on the perimeter. With Starks playing alongside Wilson, you'll also see Starks pick up 94 feet, bringing some pressure to the defensive side of the ball (which is something he did very well early in the season when Caldwell was suspended).
2. Starks brings you a scoring punch that Caldwell doesn't...although Caldwell is the better pg from a playmaking standpoint. Bottom line is that you have two point guards in the same class, the coaching staff is going to have to either a) figure out how to play them together or b) be okay with one of them being disgruntled and or transferring. That unfortunately is the world we live in with college basketball. I think there is a scenario where they play together moving forward, but its going to be difficult to convince one to sit while they other plays.
3. Comparing A&M to UK and Kennedy to Cal just doesn't add up as these programs are in different places and probably, will always be. There is a lot that can be said on that topic, but I'll leave it at that.
The UT loss and Alabama loss are disappointing but, they are both on the road. Key in the SEC and all major DI leagues...win your home games, split your road games. The Aggies have a big one this Saturday vs Missouri and need to pick up the win @ LSU (and they lost to LSU at the buzzer without 3 starters).
Starks can help, but the staff has to be comfortable putting him in. Missouri's guards will bring some pressure, this might be a game that he gets to show he can handle it.
-John Pugliese
@johnpugliese
Sin City Resident
@johnpugliese
Sin City Resident
Method Man said:
I think it's easy to point out stats, but a guy like Starks can put the defense on their heels and that doesn't translate to stats. A coach with a strong hand would harness his skills but instead Kennedy just doesn't have that so he just sits him and he transfers. How can Cal get 8 five stars to play together is amazing.
Sure, stats don't always tell the full story, and I agree that Starks has really show flashes where you think "yeah, that guy attacks and plays aggressive and I like that ...
But when every single statistical category (other than Assist %) shows that Starks this season has been and is an offensive black hole and statistically one of our worst defenders.
Kennedy's development of TJ and "TJ needs to play a lot more right now" are 2 different conversations, IMO. I'm baffled at the fact that Kennedy can't get Starks to listen and play like he should. That's on both of them.
But the only way to justify wanting him to play more is a blind belief that "he won't be that bad again." And that's crazy. After 2 decent games against LSU and UK, he gets into the game against Tennessee and IMMEDIATELY takes an off balance, contested 2 that misses badly and results in an easy basket the other way. Unbelievable
Right now, the kid isn't learning and Kennedy isn't doing his job of teaching him. But it's simply blind BK hate and wishful thinking to believe that Starks will do much more than take the most shots and shoot 33% when he does, because that is what he has been doing all year.
You can't use the argument that Davis shouldn't have shot the FTs against LSU (we have seen him make them) and then also say Starks should play more. They are completely opposite arguments coming out of the same peoples mouths.
Also, shouldn't Starks' "ability to put a defense on their heels" translate to stats? If it doesn't, then why is this a relevant argument?
His +/- is 11th or 12th on the team. That is what that stat measures - performance on the court. So when Starks is on the court, he makes the team worse, whatever he is doing.
His +/- is 11th or 12th on the team. That is what that stat measures - performance on the court. So when Starks is on the court, he makes the team worse, whatever he is doing.
This is where I'm at. I was in love with Starks' athleticism + aggressiveness those first few weeks, but he has struggled harnessing that ability for the good of the team.austinaggie2008 said:
Also, shouldn't Starks' "ability to put a defense on their heels" translate to stats? If it doesn't, then why is this a relevant argument?
No. Stats are a part of the picture.
Stats are part of the picture only when you can use some to justify a positive opinion but others point to a negative one. With Starks, there aren't ANY statistics that show he is providing positive value right now to the team.Method Man said:
No. Stats are a part of the picture.
You say that Starks provides value by "putting the defense on their heels," and by that I assume you mean while attacking the basket. I'll buy that, in its simplest terms, because my eye balls tell me that as well, at least so much as to say that Starks shows a willingness to attack the basket and try to score more than Caldwell and Chandler, possibly on par with Wilson.
So lets take the next logical step "putting the defense on their heels" is only a positive if positive results come from that, right? So, there isn't a stat that can directly point to "putting a defense on their heels," but we can look at stats that may come as a result, right?
So, to start, if you stress the defense, you probably get a lot of looks?
- Starks leads the team in attempts per 40 min (18.5), so, yes
And, its reasonable to say that if you are taking the most shots, you probably do (or should) be making a decent percentage of them (say, 40% or more, overall)?
- On those 18.5 shots per 40 min, TJ is shooting 31%. Thats real bad.
But OK wait, maybe he is getting fouled and not making the shots, but makes up for it in FTs.
- Starks is averaging 2.8 FT attempts per 40 minutes. Also REALLY BAD, considering he is taking 18.5 shots per 40 min and making less than 6 of them.
What about Assists?
- Per 40, he is averaging 2.9 assists and 3.7 turnovers. Caldwell, who has played 30 more minutes total, is averaging 6.5 and 3.2, respectively, and Chandler, who has played 9 less minutes total, is averaging 2.7 and 2.7.
So, that means 1 of 2 things:
1) Starks is taking a lot of bad shots where he isn't going to get fouled, and he is missing them.
2) Starks is driving the lane A LOT, missing those shots or having them blocked and not being fouled.
Even if its No. 2, which would further support the "stresses the defense" theory, he still isn't making the shots. And its not like the isn't getting enough shots, because he is, CLEARLY.
So you say stats are only part of the picture with Starks. Well, how can you honestly paint a picture of his value to the team as it is right now (or, maybe better yet, his value to the team so far this year, because I do believe he can get better, as he is making all the classic freshmen mistakes) while ignoring the stats?
The "intangibles" or "non-measurables" are great to talk about, but they are only valid points when they, in some way, contribute to or add up to value for the team. In basketball, that is scoring efficiently, assisting teammates and not turning it over, and playing good defense.
The "intangibles" that you are all talking about aren't adding up to any things that actually help us. Who gives an F if Starks "puts pressure on the defense" if, when he does that, he only makes 31% of his attempts and shoots less than 3 FTs? How does that help the team? Those stats wouldn't be horrible if the attempts weren't so high, but he has taken SO MANY shots for the amount of time he is playing.
The fact is, Starks has averaged 14.5 mpg in the 15 games he has played in, and he is taking almost 7 shots per game. In less than 15 minutes. And he is making about 2 of them. So it is taking him 7 shots each game to score about 4.5 points. That is the definition of inefficient.
That's a lot of words but at least you were finally able to make a post about Starks where you don't insist that anyone who disagrees with you is a coward.
I disagree.
Players that have left the Aggie basketball program in the last 4 years.
Alex Robinson G transferred to TCU has started 31 of 39 games there.
Mychal J Reese G transferred to North Texas and led the team in scoring his Jr and SR. year
One of the reasons Kennedy said that we didn't win last year was lack of guard play . The guards were here and they left. Would Kennedy say that Alex Robinson lacked Character and Attitude ?
Elijah Robinson PF transferred to Clemson who is currently the leading Offensive and Defensive rebounder on the 15-2 team.
Alex Robinson G transferred to TCU has started 31 of 39 games there.
Mychal J Reese G transferred to North Texas and led the team in scoring his Jr and SR. year
One of the reasons Kennedy said that we didn't win last year was lack of guard play . The guards were here and they left. Would Kennedy say that Alex Robinson lacked Character and Attitude ?
Elijah Robinson PF transferred to Clemson who is currently the leading Offensive and Defensive rebounder on the 15-2 team.
Method Man said:
I disagree.
With what stat do you disagree ?? I am curious
Everything points to negative except he is agressive on a generally passive team
I agree, we have a poor coach who lacks any emotion and provides little inspiration. He is not a leader.Method Man said:
I think it's easy to point out stats, but a guy like Starks can put the defense on their heels and that doesn't translate to stats. A coach with a strong hand would harness his skills but instead Kennedy just doesn't have that so he just sits him and he transfers. How can Cal get 8 five stars to play together is amazing.
I sat and watched the Florida game and was mad he got benched because I think he can do a lot of good with his attacking the basket. The stats tell me that he is really playing poorly and shouldn't see the court...I think it's somewhere in between but I'm starting to come around as to why he isn't playing much
I would be in favor of putting him in midway through the first half of Mizzou if we have the lead. Still think he has something unique to offer the team this season. Short leash though. No deep shots early in shot clock, no trying to shoot layups over 6'11" guys, and good attitude
I disagree with the conclusion, not the measurements. I also consider that with a more structured coach who had players that listened to him he would be doing better. That isn't measurable because I'm projecting based on a skill set. Also it should be noted that we aren't robots. We grow. We do better with more reps and acclimate to a new system.
He has great potential but you have to weigh potential against need. We don't NEED out of control poor field goal percentage in a tight game. He could be a stud for the next two three years but this year Wilson is a better option and Caldwell is a less risk adverse option as a back up and you can always play Gilder at the point for some minutes. Starks takes the most shots per minute played and has the worst field goal percentage of those getting any real minutes. Why is that combination a great thing in the eyes of some people ? Because he is flashy? Because he can beat his man off the dribble and get to the hole? Those are the thins that are great if he can finish either with a pass or a shot that goes in. Neither of those things are happening so it becomes a poor shot selection and turnovers
I think he will be Wilson 2.0 if he matures his game and that is a GREAT thing for the future
I think he will be Wilson 2.0 if he matures his game and that is a GREAT thing for the future
Higher ceiling than Wilson. Agree entirely with everything else you said though.Wicked Good Ag said:
He has great potential but you have to weigh potential against need. We don't NEED out of control poor field goal percentage in a tight game. He could be a stud for the next two three years but this year Wilson is a better option and Caldwell is a less risk adverse option as a back up and you can always play Gilder at the point for some minutes. Starks takes the most shots per minute played and has the worst field goal percentage of those getting any real minutes. Why is that combination a great thing in the eyes of some people ? Because he is flashy? Because he can beat his man off the dribble and get to the hole? Those are the thins that are great if he can finish either with a pass or a shot that goes in. Neither of those things are happening so it becomes a poor shot selection and turnovers
I think he will be Wilson 2.0 if he matures his game and that is a GREAT thing for the future
When did Kennedy replace all 5 with walk-ons this year like Billy Clyde once did? And have you ever called for Hogg to be benched off the bat like I and a lot of us have? If so link it up.Hop said:
If it were me, he would have come out after the first possession when he jacked it up the first time he touched the ball. This isn't a one-time thing. He has constantly taken bad shots early in the shot clock and we know the coaches have been talking to him about running the offense as designed. If they don't listen to you on practice, then your only option as a coach is to bench a player that isn't doing what you ask and hoping that will send the right message.
I remember one time BCG didn't like how the starting five came out to play one game, so he replaced all five with all walk-ons to send a message. When BCG does it, he's a genius. When Kennedy does it, he's a moron.
Exhibit A of hilarity. B is coming...
No, that wasn't the end of thread. It was you looking at numbers based on a freshman in limited minutes never able to get in the rythym that so many others in this thread were hoping to see.mallen said:You are correct, sir. Once you really look at the numbers over the season you will see why Starks was benched and rightfully so.500,000ags said:
Starks probably played into BK's issues last night. I think he took 3 shots in a row during his first few minutes.
It's pretty simple statistical analysis and I'm sure the coaches don't even have to run the numbers to know that something is off with Starks. In simple terms, Starks takes WAY MORE SHOTS per minute than any other Aggie on the team including DJ Hogg, Tyler Davis, Admon Gilder, and Robert Williams.
That alone wouldn't be so bad if Starks didn't also have the WORST SHOOTING percentage on the team BY FAR. Those two statistics combined make it a NO BRAINER for any coach to sit Starks until he buys into the team concept. Starks is literally the worst shooter on the team yet he shoots at a greater rate than any other Aggie.
Here are the numbers:
FGA Per Minute
1. TJ Starks - 0.47
2. Tyler Davis - 0.35
3. JJ Chandler - 0.35
4. Duane Wilson - 0.34
5. DJ Hogg - 0.32
6. Tonny Trocha - 0.30
7. Admon Gilder - 0.30
8. Robert Williams - 0.27
FG %
1. Tyler Davis - .596
2. Robert Williams - .592
3. Admon Gilder - .489
4. Savion Flagg - .480
5. DJ Hogg - .468
6. Duane Wilson - .442
7. JJ Chandler - .438
11. TJ Starks -.310
After looking at these numbers, can someone explain to me WHY THE HECK you would continue to give TJ Starks significant minutes if he continues to take shots without feeding the high percentage shooters?
If Kennedy DID NOT sit Starks then one might question his coaching competency, but to question his competency for benching Starks is just plain stupid.
******END OF THREAD******
And just like that, **********START OF SEASON***********
Might hurt my shoulder from patting myself on the back.
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