Which one of these two Aggie basketball frontlines would you rather have?

2,166 Views | 39 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by SECTAMU#1
Pumpkinhead
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
If you could enter the season with either one of the below two rosters for your PF/C positions, which one would you pick to go with?


2007-2008 Basketball Roster (this was Mark Turgeon's first season)

Joseph Jones (senior, 6'9")
DeAndre Jordan (freshman, 7'0")
Bryan Davis (sophomore, 6'9")
Chinemelu Elonu (sophomore, 6'10")


20017-2018 Basketball Roster

Tyler Davis (junior, 6'10")
Robert Williams (sophomore, 6'9")
Tonny Trocha (senior, 6'10")
Isiah Jasey (freshman, 6'9")
bingram1230
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
This might be a personal preference but if I had just the 2 starters I'd take the 2017 roster, but I like Bryan Davis and Elonu a lot more than Trocha and our freshman post so I might go with the 07-08 roster. If we get 2016 Trocha next year over last years version, my opinion might change.
bobinator
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
That's a hard question because Turgeon sort of botched the '07-'08 frontcourt. So there's what we know happened in '07-'08 vs what could happen this year, and I think most people are going to tend to be optimistic about this upcoming season and remember the faults with that season.

Elonu was basically a non-factor that year, his stat line was on par with Tavario Miller's last year, so you're really talking about Jones-Jordan-Davis.

I'm taking '17-'18 because I think Tyler Davis is better than Jones and Williams is better than Jordan and that's the majority of your minutes, but Davis was better than Trocha and I'm not really including Jasey vs Elonu.
GE
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
2017 easy.
Pumpkinhead
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
, bobinator said:

That's a hard question because Turgeon sort of botched the '07-'08 frontcourt. So there's what we know happened in '07-'08 vs what could happen this year, and I think most people are going to tend to be optimistic about this upcoming season and remember the faults with that season.
Yeah, Turgeon 'inherited' that frontline and successful program coming off a Sweet Sixteen as BCG bolted to Kentucky, and some of the transition and relationships did seem pretty rocky. Do remember that frontline though absolutely demolishing opponents at times (Ohio State in that Pre-Season NIT never knew what hit them, and also remember getting up by 20 in the first half @Arizona with lots of dunks and blocks before their guards such as Bayless turned the tables on us).
CactusThomas
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
GE said:

2017 easy.


Yep.

Unless we're talking about 2017 DeAndre.
85AustinAg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Rudy Woods, Rynn Wright, Vernon Smith...
Pumpkinhead
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
85AustinAg said:

Rudy Woods, Rynn Wright, Vernon Smith...
Doing a quick check of those guys...Rynn Wright was only listed at 6'6" and Vernon Smith at 6'8". Woods was 6'11". Obviously when you start comparing rosters in very different eras, it gets a lot harder. The style of the games, the scheduling, and the athletes have changed so much. That 1981-1982 front line does look like physically would have been smaller and not as long overall as the two front lines in my OP.
EliteZags
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Andy Slocum, Tomas Ress, Jesse King, Luis Clemente
Goose
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Excellent hypothetical, OP.
greg.w.h
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
2007-2008 with BCG as HC. Since we are choosing.
greg.w.h
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Pumpkinhead said:

85AustinAg said:

Rudy Woods, Rynn Wright, Vernon Smith...
Doing a quick check of those guys...Rynn Wright was only listed at 6'6" and Vernon Smith at 6'8". Woods was 6'11". Obviously when you start comparing rosters in very different eras, it gets a lot harder. The style of the games, the scheduling, and the athletes have changed so much. That 1981-1982 front line does look like physically would have been smaller and not as long overall as the two front lines in my OP.


Woods was tiny compared to T Davis, Williams, and Jones. He was similar to Trocha body-wise but was a rim protector (imagine Trocha doing that.)
GrayMatter
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Funny because I was just looking at Joe Jones stats and was surprised that his senior numbers weren't all that great which led me to conclude that Turgeon didn't know what to do with this front court.

I'm gonna go with 2017; I think this group is a bit more versatile but really it's because Davis/Williams combo is hard to vote against.
bobinator
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
To be fair, I'm not knocking Turgeon really. He was a first year coach and those are the kinds of problems you face sometimes. He probably expected Jordan to be better than he was (or at least more willing than he was) and he probably didn't realize how to best use Joseph Jones coming in. Plus Bryan Davis hardly played the year before also so he probably didn't really know what to expect with him either.

I think if the hypothetical is rephrased that like... you're Coach K and you can pick of those two lineups which would you pick then it's a lot closer.

I'd still go with 17-18, but it's worth considering what Jordan could have done if he was bought into the coach all the way.
Pumpkinhead
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
bobinator said:

To be fair, I'm not knocking Turgeon really. He was a first year coach and those are the kinds of problems you face sometimes. He probably expected Jordan to be better than he was (or at least more willing than he was) and he probably didn't realize how to best use Joseph Jones coming in. Plus Bryan Davis hardly played the year before also so he probably didn't really know what to expect with him either.

I think if the hypothetical is rephrased that like... you're Coach K and you can pick of those two lineups which would you pick then it's a lot closer.

I'd still go with 17-18, but it's worth considering what Jordan could have done if he was bought into the coach all the way.
Yeah, my hypothetical was more 'You just got hired as the Texas A&M head basketball coach and these are the two possible rosters that you can pick from for your PF/C positions. Which would you choose?'.
Method Man
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Do we get to pick who is coaching them?
GE
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I would take Trocha as a senior over Freshman Jordan or Sophomore Davis.
Pumpkinhead
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Method Man said:

Do we get to pick who is coaching them?
Assume it is yourself Method Man. You just got hired as the head coach. Which PF/C roster do you feel better about getting the most out of your first year?
bobinator
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I think choosing between this year's guards/wings and that year's might be interesting also. That group wasn't elite, but you pretty much knew what you were getting.

So would you rather take a good-but-not-great group of guards to pair with your chosen front court or roll the dice with this year's group and see what happens.

Basically you're talking sophomore Sloan and Roland, Junior Carter and senior Kirk vs the fleet of Freshman and Gilder and Hogg.
bobinator
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
GE said:

I would take Trocha as a senior over Freshman Jordan or Sophomore Davis.
Really?
old yeller
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
85AustinAg said:

Rudy Woods, Rynn Wright, Vernon Smith...
And Claude Riley. I'd put that foursome up against either of the other groups. They are all damn good.
Pumpkinhead
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Here were DeAndre Jordan's numbers in the 2008 NBA combine, to illustrate the type of physical specimen you are comparing at that point to Robert Williams:

Quote:

DeAndre Jordan came in an inch short at 6-11, but has an outrageous 7-6 wingspan and 9-5 standing reach that more than compensates. He jumped poorly at 30.5 inches, lifted the bar 8 times, and ran the drills in 12.3 and 3.27 seconds. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Entire-NBA-Pre-Draft-Camp-Measurements,-Combine-Results-Released-2911/


Robert Williams is 6'9", 7-4 wingspan and has a vertical somewhere in the 40+" range.
bobinator
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
That's kind of what I was getting at. Any pick for the 2007-08 team would rest on the belief that you could get Jordan to play harder than he did that season. Otherwise I think it's pretty clearly '17-'18 right?
isitjustme
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Any of 3 already mentioned + Roger Bock. He was the man we always chanted for at G Rollie my first 2 years here.
phorizt
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Joe Jones had old man knees/feet by his senior year and wasn't quite the same as soph Jones. Not really Turges fault.
bobinator
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
phorizt said:

Joe Jones had old man knees/feet by his senior year and wasn't quite the same as soph Jones. Not really Turges fault.
This gets said a lot, but I don't think it's really true. He might have lost some explosiveness he had early on, but Joe was still getting paid to play over 30 mins/game last year in Tehran. So if his knees are still holding up almost ten years later, they couldn't have been too bad in 2008. He always ran with sort of a limp anyway, kind of reminds me of how Martellus runs sometimes.

I think it was more a combination of Turgeon expecting more out of Jordan and not really knowing how to use Jones best. Plus knowing that Jones was a senior that year anyway, developing Joe probably wasn't a big priority for him.
Know Your Enemy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
GE said:

I would take Trocha as a senior over Freshman Jordan or Sophomore Davis.

This has to be a joke, right?
EliteZags
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
EliteZags said:

Andy Slocum, Tomas Ress, Jesse King, Luis Clemente

can you imagine if you could pair those beasts with an all-time great backcourt of say, Acie Law and Antoine Wright,
that squad could really make some noise in March
GE
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Junkhead said:

GE said:

I would take Trocha as a senior over Freshman Jordan or Sophomore Davis.
This has to be a joke, right?
Compare their stats that year to his last year and build in growth for him going into his senior season. It's not obvious what the answer is. He makes great passes, can play more of a true four with somewhat of a midrange game and ability to take the ball to the bucket, and won't be forced into playing the 3 this season.

I dont think he'll get as much run this season as last season but think he will have a better year than either of those guys did that year
EliteZags
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
can't just compare averages, Trocha also played more minutes and was less efficient
if you can find +/- somewhere that will tell you more, but Davis shot about 33% better and DJ shot about 50% better thn Tonny last season
_lefraud_
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Joe over Davis
RW over Jordan
BD and Trocha is a push
Chin over Jasey

For me it comes down to Joe. He was such a load on the defense end and just so reliable game in and game out. I'd say he is the most established, polished player of everyone listed, therefore I give the edge to 07-08.
GrayMatter
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
_lefraud_ said:

Joe over Davis
RW over Jordan
BD and Trocha is a push
Chin over Jasey

For me it comes down to Joe. He was such a load on the defense end and just so reliable game in and game out. I'd say he is the most established, polished player of everyone listed, therefore I give the edge to 07-08.
I'd say you have a sound argument with Joe, but we're comparing 07-08 Joe versus 2017 Davis. Joe wasn't the same player as a senior as he was a junior/sophomore. Right now Davis is on par with Jones, but he's also got 2 years left so we know he's going to get better.
GrayMatter
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
One of the things I had forgotten was during that 07-08 season, Jones played PF and Jordan played C. I'm not sure if it would have mattered, but I would have kept Jones at the C and played Jordan at PF.
wacarnolds
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
2017-2018
Pumpkinhead
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I agree that although Joseph Jones seemed to be dealing with some knee pain later in his college career, he was still drawing a paycheck from people to play basketball at age 31 last season.

Specifically comparing Joe (2008) and Tyler Davis (2017), both are big physical boys who enjoy pushing people around. Tyler is about an inch taller and both 260+ lb loads to deal with inside.

Both guys have 'below the rim' games, but with big soft hands and good post footwork. *Maybe* Tyler has a few post tricks that Joe doesn't have, but Jones has a better mid-range/outside shot if you have him outside the paint.

In terms of just running up and down the court (mobility) neither runs like a deer but I'd give Davis (particularly with his current slimmed down look) and pain-free knees the edge there.

It is a close call for me personally having to pick one. I think I'd probably lean towards Davis.
Page 1 of 2
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.