Williams vs Porter Jr

3,464 Views | 44 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by bobinator
bobinator
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AG
How is your conclusion supported by evidence? Statistically they were roughly equal last season, Davis averaged a couple more points, Williams averaged slightly more rebounds and way more blocks. I'm not sure that's enough evidence to support a theory that Williams is more valuable to the team. Especially when part of my entire argument rests on something that won't really have any empirical evidence. You can't measure how much better Williams' season was because Davis is on the team, and vice versa.

(For the record, I'm assuming you mean "valuable to the program" in basketball terms only. We're not talking about selling tickets or media mentions or anything. That would be a whole different thing.)

I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong. I disagree with what you're saying but I'm not saying I'm definitely right. I'm just saying I don't think either position in this particular debate has much evidence to this point.
GrayMatter
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AG
I see what you're saying Bob, but after this year you'd be hard pressed to say that Davis is a better player than Williams. After 2 years, we kinda know what we're getting with Davis, but we don't know Williams' ceiling just yet. Having Williams on the floor, I saw our opponents shy away from going to the paint and there's not really a stat for that unless you're counting bad shots taken by the other team or shot clock violations. HOWEVER, Davis is part of a dying breed of basketball and one that cannot be overlooked.

blah blah blah blah

Both of these guys will, arguably (of course), go down as some of the best big men to have ever played for A&M.

And I'll follow it up by saying this: if there is a weakness in our team, it is not in the front court.
bobinator
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AG
We've sort of gotten off track because the original argument wasn't really about which player is "better." I even conceded that Williams might already be better than Davis, and I agree he'll probably be better next year, but I think Davis has a rarer skill set which is why I'd pick him for my super team before Williams. I think there are players in college basketball this year who will do what Williams does better than Williams like Ayton and Bamba.

But now we're sort of talking about which player is more valuable, and I still think it's Davis, but I can see the argument for Williams also. In my opinion, Davis' impact on the game plus how much better he makes the team around him is greater than William's ability and how much better he makes the team even if Williams' ability is better than Davis'.

The argument for Williams is definitely more straightforward though. He simply impacts the game more himself, which makes him more valuable. Like, if he weren't there and were replaced with an average player, then it wouldn't matter how much Davis helps.
jml2621
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Hop said:

bobinator said:

Bamba is 3 inches taller than Williams (according to the Nike Skills Academy) and they're basically the same player otherwise. I don't see a problem with that.

If I were building the perfect college basketball team I'd probably pick Tyler Davis before Williams.


Williams has a freakish wingspan so he plays like a 6-11/7-footer. Williams is one of the best natural collegiate shot blockers since Ewing and his presence on the defensive end is intimidating to all five players on the other team.

No, Williams is clearly the best asset of the two, and that says a lot because Davis us a damn good player as well...but he's not Robert Williams.

Damn, hop. That is CORRECT.
jml2621
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Method Man said:

HEs like ben Simmons but good.

This
jml2621
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bobinator said:

I just think Davis is a rarer college basketball player. There's usually 4-5 guys each year that are raw hyper athletic dunkers like Williams, but bigs with good fundamentals in the low block are a lot rarer.

If I were starting an NBA team I'd obviously pick Williams, but if I was drafting a college basketball team, I think I want Davis.

Davis would be more valuable 10-20 years ago. I'm delighted to have him. Just not a lot of RW's around ever.


No doubt that going into RW's year 2, Davis is a better PLAYER.

I did like what I saw from Williams as the year progressed. He was thinking and communicating more on the court. If he develops a midrange or outside shot before the season, watch out. Dude is just a Freak. We're lucky in that both can be out together. Tyler is smart enough to stay out of RW's way and let their games compliment each other.
Hop
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Staff
AG
bobinator said:

Maybe. Like I said, if he comes back from the summer with any sort of consistent offensive game, be it a few reliable low post moves or a decent jumper, then he definitely could be that good. But right now?

Anyway, there are definitely good arguments for Williams being more valuable than Davis. He's way more athletic, so we can speed the game up with our young but deep backcourt and he'll probably only get better the faster the game gets. So he's probably more versatile than Davis because he can be effective at any tempo. He also showed the beginnings of a jumpshot toward the end of last season so it isn't a giant leap to think he comes back with it this fall.

One of them influences the game more on the offensive end, the other on the defensive end. That's sort of the beauty of having them both is they're the yin and yang of quality post play. For me, Davis is slightly more valuable than Williams right now for reasons I've already explained, but that could change this season for sure.

But I definitely disagree with the notion that if we reach unprecedented heights it will be on Williams' back. He's definitely going to be a workhorse for us, but so is Davis. For that matter so is Gilder, but Williams and Davis could both be exactly as good as they were last year and we could still have the best team we've ever had if our guards are good.

I think what he is saying (and I agree) is if A&M is going to beat the Kentuckys, Arizonas, Kansas's, and then any game on the second or third weekend of the NCAA's, it's because Williams will be the athlete and the player who can favorably match up with the 1st round/all-American studs on these blue blood teams that A&M must beat to have a special season. Davis can beat players in the paint with his physicality, his ability to seal and use positioning better than just about any college post in the game, but he can't go above the rim to challenge the elite post players on the blue blood teams that do play above the rim.

Texas A&M will be good and a likely tourney team because Tyler Davis is a good post player. Texas A&M will be an elite team competing w/ the blue bloods next season if Williams lives up to his potential as an elite player in the paint. I don't think A&M can be an elite team nationally if Williams is not playing a significant role.
Serious Lee
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from a coaching standpoint, do you scheme around williams or davis?

i love williams but he absolutely benefits more from davis than vice versa.
bobinator
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AG
Hop said:


Texas A&M will be an elite team competing w/ the blue bloods next season if Williams lives up to his potential as an elite player in the paint. I don't think A&M can be an elite team nationally if Williams is not playing a significant role.

Obviously we're not going to be elite if Williams isn't playing a significant role. Nobody said his role isn't vital to us being good.

What I'm saying is I think we could compete with the blue blood teams even if Davis and Williams aren't that much better than they were last year. They were both elite players at their positions last season even with our absolute lack of a backcourt, so they could stay exactly the same and I still think they'd be good enough to make us an elite team if our guards are good.

Imagine how much better they both could have been if we wouldn't have been one of the worst three point shooting teams in the country last season.

Now obviously I don't think they're both going to stay the same, I expect we'll see some improvement out of both of them which will make our guards' lives easier.
GrayMatter
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AG
Uncle Gunnysack said:

from a coaching standpoint, do you scheme around williams or davis?

i love williams but he absolutely benefits more from davis than vice versa.
You disguise it by scheming for Davis because he commands the ball in the low block, but you send Williams in numerous pick and roll situations and you let the other team pick their poison. You let Williams roam around anywhere he wants and give him space to create and/or come off of back door picks for lobs.

I'd also love to see some high low game to let Williams create.

You gotta get creative because you know other teams are going to pack the paint so how about a Williams-Davis pick and roll situation and you have 3 point shooters all around them?

But I know what you're thinking.... teams are gonna zone us to death so what now? Put Williams in the high post and once the zone collapses it will be a free for all and we'll need him to make the right pass for an easy bucket or an open shot.
bobinator
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AG
I think he meant the other team, but that's still a good answer. Our shooters are going to be wide open a lot because it takes three people to guard Davis and Williams, they just have to make shots. Especially if either one of them can be even halfway effective from the high post.
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