Rules changes for 17-18

bobinator
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Welp, what do we think? I've bolded the ones I think could be important. They also talked about some longer term changes like widening the lane and moving the three point line out.

2017-18 Rules Recommendations

The committee's rules proposals must be approved by the NCAA Playing Rules Oversight Panel, which is scheduled to discuss the men's basketball rules recommendations June 13. The committee's recommendations are:

  • Extend the coach's box to 38 feet for the 2017-18 season. The coach's box is now 28 feet. Committee members believe this will allow coaches to improve communication with their teams. "We believe this change will help our coaches, particularly when the ball is at the opposite end of the floor," Dambrot said.
  • Reset the shot clock to 20 seconds when the ball is inbounded in the front court after a foul or other violation by the defense, such as a kicked ball. If more than 20 seconds remains on the shot clock, the shot clock will not be reset.
  • Make throw-in spots more consistent in the front court. The location of all throw-ins in the front court will be determined by the current rule, defined as an imaginary line from the corner of the court to the intersection of the lane line and the free-throw line. If the stoppage of play is inside this area, the throw-in will occur on the end line three feet outside the lane line. If the stoppage occurs outside this area, the throw-in will be at the nearest sideline at the 28-foot mark. Deflections will continue to be put back in play at the nearest out-of-bounds spot. Throw-ins in the back court will continue to be at the nearest spot.
  • Allow referees to use the instant replay rule in the last two minutes of the second half or last two minutes of overtime to see if a secondary defender was in or outside the restricted-area arc. If the player is in the restricted area, a block will be called on the defender. If the secondary defender is in legal guarding position and outside the restricted area, a player control foul will be called. The Big Ten and Mid-American conferences experimented with this rule last season.
  • A mandatory minimum of 0.3 second be taken off the game clock when the ball is legally touched.
  • Redefine a legal screen to require that the inside of the screener's feet be no wider than his shoulders.
  • Adjust the officiating guidance in relation to the cylinder rule. If a defensive player straddles an offensive player's leg in a way that prohibits him from making a normal basketball move which now includes pivoting contact that creates a common foul will be called on the defensive player.
  • Approve the Southeastern Conference's request to use a separate individual or individuals to collaborate with the on-court officials on all monitor reviews during their league games during the 2017-18 season. This collaboration will take place from a central location that is not at the game site.

Source
bobinator
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I like the SEC having someone involved with reviews that isn't on the court.

As for their "longer-term" proposals, I don't understand why the size of the court itself isn't up for debate. If the goal of these potential changes is to create space, then why not cut out the middle man and literally make more space? Make the court wider and longer.
wacarnolds
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bobinator said:

I like the SEC having someone involved with reviews that isn't on the court.

As for their "longer-term" proposals, I don't understand why the size of the court itself isn't up for debate. If the goal of these potential changes is to create space, then why not cut out the middle man and literally make more space? Make the court wider and longer.
Court size works perfectly fine in the NBA, so calling for a bigger court makes no sense.
wacarnolds
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bobinator said:

  • Reset the shot clock to 20 seconds when the ball is inbounded in the front court after a foul or other violation by the defense, such as a kicked ball. If more than 20 seconds remains on the shot clock, the shot clock will not be reset.

Does it currently reset to 30 seconds? In favor of reducing the time added to a possession that is wasted away dribbling at half court.
wacarnolds
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They didn't mention the team fouls resetting at the 10 min mark, which they experimented with during the NIT. Guess they shelved that idea.
bobinator
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The NBA has a couple of things that make the court size work. For one, there's the defensive three seconds rule. The other is that NBA shooters are so good that you pretty much have to guard everyone, so spacing isn't as much of an issue.
bobinator
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I think the current reset is 15.
wacarnolds
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bobinator said:

The NBA has a couple of things that make the court size work. For one, there's the defensive three seconds rule. The other is that NBA shooters are so good that you pretty much have to guard everyone, so spacing isn't as much of an issue.
So continue to massage the college rules in order to make the game better offensively. Increasing the court size seems like an absurd solution that would do nothing to create additional spacing.
wacarnolds
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bobinator said:

I think the current reset is 15.
So they're adding more time? Meh.
bobinator
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I'd also argue against the notion that the court in the NBA works perfectly. I don't like that a three from the corner is shorter than a three from the top of the key.
wacarnolds
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bobinator said:

I'd also argue against the notion that the court in the NBA works perfectly. I don't like that a three from the corner is shorter than a three from the top of the key.
Do you also not like that a layup counts the same as an 18 ft jumper?
wacarnolds
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And I didn't mean "perfectly fine" as "perfectly". Rather, it works very well with no serious issues.
Hop
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bobinator said:

I think the current reset is 15.
That's a kicked ball only. A foul resets to 30 seconds. I dislike that new rule.
bobinator
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wacarnolds said:

bobinator said:

I'd also argue against the notion that the court in the NBA works perfectly. I don't like that a three from the corner is shorter than a three from the top of the key.
Do you also not like that a layup counts the same as an 18 ft jumper?
That's different. Every 18 foot jumper counts for the same amount of points, as does any layup. However a 23 ft shoot from one part of the court can count for fewer points than an 23 ft jumper from another part of the court.
bobinator
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Hop said:

bobinator said:

I think the current reset is 15.
That's a kicked ball only. A foul resets to 30 seconds. I dislike that new rule.
Good call. why do you dislike it? I don't think a team in the front court needs a whole 30 seconds.
greg.w.h
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I like the .3 second rolloff. No one needs homer scorers or refs.

The roaming HC should have access to the entire sideline and end court if the court design is like Vandy's (which should be forcibly changed by rules if their court is modified in any way including new hardwood.)

Replay rules to clarify things like defender or secondary defender positioning seem all right though I tend to be more traditional on officiating (yes: I was one of the intramural basketball officials they should have used replay to overturn...frequently....but the better game is for both sides to deal with officials on the floor...but I concede a quick review and correction is better than an eternally bad call.))
wacarnolds
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bobinator said:

wacarnolds said:

bobinator said:

I'd also argue against the notion that the court in the NBA works perfectly. I don't like that a three from the corner is shorter than a three from the top of the key.
Do you also not like that a layup counts the same as an 18 ft jumper?
That's different. Every 18 foot jumper counts for the same amount of points, as does any layup. However a 23 ft shoot from one part of the court can count for fewer points than an 23 ft jumper from another part of the court.

No it's not identical, but they're still both arbitrary rules on how to score different shots
Hop
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bobinator said:

Hop said:

bobinator said:

I think the current reset is 15.
That's a kicked ball only. A foul resets to 30 seconds. I dislike that new rule.
Good call. why do you dislike it? I don't think a team in the front court needs a whole 30 seconds.


A foul should give the offended team an advantage of getting a new 30 seconds to score a basket when no free throws are rewarded. Only getting 20 seconds is a disadvantage.
jml2621
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Hop said:

bobinator said:

I think the current reset is 15.
That's a kicked ball only. A foul resets to 30 seconds. I dislike that new rule.

Interesting. If behind in a close game with a foul to give and under a minute, it's worth a foul to shorten the opponent's possession. Agreed. Bad rule.
bobinator
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jml2621 said:

Hop said:

bobinator said:

I think the current reset is 15.
That's a kicked ball only. A foul resets to 30 seconds. I dislike that new rule.

Interesting. If behind in a close game with a foul to give and under a minute, it's worth a foul to shorten the opponent's possession. Agreed. Bad rule.

That's now how it works. If the clock is between 30 and 20 it doesn't reset to 20, that would be dumb. It just resets to 20 if it's already below 20. I don't think this makes much of a difference.

20 seconds is plenty of time to run your offense.
bobinator
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Quote:

No it's not identical, but they're still both arbitrary rules on how to score different shots
Okay, but my specific point is that this is the same shot, and it's scored differently. It doesn't make any logical sense to my why three point line is closer in on the sides than it is out front.
bobinator
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Hop said:

bobinator said:


A foul should give the offended team an advantage of getting a new 30 seconds to score a basket when no free throws are rewarded. Only getting 20 seconds is a disadvantage.

It wouldn't be the first rule that puts the offended team at a disadvantage, and this would pale in comparison to having to shoot free throws in the closing minutes if you'd rather not.
Hop
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bobinator said:

Hop said:

bobinator said:


A foul should give the offended team an advantage of getting a new 30 seconds to score a basket when no free throws are rewarded. Only getting 20 seconds is a disadvantage.

It wouldn't be the first rule that puts the offended team at a disadvantage, and this would pale in comparison to having to shoot free throws in the closing minutes if you'd rather not.
So, if there's one example of the rules providing a disadvantage to the offended team, then by all means it justifies implementing more rules that encourage fouling. That's like saying since Dave Navarro pierced his eyelid, it's a good idea that we all pierce our eyelids.
jml2621
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bobinator said:

jml2621 said:

Hop said:

bobinator said:

I think the current reset is 15.
That's a kicked ball only. A foul resets to 30 seconds. I dislike that new rule.

Interesting. If behind in a close game with a foul to give and under a minute, it's worth a foul to shorten the opponent's possession. Agreed. Bad rule.

That's now how it works. If the clock is between 30 and 20 it doesn't reset to 20, that would be dumb. It just resets to 20 if it's already below 20. I don't think this makes much of a difference.

20 seconds is plenty of time to run your offense.

OK then. I see no major problem. Potentially more possessions late.

haha I would not presume that the NCAA won't and don't pass dumb rules.
mallen
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Nm
mazag08
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Love the rules proposal about screens and feet no wider than shoulders.. but there's a 100% change refs will ignore it almost every time.

How about a real focus on screens? If the screener is moving laterally in any way it's an foul. If he leans in, it's a foul. If his hands are away from his body at all and he touched an opposing player foul.

If you don't enforce the rules as is, adding more stipulations does Jack *****
wacarnolds
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mazag08 said:

If you don't enforce the rules as is, adding more stipulations does Jack *****
It surprises me there is no one at the NCAA that understands this. Maybe they add the new rules as a diversion from the fact the on court officials suck at their jobs.
bobinator
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What I was trying to say is that you seem particularly against this rule on the grounds that it's a disadvantage to the team being fouled, but don't seem to mind other rules that are worse violators of those grounds.

Resetting to 20 instead of 30 on a foul will probably have a statistically insignificant impact on the game. Yet you can still force teams to shoot two free throws when they're down three points.
bobinator
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mazag08 said:

Love the rules proposal about screens and feet no wider than shoulders.. but there's a 100% change refs will ignore it almost every time.

How about a real focus on screens? If the screener is moving laterally in any way it's an foul. If he leans in, it's a foul. If his hands are away from his body at all and he touched an opposing player foul.

If you don't enforce the rules as is, adding more stipulations does Jack *****


They really need to clean up screening both ways. They need to have an emphasis on screeners not moving, but also on defenders not being able to hold screeners.

Both are major problems in the college game.
jml2621
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bobinator said:

mazag08 said:

Love the rules proposal about screens and feet no wider than shoulders.. but there's a 100% change refs will ignore it almost every time.

How about a real focus on screens? If the screener is moving laterally in any way it's an foul. If he leans in, it's a foul. If his hands are away from his body at all and he touched an opposing player foul.

If you don't enforce the rules as is, adding more stipulations does Jack *****


They really need to clean up screening both ways. They need to have an emphasis on screeners not moving, but also on defenders not being able to hold screeners.

Both are major problems in the college game.

There's a whole lotta pushing off screeners.


Yes, moving screens need to be enforced.
jml2621
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wacarnolds said:

mazag08 said:

If you don't enforce the rules as is, adding more stipulations does Jack *****
It surprises me there is no one at the NCAA that understands this. Maybe they add the new rules as a diversion from the fact the on court officials suck at their jobs.

When they allow Teddy Valentine to keep his job...just sayin'
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