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Gonzaga
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Last: 7 yr ago by mhc06
Mark Few has simply done an amazing job leading that program.
Gonzaga basketball was nothing before he arrived and about 20 years later under his leadership they're obviously one of the consistently very good to great teams in the country.
I hope he wins tonight and gets the full respect and credit he deserves.
Gonzaga basketball was nothing before he arrived and about 20 years later under his leadership they're obviously one of the consistently very good to great teams in the country.
I hope he wins tonight and gets the full respect and credit he deserves.
Yep, he could get a huge contract from someone if he wanted to. But, getting it done with a small school has to be rewarding as hell.
Gonzaga made the Elite 8 the year before Few arrived.
He was an assistant on that team, but yes. That was also pretty much the extent of their history. They went to the tournament a few years prior to that, also with Few as an assistant.
I don't really see a single Elite Eight as some kind of big program elevator and certainly I don't see it as something that elevates your program to where what Few has done is still not anything less than incredible.
I know I'm probably being too defensive in regards to your point in saying that, but those are my thoughts.
I don't really see a single Elite Eight as some kind of big program elevator and certainly I don't see it as something that elevates your program to where what Few has done is still not anything less than incredible.
I know I'm probably being too defensive in regards to your point in saying that, but those are my thoughts.
I don't think Gonzaga in general and Few in particular is ever going to win a title. I hope I'm wrong because I like Gonzaga, but they tend to underachieve at the tournament. When they don't -- as happened this year -- you can chalk it up to the higher seeds (i.e. teams with more losses) they had to get through. This year, their only really close games in the tournament were against a 4 seed (WV) and the title game loss to UNC, a 1. Their wins were against a 16, 8, 4, 11, and 7. Put Arizona in that regional final game, and Villanova in the game Saturday, and I don't think many non-Gonzaga faithful have Gonzaga playing tonight. It would defy history. As it turned out, this year set up perfectly and they still failed.
Last year they lost to Syracuse, a 10 -- Gonzaga was an 11, but that was probably too high of a seed for them. The previous 2 years, their seeds held serve, but the year before as a 1, they lost to a 9 in the second round. If you look in the decade before that, you'll see mostly second and third round losses, often to higher seeds.
I think the culprit is their conference. You have to go back to either 1977 with Marquette or 1966 with Texas Western (UTEP) to find a non-power conference (Big East included) NCAA champion. Marquette was an independent but had a rich NCAA history going back about 20 years prior to their '77 win, so I don't even think you include them. With the WCC conference, Gonzaga sees 1, maybe 2 schools a year in conference that can play with them. And while St. Marys has a good program, only Gonzaga regularly sees a single digit seeding in the tournament. The lack of a conference grind almost certainly has to be the problem.
Gonzaga needs to go conference shopping. The Pac 10 won't be interested; the Mountain West isn't an improvement; neither, frankly, is CUSA. They need to grab St. Marys and see if the Big East would take 2 West coast teams. Absent that, they need to try hard for the American.
Few can't keep doing the same thing over and over (which it appears he is) and expect a championship. Tonight they had an abysmal second half that was partly due to coaching, partly due to a lack of conditioning, and some really poor play by their 2 big men in key spots in the game. I had Gonzaga losing tonight in my bracket (to UCLA; so I'm not really bragging) and will never have them winning in any bracket I do.
Last year they lost to Syracuse, a 10 -- Gonzaga was an 11, but that was probably too high of a seed for them. The previous 2 years, their seeds held serve, but the year before as a 1, they lost to a 9 in the second round. If you look in the decade before that, you'll see mostly second and third round losses, often to higher seeds.
I think the culprit is their conference. You have to go back to either 1977 with Marquette or 1966 with Texas Western (UTEP) to find a non-power conference (Big East included) NCAA champion. Marquette was an independent but had a rich NCAA history going back about 20 years prior to their '77 win, so I don't even think you include them. With the WCC conference, Gonzaga sees 1, maybe 2 schools a year in conference that can play with them. And while St. Marys has a good program, only Gonzaga regularly sees a single digit seeding in the tournament. The lack of a conference grind almost certainly has to be the problem.
Gonzaga needs to go conference shopping. The Pac 10 won't be interested; the Mountain West isn't an improvement; neither, frankly, is CUSA. They need to grab St. Marys and see if the Big East would take 2 West coast teams. Absent that, they need to try hard for the American.
Few can't keep doing the same thing over and over (which it appears he is) and expect a championship. Tonight they had an abysmal second half that was partly due to coaching, partly due to a lack of conditioning, and some really poor play by their 2 big men in key spots in the game. I had Gonzaga losing tonight in my bracket (to UCLA; so I'm not really bragging) and will never have them winning in any bracket I do.
You don't think tonight had more to do with some suspicously tight calling in the game? Tight calling, that tends to favor the team with more depth, which was North Carolina..one of the "big programs"?91AggieLawyer said:
I don't think Gonzaga in general and Few in particular is ever going to win a title. I hope I'm wrong because I like Gonzaga, but they tend to underachieve at the tournament. When they don't -- as happened this year -- you can chalk it up to the higher seeds (i.e. teams with more losses) they had to get through. This year, their only really close games in the tournament were against a 4 seed (WV) and the title game loss to UNC, a 1. Their wins were against a 16, 8, 4, 11, and 7. Put Arizona in that regional final game, and Villanova in the game Saturday, and I don't think many non-Gonzaga faithful have Gonzaga playing tonight. It would defy history. As it turned out, this year set up perfectly and they still failed.
Last year they lost to Syracuse, a 10 -- Gonzaga was an 11, but that was probably too high of a seed for them. The previous 2 years, their seeds held serve, but the year before as a 1, they lost to a 9 in the second round. If you look in the decade before that, you'll see mostly second and third round losses, often to higher seeds.
I think the culprit is their conference. You have to go back to either 1977 with Marquette or 1966 with Texas Western (UTEP) to find a non-power conference (Big East included) NCAA champion. Marquette was an independent but had a rich NCAA history going back about 20 years prior to their '77 win, so I don't even think you include them. With the WCC conference, Gonzaga sees 1, maybe 2 schools a year in conference that can play with them. And while St. Marys has a good program, only Gonzaga regularly sees a single digit seeding in the tournament. The lack of a conference grind almost certainly has to be the problem.
Gonzaga needs to go conference shopping. The Pac 10 won't be interested; the Mountain West isn't an improvement; neither, frankly, is CUSA. They need to grab St. Marys and see if the Big East would take 2 West coast teams. Absent that, they need to try hard for the American.
Few can't keep doing the same thing over and over (which it appears he is) and expect a championship. Tonight they had an abysmal second half that was partly due to coaching, partly due to a lack of conditioning, and some really poor play by their 2 big men in key spots in the game. I had Gonzaga losing tonight in my bracket (to UCLA; so I'm not really bragging) and will never have them winning in any bracket I do.
the "jump ball" that gave heels possession up 1 with 30sec to go leading to the bucket that put them ahead for good
EliteZags said:
the "jump ball" that gave heels possession up 1 with 30sec to go leading to the bucket that put them ahead for good
Can you post a picture from about half a second later? Because it was clearly a jump ball, and you are seriously biased if you're saying this was a game defining bad call.
Dude, they just played (and competed) in the national championship game. Sure, they've underachieved relative to their seeding in the past, but to say they failed this year is kinda dumb.91AggieLawyer said:
I don't think Gonzaga in general and Few in particular is ever going to win a title. I hope I'm wrong because I like Gonzaga, but they tend to underachieve at the tournament. When they don't -- as happened this year -- you can chalk it up to the higher seeds (i.e. teams with more losses) they had to get through. This year, their only really close games in the tournament were against a 4 seed (WV) and the title game loss to UNC, a 1. Their wins were against a 16, 8, 4, 11, and 7. Put Arizona in that regional final game, and Villanova in the game Saturday, and I don't think many non-Gonzaga faithful have Gonzaga playing tonight. It would defy history. As it turned out, this year set up perfectly and they still failed.
Last year they lost to Syracuse, a 10 -- Gonzaga was an 11, but that was probably too high of a seed for them. The previous 2 years, their seeds held serve, but the year before as a 1, they lost to a 9 in the second round. If you look in the decade before that, you'll see mostly second and third round losses, often to higher seeds.
I think the culprit is their conference. You have to go back to either 1977 with Marquette or 1966 with Texas Western (UTEP) to find a non-power conference (Big East included) NCAA champion. Marquette was an independent but had a rich NCAA history going back about 20 years prior to their '77 win, so I don't even think you include them. With the WCC conference, Gonzaga sees 1, maybe 2 schools a year in conference that can play with them. And while St. Marys has a good program, only Gonzaga regularly sees a single digit seeding in the tournament. The lack of a conference grind almost certainly has to be the problem.
Gonzaga needs to go conference shopping. The Pac 10 won't be interested; the Mountain West isn't an improvement; neither, frankly, is CUSA. They need to grab St. Marys and see if the Big East would take 2 West coast teams. Absent that, they need to try hard for the American.
Few can't keep doing the same thing over and over (which it appears he is) and expect a championship. Tonight they had an abysmal second half that was partly due to coaching, partly due to a lack of conditioning, and some really poor play by their 2 big men in key spots in the game. I had Gonzaga losing tonight in my bracket (to UCLA; so I'm not really bragging) and will never have them winning in any bracket I do.
Looking for a new conference is probably the absolute last thing they need. Basketball doesn't require conference-bias for a team to succeed like football does. Gonzaga has played a great non-conference schedule every year, including true road games. Think about what you're suggesting - tiny Gonzaga and tiny Saint Mary's flying from Washington/California to DC for a Wednesday night basketball game... all to move up a seed line, when they've already gotten a #1 seed twice? This is a truly terrible idea.
Gonzaga isn't a mid major. They are a top basketball program. They just happen to be in a lesser conference.
Gonzaga was in it until the last minute so not sure why anybody would think they can't win it all. Mark Few has a great eye for overseas players and transfers so no reason he can't continue to compete for titles.
Wow. There's a lot to unpack there. A few things:
UNLV won the title in 1990 out of the Big West. (But 1 doesn't really change your point, to be fair.)
Gonzaga shouldn't be looking to fly all their teams across the country each week because they got outplayed in the last 1 or 2 or 3 minutes of the national championship game.
They beat Arizona this year on a neutral court, so a bit curious to say facing Arizona in the tournament would have contributed to an unpenatrable wall.
UNLV won the title in 1990 out of the Big West. (But 1 doesn't really change your point, to be fair.)
Gonzaga shouldn't be looking to fly all their teams across the country each week because they got outplayed in the last 1 or 2 or 3 minutes of the national championship game.
They beat Arizona this year on a neutral court, so a bit curious to say facing Arizona in the tournament would have contributed to an unpenatrable wall.
I think a bigger issue with Gonzaga is Williams-Goss tweaking his ankle and following it up with a jumpshot near the free throw line which came up short. They had another chance and he tried to shoot over Meeks, but Meeks blocked it.TE-aXm-AS said:EliteZags said:
the "jump ball" that gave heels possession up 1 with 30sec to go leading to the bucket that put them ahead for good
Can you post a picture from about half a second later? Because it was clearly a jump ball, and you are seriously biased if you're saying this was a game defining bad call.
I felt like there was another player that gave them a better chance to score after his first failed shot attempt.
Karnowski missing a lot of bunnies was also a huge factor. He was 1-8 on the floor; he just didn't have it last night.
The UNC player looks out of boundsTE-aXm-AS said:EliteZags said:
the "jump ball" that gave heels possession up 1 with 30sec to go leading to the bucket that put them ahead for good
Can you post a picture from about half a second later? Because it was clearly a jump ball, and you are seriously biased if you're saying this was a game defining bad call.
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See NC hand out of bounds?TE-aXm-AS said:EliteZags said:
the "jump ball" that gave heels possession up 1 with 30sec to go leading to the bucket that put them ahead for good
Can you post a picture from about half a second later? Because it was clearly a jump ball, and you are seriously biased if you're saying this was a game defining bad call.
How can you have a jump ball after a player is out of bounds?TE-aXm-AS said:EliteZags said:
the "jump ball" that gave heels possession up 1 with 30sec to go leading to the bucket that put them ahead for good
Can you post a picture from about half a second later? Because it was clearly a jump ball, and you are seriously biased if you're saying this was a game defining bad call.
Gonzaga has a better chance of winning a national title in the next few years than 90% of the teams in the 'power 5' conferences. They are a big-time basketball program now and are fine in the conference where they are at.
Agree - If that had been a more loosely called game - Zags would have won. NC depth won in the end.
TE-aXm-AS said:EliteZags said:
the "jump ball" that gave heels possession up 1 with 30sec to go leading to the bucket that put them ahead for good
Can you post a picture from about half a second later? Because it was clearly a jump ball, and you are seriously biased if you're saying this was a game defining bad call.
Ref is cleary staring straight at Meeks hand over the line
Zags ball down 1 with 40 to play, who knows how it should've ended
looks like the ref that can't see the ball is the one about to call the jump ball. The guy looking right at it doesn't look like he's gonna do anything.
http://thebiglead.com/2017/04/03/gonzaga-falls-victim-to-ref-show-on-zach-collins-crucial-fourth-foul/
#4 on Collins, 5th was a phantom over the back call as he stood ground getting boxed out, Meeks got away with both all game long
Likely lottery pick if he declares and the only big having any success last night, sadly refs only allowed him 14min on the floor
#4 on Collins, 5th was a phantom over the back call as he stood ground getting boxed out, Meeks got away with both all game long
Likely lottery pick if he declares and the only big having any success last night, sadly refs only allowed him 14min on the floor
Collins is going to be a player. A guy that size and can move like a guard. I wish we would've gotten to see more of him last night.
Yes, Meeks' hand was out of bounds. 2 points for UNC. A few minutes earlier on the other end, Gonzaga shoots an airball 3, and the ref says it was blocked. 3 points for Gonzaga.
The play of the game was with 1:40 to go, Gonzaga up by 2.Look at the pass that Pinson made to Jackson for the lay-up and one. That pass was rifled in there, and Jackson caught it like Dwight Clark.
The play of the game was with 1:40 to go, Gonzaga up by 2.Look at the pass that Pinson made to Jackson for the lay-up and one. That pass was rifled in there, and Jackson caught it like Dwight Clark.
refs missed a clear foul on that 3 pt shot that was ruled a block. Don't think it's fair to rule that a ref error in Gonzaga's favor. At best, that play was a wash.94chem said:
A few minutes earlier on the other end, Gonzaga shoots an airball 3, and the ref says it was blocked. 3 points for Gonzaga.
So clear that it took a slo-mo replay to see the hand barely grazed?Quote:
refs missed a clear foul on that 3 pt shot that was ruled a block.
...and don't forget the Karnowski foul after Berry's clean strip. Should have been 2 shots for Berry, and none for Karnowski. 2 points for Gonzaga.
The game was decided by an outstanding find of Jackson for a 3 point play, a great finish by Hicks in the paint, and a great defensive play by Meeks. Gonzaga didn't make a single winning play in the final 1:50, and UNC made 3. Ballgame.
LOL totally unbiased sounding assessment there94chem said:So clear that it took a slo-mo replay to see the hand barely grazed?Quote:
refs missed a clear foul on that 3 pt shot that was ruled a block.
...and don't forget the Karnowski foul after Berry's clean strip. Should have been 2 shots for Berry, and none for Karnowski. 2 points for Gonzaga.
The game was decided by an outstanding find of Jackson for a 3 point play, a great finish by Hicks in the paint, and a great defensive play by Meeks. Gonzaga didn't make a single winning play in the final 1:50, and UNC made 3. Ballgame.
refs made sure UNC had enough chances to put the game away in the final minute, cause they couldn't do it with their constant help the entire half
Meeks would've fouled out 4 times if they called him like they called Collins
won my $500 bracket with the Heels win but man how cringeworthy seeing it have to be spoonfed to them like that
I don't have the link right now, but I read a prophetic article that analyzed the foul situation for both teams before the game. It mentioned how as the level of competition increased for Gonzaga, the foul rate per minute for their bigs increased by 15 - 20%, especially for Collins. For UNC, their bigs remained at the same rate. Turned out to be a money prediction.
https://northcarolina.rivals.com/news/3-keys-to-beating-gonzaga
See the link. UNC' bigs were used to the higher level of competition, and didn't have the same foul problems. Meeks did have 4, but he finished the game.
See the link. UNC' bigs were used to the higher level of competition, and didn't have the same foul problems. Meeks did have 4, but he finished the game.
At the end of the day, I see UNC as having a little more athleticism. And that helps you with avoiding fouls and more to the point, that helps you make the kind of play(s) that UNC made in the last 90 seconds.
More athleticism isn't something Gonzaga could have scheduled its way into.
More athleticism isn't something Gonzaga could have scheduled its way into.
No, but Meeks isn't projected to be drafted at all, Hicks in the 2nd round. Tyler Davis and Robert Williams project higher than UNC's front line. Experience was the real advantage.
So, good news for A&M but Robert Williams is an athletic freak and Tyler Davis is a pretty good player, too.
Second round ain't nothing to scoff at, plus, Meeks and Hicks both had 4 fouls, too, playing 22 and 30 minutes, respectively. Meeks is athletic, certainly an athletic defender, he did well to lose all that weight.
Zach Collins didn't play many minutes all year and he fouled everyone. He fouled out in 17 minutes against Bryant, he fouled out in 17 minutes against in San Francisco. Plus 4 or so other games. He fouled against UNC's future NBA pick Tony Bradley if I recall correctly.
And some of the fouls came from Jackson, Berry, etc... coming into the lane and challenging Gonzaga's front court.
Second round ain't nothing to scoff at, plus, Meeks and Hicks both had 4 fouls, too, playing 22 and 30 minutes, respectively. Meeks is athletic, certainly an athletic defender, he did well to lose all that weight.
Zach Collins didn't play many minutes all year and he fouled everyone. He fouled out in 17 minutes against Bryant, he fouled out in 17 minutes against in San Francisco. Plus 4 or so other games. He fouled against UNC's future NBA pick Tony Bradley if I recall correctly.
And some of the fouls came from Jackson, Berry, etc... coming into the lane and challenging Gonzaga's front court.
but fouls # 4 and 5 Monday night were a complete joke, Meeks and Hicks combined for 20+ of those throughout the night
woulda been interesting to see how UNC would've fared had they been able to face stud freshman like Collins, Fox, Monk
woulda been interesting to see how UNC would've fared had they been able to face stud freshman like Collins, Fox, Monk
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