Not that there should've been any doubt

5,804 Views | 82 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by TangoMike
Method Man
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But Frank Martin is a good coach. Unbelievable that some of you thought Kennedy was better than he is. Watch the games. There isn't one aspect of the game they aren't better coached in.
JJxvi
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AG
Thanks for the info
Goat Man
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AG
You know you are right about Martin but did anyone actually say they thought BK was a better coach?
mazzag
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I've always thought frank was a good coach. He's been at South Carolina since 2012. Kennedy came here in 2011. His percentage is .565 and BK's is .581. Frank has an e8. Kennedy has a s16. Frank was given a **** sandwich and bk was given a coaches pick to win the b12. It's about sustainability. And FWIW, Scott drew is a dumb ass coach.
Method Man
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Well there was a lot of Frank can't beat BK, hasn't made a tourney and didn't build KSU talk.
bobinator
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He didn't build KSU, that doesn't mean he's not better than Kennedy
TangoMike
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Goat Man said:

You know you are right about Martin but did anyone actually say they thought BK was a better coach?


Sandhop has been beating that drum for 3 years. Of course, Sandhop didn't even know that Frank Martin had ever made it past the 1st round at K-State
mazzag
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AG
I didn't know that either. Was that with Beasley?
TangoMike
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What? No, he made the E8 in year 5 or 6 there with Fear-the-Beard

Martin built K-State. Huggins was there less than 12 months - with Martin the recruiter of Walker and Beasley - and Martin kept winning for 7 more years
Method Man
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Jacob Pullen made elite 8
JJxvi
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They made it past the first round like every year. They went to the elite 8 year they beat Xavier in double OT
bobinator
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We can get into the weeds on what built means, but Huggins set the stage and then handed him the microphone. Martin had never been a head coach before so without Huggins he never even gets that job probably.

He's a good coach, but I still wouldn't say he built KSU.
MB19
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Well if I'm a K-State fan tonight, I'm not happy that Martin was allowed to get away to South Carolina of all places, because he and the AD didn't get along.
Deputy Travis Junior
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Goat Man said:

You know you are right about Martin but did anyone actually say they thought BK was a better coach?
Hop is the king of "what have you done for me lately?" so when Martin started out with 3 awful to bad seasons, Hop began saying that there was little evidence that Martin was better than Kennedy. For some reason, Hop didn't think Martin's KSU tenure counted. Nor did he think that Martin's starting situation was much different than Kennedy's.

Not sure how he arrived there. South Carolina was absolutely terrible when Martin arrived, and 4 tournament appearances in 5 years (one of which was an Elite Eight) is FAR better than anything Kennedy's ever done. The book is unequivocally closed, though. Martin is making his second Elite Eight appearance in 10 years. Kennedy has 1 Sweet 16 in 19 years, and it required a freaking miracle.
Method Man
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I watch the games. USC is well coached. Organized. We are sporadic and like electrons randomly moving around a nucleus.
Hop
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Staff
AG
Two of his three best players are stud seniors and the other top player may go pro. Just as y'all have said this year, I'm not going to anoint a guy a great coach based on one good year. If his No. 55 ranked freshman class and the young players on the roster can sustain this year's success next season, then I'll say he's a very good coach. I'll be impressed.

I have not doubted Martin's ability to get his teams playing good defense, but his recruiting outside of the gimme he got with Dozier has historically been inconsistent. He hasn't proven he can stockpile talent year-after-year. He may prove me wrong. If he does, I'll take my medicine.
JJxvi
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AG
So, it all comes down to recruiting facts to you? Shocked.
mazzag
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AG
Well if Martin takes another job and Kennedy retires due to health for 2017, which incoming coach has a better head start? The A&M or SC?
Hop
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Staff
AG
Deputy Travis Junior said:

Goat Man said:

You know you are right about Martin but did anyone actually say they thought BK was a better coach?
Hop is the king of "what have you done for me lately?" so when Martin started out with 3 awful to bad seasons, Hop began saying that there was little evidence that Martin was better than Kennedy. For some reason, Hop didn't think Martin's KSU tenure counted. Nor did he think that Martin's starting situation was much different than Kennedy's.

Not sure how he arrived there. South Carolina was absolutely terrible when Martin arrived, and 4 tournament appearances in 5 years (one of which was an Elite Eight) is FAR better than anything Kennedy's ever done. The book is unequivocally closed, though. Martin is making his second Elite Eight appearance in 10 years. Kennedy has 1 Sweet 16 in 19 years, and it required a freaking miracle.
I don't know whose resume' you are quoting, but this is Martin's first NCAA Tourney in his five seasons at USCe. What he did with Huggins' all-Americans a decade ago isn't relevant to what he's doing at USCe. The issue is can he recruit consistently to sustain this one year of success that is led by a pair of stud seniors.

Look, if you are going to compare results for a young coach at Centenary and SE Louisiana versus a guy that was promoted from within to take over a Big 12 program stocked with all-Americans, then we can;t have an objective debate.
mikesyracuse1
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Frank Martin to Steak and Shake and then to Georgetown
JJxvi
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AG
There is no "issue." Nobody seriously thinks Kennedy is a better coach than Martin, it's a laughable position and you look like a basketball novice for even hinting that it might still be in question with that post.
_lefraud_
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AG
Very simple question for you Hop (which I'm sure you won't answer). Who would you rather have coaching the aggies next season (A or B)?

A. Billy Kennedy
B. Frank Martin
AggieDPT
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JJxvi said:

There is no "issue." Nobody seriously thinks Kennedy is a better coach than Martin, it's a laughable position and you look like a basketball novice for even hinting that it might still be in question with that post.
mhayden
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Create Topic: "Has Anyone Actually Seen Frank Martin's Whole Resume?"
Matsui
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Kennedy isn't a better coach than Martin.
_lefraud_
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My favorite part is the argument that "yea, well Kennedy was coaching at small one bid dumpsters", as if Kennedy had a choice in the matter, and was coaching at those schools out of some sort of charity. No credit is due to Martin and other guys for getting "better" jobs than Kennedy.

That's what's so hard about Kennedy and comparing him to others. I've really tried to think of guys that have had similar paths as him, and they're just aren't any. Kudos for him for getting his "dream job", but he's proven, after 6 years now, that he's not a good coach, and that maybe THATS why he was at THREE different one bid schools.
Method Man
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mikesyracuse1 said:

Frank Martin to Steak and Shake and then to Georgetown
Method Man
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I've had half a bottle of whiskey and I'd drive to BCS in reverse if we could replace BK with Frank.
Blue Duck
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There isn't a single coach in the SEC who you can say that BK is definitely better than.



Pumpkinhead
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South Carolina is The best story of the NCAAT this season IMO. And there ain't one person posting on this thread who had South Carolina get to the Elite Eight in their bracket, so Ya'll stop arguing and just enjoy it.
Deputy Travis Junior
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Hop said:

Deputy Travis Junior said:

Goat Man said:

You know you are right about Martin but did anyone actually say they thought BK was a better coach?
Hop is the king of "what have you done for me lately?" so when Martin started out with 3 awful to bad seasons, Hop began saying that there was little evidence that Martin was better than Kennedy. For some reason, Hop didn't think Martin's KSU tenure counted. Nor did he think that Martin's starting situation was much different than Kennedy's.

Not sure how he arrived there. South Carolina was absolutely terrible when Martin arrived, and 4 tournament appearances in 5 years (one of which was an Elite Eight) is FAR better than anything Kennedy's ever done. The book is unequivocally closed, though. Martin is making his second Elite Eight appearance in 10 years. Kennedy has 1 Sweet 16 in 19 years, and it required a freaking miracle.
I don't know whose resume' you are quoting, but this is Martin's first NCAA Tourney in his five seasons at USCe. What he did with Huggins' all-Americans a decade ago isn't relevant to what he's doing at USCe. The issue is can he recruit consistently to sustain this one year of success that is led by a pair of stud seniors.

Look, if you are going to compare results for a young coach at Centenary and SE Louisiana versus a guy that was promoted from within to take over a Big 12 program stocked with all-Americans, then we can;t have an objective debate.

Hop, you're contradicting yourself in two sentences that are literally adjacent. Look at the text I bolded. In the first you say Martin's only been at SC for 5 years, and in the second you say his success at KSU came a decade ago. You were right the first time; Martin was in the round of 32 with KSU 5 years ago (another fun fact: he went 2-0 against A&M and Kennedy that year).

Your idea that Martin took over a loaded program is erroneous. Huggins took over for Woolridge, a below average coach who had 5-6 ~0.500 seasons at KSU, and then stayed at KSU for A SINGLE season. Then, after Huggins left, Martin was there for five seasons. In that time, he made the Elite Eight in year THREE with none of Huggins' guys, and then made the round of 32 in years four and five, also with none of Huggins' guys. I'm not trying to be rude, but attributing all of that success to a single Huggins season, which came of the coattails of a long stretch of KSU mediocrity, is patently ridiculous. Martin did ALL of that.

Finally, your entire premise that past success isn't relevant to current success simply doesn't make sense to me. Martin taught great fundamentals and smothering defense at KSU. Now his USC teams are exhibiting the same traits, and you think the two aren't related? I understand your point from a recruiting point of view, but actual coaching is not the afterthought that you seem to be making it out to be. In the same way that our discombobulated offense in year one predicted our discombobulated offense in year 6 (Kennedy is a very poor offensive coach), Martin's past coaching successes predicted this season's success.
Topher17
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Hop said:

Two of his three best players are stud seniors and the other top player may go pro. Just as y'all have said this year, I'm not going to anoint a guy a great coach based on one good year. If his No. 55 ranked freshman class and the young players on the roster can sustain this year's success next season, then I'll say he's a very good coach. I'll be impressed.

I have not doubted Martin's ability to get his teams playing good defense, but his recruiting outside of the gimme he got with Dozier has historically been inconsistent. He hasn't proven he can stockpile talent year-after-year. He may prove me wrong. If he does, I'll take my medicine.


Hop, I often see you bring a lot of coaching discussions back to recruiting. While we can all agree that jimmies and joes matter, the coach's ability to teach X's and O's and manage a game is what takes a team to the next level. Regardless of Martin's recruiting, you have to admit he has the ability to take his team to the next level.
jml2621
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Goat Man said:

You know you are right about Martin but did anyone actually say they thought BK was a better coach?
h.o.p.
jml2621
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Blue Duck said:

There isn't a single coach in the SEC who you can say that BK is definitely better than.




Not anymore.
Method Man
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Pumpkinhead said:

South Carolina is The best story of the NCAAT this season IMO. And there ain't one person posting on this thread who had South Carolina get to the Elite Eight in their bracket, so Ya'll stop arguing and just enjoy it.


Super irrelevant point!
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