I understand it appears it was desperation signing Smith (late in the game, once it looked like Caldwell might not get in), but surely you can find and sign a pg/combo guard that can beat out Collins.

End result of not signing another decent pg (or combo guard) is Collins-- although he is still way overused even with our current roster situation.

bero88 said:

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I have coached against Caleb Smith. He was a solid player, but I was SHOCKED he was picked up by a Division 1 Power Conference.

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Just looking for your evaluation, why were you shocked? Can you compare and contrast his game with the current and incoming roster?

czar_iv said:

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bero88 said:

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I have coached against Caleb Smith. He was a solid player, but I was SHOCKED he was picked up by a Division 1 Power Conference.

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Just looking for your evaluation, why were you shocked? Can you compare and contrast his game with the current and incoming roster?

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He just didn't strike me as a Division 1 player. He didn't have that wow factor. Now I would take him on my team everyday of the week, but when I saw he signed with us I had to double check and make sure it was the same kid.

Honestly, I don't think we know if Caleb Smith is a whiff or not because he didn't get enough minutes to show us anything. BK decided that he can't play with almost zero game sample size, so not finding a decent collegiate PG this season is on BK not Smith.

Collins being evaluated as better than Caleb Smith is a big reason we are not good.

BK may be wrong about Collins being better than Smith. But the fact it's not an obvious decision tells me a lot (because Collins is so mediocre).

Especially when you consider he has played in like 8 games.

The whiff was Hampton. He was supposedly the safety net after missing on Gillon (Syracuse). Would've been fine as a backup to Caldwell/Gilder but is clearly not a HM guard, even as a 5th year player.

Smith was simply a second insurance grab when staff was getting more and more concerned about Caldwell's status.

HAMpton was a whiff.

People need to consider that BK sees Smith every day in practice. If he hasn't been able to show anything more than Collins then it's best he doesn't see the floor at all.

Now, if we want to have a discussion about BK's evaluative skills that is a different conversation, but I don't think Smith is going to contribute to this season if we inserted him into Collins' minutes over the first 4 months.

Method Man said:

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HAMpton was a whiff.

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Really? What exactly were your expectations for Hampton?

I think not getting a true point guard like John Gillen is a whiff. But Hampton if anything has exceeded expectations, at least since the WV game.

e.busche said:

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People need to consider that BK sees Smith every day in practice. If he hasn't been able to show anything more than Collins then it's best he doesn't see the floor at all.

Now, if we want to have a discussion about BK's evaluative skills that is a different conversation, but I don't think Smith is going to contribute to this season if we inserted him into Collins' minutes over the first 4 months.

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I don't think there is any doubt that Caleb Smith is a better, more talented basketball player than Collins. Not even close. But Caleb Smith is not anything resembling a point guard. He cannot dribble at all with his right hand. Chris Collins is basically on the court to do one thing. Dribble the ball up the floor and start the offense and sometimes feed the post. For that very specific role he is better than Caleb Smith which is why he plays and Caleb Smith doesn't.


I still think Caleb Smith is athletic enough to be a legitimate player a couple of years down the road but he has a ton of work to do. Footwork, ball handling, all of it is very, very rough right now.

At the end of the Vandy game he kept beating people off the first step (which is pretty quick) but then he would get into the lane and have no idea what to do with his feet so he would pivot in circles like an eighth grader. If he could use his right hand and had a Eurostep he would be contributing right now.

I really like the guy though. Just seems like a guy I want to root for.

mdanyc03 said:

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Method Man said:

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HAMpton was a whiff.

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Really? What exactly were your expectations for Hampton?

I think not getting a true point guard like John Gillen is a whiff. But Hampton if anything has exceeded expectations, at least since the WV game.

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The BK standard of expectation meeting. Be awful and then improve. By the time he decided to start playing the season was over.

Yes missing on Gillon was a bigger whiff. Whatever.

Aggie09Derek said:

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Hampton has been as good or better as Anthony Collins

He's just on a much worse team

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Getting collins and dropping A Rob also a whiff

bobinator said:

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Frankly I don't think you can call any freshman a whiff that wasn't like a national top 20 player or something.

Now, we completely whiffed on creating our roster for this season, but that has nothing to do with Caleb Smith. Maybe he can turn into a good player down the road.

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This is one bizarre thread.

Method Man said:

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Aggie09Derek said:

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Hampton has been as good or better as Anthony Collins

He's just on a much worse team

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Getting collins and dropping A Rob also a whiff

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Bigger whiff.

He was a liability on the court a lot of the time and wasn't in there at the end of the year during crunch time.

hoya-ag said:

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Caleb Smith has nothing to do with the outcome of this season.

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Nor does JJC. Does anyone really feel this is a well coached team that's just lacking a player or two?

bobinator said:

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Frankly I don't think you can call any freshman a whiff that wasn't like a national top 20 player or something.

Now, we completely whiffed on creating our roster for this season, but that has nothing to do with Caleb Smith. Maybe he can turn into a good player down the road.

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I'd say Hampton not being ready to play from day 1 is a bigger whiff. You don't sign a Juco senior guard if he cant play right away.

Rocco S said:

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hoya-ag said:

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Caleb Smith has nothing to do with the outcome of this season.

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Nor does JJC. Does anyone really feel this is a well coached team that's just lacking a player or two?

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I think we are missing a player or two to go deep in the tourney, but if we had a good coach, the team as-is should be in the tourney

Rocco S said:

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hoya-ag said:

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Caleb Smith has nothing to do with the outcome of this season.

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Nor does JJC. Does anyone really feel this is a well coached team that's just lacking a player or two?

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Absolutely this team is a player or two away from being good. In a sport in which you only have five guys on the floor at once, a player or two makes a huge difference. Throw in Caldwell and gillon and a healthy Hogg for example to take the minutes of a Collins and Eubanks and some of Hampton and I have no doubt this goes from being a top 65-70 team (which is where we are in the advanced metrics) to a top 25-30 team.

No doubt

Was listening to an NBA podcast recently and the formers players/analysts were discussing a basketball axiom that if you can just have 5 guys on the court with no 'bad' players (nobody who is clear liability out of the five) then that is a plus that can win a decent amount of games even if you don't have any All-star quality players.

mdanyc03 said:

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Rocco S said:

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hoya-ag said:

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Caleb Smith has nothing to do with the outcome of this season.

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Nor does JJC. Does anyone really feel this is a well coached team that's just lacking a player or two?

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Absolutely this team is a player or two away from being good. In a sport in which you only have five guys on the floor at once, a player or two makes a huge difference. Throw in Caldwell and gillon and a healthy Hogg for example to take the minutes of a Collins and Eubanks and some of Hampton and I have no doubt this goes from being a top 65-70 team (which is where we are in the advanced metrics) to a top 25-30 team.

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Do all that AND replace BK and you go from a 25-30 team to a 10-15

Pumpkinhead said:

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Was listening to an NBA podcast recently and the formers players/analysts were discussing a basketball axiom that if you can just have 5 guys on the court with no 'bad' players (nobody who is clear liability out of the five) then that is a plus that can win a decent amount of games even if you don't have any All-star quality players.

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the difference between the NBA and NCAA almost makes that a meaningless point but not entirely.

Lots of whiffing going on in this thread ...

austinaggie2008 said:

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I don't think Hampton himself is a whiff, I'd actually say he has been a really solid piece, especially lately, but he is basically an older Admon Gilder.

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decent comparison assuming you mean like 20-25 years older

The reason we tanked this season is because Kennedy is a mediocre (and often poor) coach at best who sucks at roster management.

It is all on him.