A+
Robert Williams - I thought he would be very good but had no clue he would turn into a dominating force over the course of the year. Best surprise in a long time for Aggie basketball.

A
Admon Gilder - had very high hopes for him coming into the season and he has not disappointed. Probably has the best all around game on the team in terms of balance between offense and defense and ability to fill up the stat sheet in multiple ways.

A-
Tyler Davis - He's been very good and has had a good year but I was hoping he would take the next step and start hitting 15 footers consistently and staying in the game for longer periods.

B
JC Hampton - took a while to get up to speed but has been serviceable for most of the season which is all I ever really expected from him.

Tavario Miller - has done a good job relative to his overall talent level in spot duty. Brings the energy and isn't the black hole he used to be on the offensive end of the floor.

B-
Tony Trocha Morelos - Has had a decent season but didn't really build on last year that well, particular with his outside shot. He was around 50% from three for most of last season but has not been good from outside this season. He's started to turn it around a little recently though with driving the ball to the bucket so could improve this grade.

C
Caleb Smith - didn't really have any expectations for him but he's done an ok job on the whole. Kind of up and down when he is in there though. Wish he had gotten more PT.

C-
Chris Collins - to be fair to Collins he should have received an incomplete but his physical limitations kept him from having a positive impact except in a couple games.

D
DJ Hogg - was way too streaky as a shooter and didn't do too many other things. Very disappointing season especially considering a lot of people thought he would break out this year and this would be his team. The talent is there so hopefully it happens next season.

F
Eric Vila - the gap between hype surrounding him coming in and his actual performance is bigger than even Trocha's was his freshman year. Extremely disappointed he didn't have a better season and I think a lot of that falls on the coach for not giving him more playing time to get comfortable. Still think at 6'11" with good handles and vision he has a huge upside and will potentially be a very good player for the Ags as an upperclassman.

Kobie Eubanks - has been a nonfactor this entire season except for last game. Had really high hopes for him but the injury seems to have been a major setback. He's got a pretty shot so hopefully he can rebound and become a really good player here.

bobinator said:

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Are these grades like relative to expectations? Relative to each other? Relative to their competition on other teams?

Like... in what world does Caleb Smith have a higher grade than Chris Collins? Smith hasn't done anything all season that matters.

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Relative to expectations for the most part.

In the world that relative to minutes played he was better than Collins in every category except for assists. I actually thought the grade Collins received was more than fair considering he should have received an incomplete.

Biggest Surprise:

Robert Williams - The summer hype was the kid was uber-athletic (best pure athlete at A&M since Deandre Jordan) and that S&C coach Darby Rich was as excited as a kid who had gotten a Ferrarri for Xmas. Here was a case where the reality even exceeded the hype. Kid turned out to not only be freakish athletic but a 'one and done' level recruit. Course, the glass half empty part is the 'one and done' part.

Biggest Disappointment

DJ Hogg - He has the length and there are flashes of his game where you can picture a future NBA wing. But inconsistent shooting and ultimately an injury derailed his season. I don't think he had a 'bad' year necessarily, but didn't meet my own hopes for him. He still has two years of eligibility however to further develop his game.

Next Most Disappointing

Tonny Trocha - I thought Tonny would maybe have a bit of a 'break out' year and as a junior be a leader on the team, and every once in awhile he has had a pretty good game, but plenty of clunkers as well and has not looked comfortable shooting from outside and post-up game still makes me cringe when he starts trying to back a guy down.

Nothing Gilder or Davis did really surprised or disappointed me. I thought they were really good players at the beginning of the season and they were what I thought they were.

I had thought Vila would be able to contribute more than he has after watching his tape in Euro league play, but being a freshman from overseas, in the back of my mind I also knew he might struggle a ton in Year 1. He struggled even more than I thought though. I guess I could put him in 'mildly disappointing' category. I didn't think he would literally be 'DNP' for so many games this year.

Pumpkinhead said:

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Biggest Surprise:

Robert Williams - The summer hype was the kid was uber-athletic (best pure athlete at A&M since Deandre Jordan) and that S&C coach Darby Rich was as excited as a kid who had gotten a Ferrarri for Xmas. Here was a case where the reality even exceeded the hype. Kid turned out to not only be freakish athletic but a 'one and done' level recruit. Course, the glass half empty part is the 'one and done' part.

Biggest Disappointment

DJ Hogg - He has the length and there are flashes of his game where you can picture a future NBA wing. But inconsistent shooting and ultimately an injury derailed his season. I don't think he had a 'bad' year necessarily, but didn't meet my own hopes for him. He still has two years of eligibility however to further develop his game.

Next Most Disappointing

Tonny Trocha - I thought Tonny would maybe have a bit of a 'break out' year and as a junior be a leder on the team, and every once in awhile he has had a pretty good game, but plenty of clunkers as well and has not looked comfortable shooting from outside and post-up game still makes me cringe when he starts trying to back a guy down.

Nothing Gilder or Davis did really surprised or disappointed me. I thought they were really good players at the beginning of the season and they were what I thought they were.

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I felt the same about Gilder until he started playing at an even higher level for 40 minutes per game.

Agree on Hogg being the biggest disappointment but I would have Vila as option 1B.

GE said:

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Relative to expectations for the most part.

In the world that relative to minutes played he was better than Collins in every category except for assists. I actually thought the grade Collins received was more than fair considering he should have received an incomplete.

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His stats are better relative to minutes because he's played almost exclusively worthless minutes. If anyone's grade should be incomplete it's Smith's. He doesn't have enough meaningful game minutes to even remotely talk about how good he may or may not be.

Collins is who he is, if you expected more from him than what we've gotten then your expectations were off.

bobinator said:

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GE said:

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Relative to expectations for the most part.

In the world that relative to minutes played he was better than Collins in every category except for assists. I actually thought the grade Collins received was more than fair considering he should have received an incomplete.

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His stats are better relative to minutes because he's played almost exclusively worthless minutes. If anyone's grade should be incomplete it's Smith's. He doesn't have enough meaningful game minutes to even remotely talk about how good he may or may not be.

Collins is who he is, if you expected more from him than what we've gotten then your expectations were off.

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Smith played 99 minutes this season. That's enough basketball taken collectively to form a view.

I'm going to try to be delicate about how I address your Collins comment. I expected him to not contribute anything to the team this season. He slightly under-performed relative to that expectation.

99 minutes? That is nowhere near enough minutes to form a view.

So you think Collins' performance, in and of itself, has actually had a net negative contribution to the team? How do you figure that? He's obviously beating out his competition in practice unless you think Kennedy is literally tanking our team.

That's maybe what I don't get about those two rankings. Caleb Smith has literally done nothing that matters this season, where Collins has had multiple games where he's played key minutes and was actually decent to pretty good. Yeah he's had some bad games, but obviously Caleb Smith can't beat him out in practice to earn those minutes, so how can Smith's performance be better than Collins'? It just doesn't make sense.

And if it's relative to expectations I'd bump Tavario up to a B+ maybe. He's really improved a lot and I expected him to basically not play at all.

bobinator said:

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99 minutes? That is nowhere near enough minutes to form a view.

So you think Collins' performance, in and of itself, has actually had a net negative contribution to the team? How do you figure that? He's obviously beating out his competition in practice unless you think Kennedy is literally tanking our team.

That's maybe what I don't get about those two rankings. Caleb Smith has literally done nothing that matters this season, where Collins has had multiple games where he's played key minutes and was actually decent to pretty good. Yeah he's had some bad games, but obviously Caleb Smith can't beat him out in practice to earn those minutes, so how can Smith's performance be better than Collins'? It just doesn't make sense.

And if it's relative to expectations I'd bump Tavario up to a B+ maybe. He's really improved a lot and I expected him to basically not play at all.

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I think Kennedy is looking at it based on who he feels more comfortable with and who is the more consistent player. He's not looking for production, just someone who will be disciplined, won't turn over the ball a lot and will stay in position on defense. Collins is probably more consistent in that regard. Don't think Kennedy is intentionally tanking anything, I would just do it differently.

Agree on Tavario, he's had a pretty good season.

And it's not strictly relative to expectations. There is an element of how good the player is compared to the competition here too. It's not an exact science.

^Agreed. I just believe BK has really poor judgment on relative production of specific players and combination of players (which the latter has driven me crazy about BK since day 1).

I'm not sure how much Tavario has improved. I guess he doesn't get cheap fouls setting screens anymore and hasn't missed a dunk in a while.

GE said:

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bobinator said:

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Are these grades like relative to expectations? Relative to each other? Relative to their competition on other teams?

Like... in what world does Caleb Smith have a higher grade than Chris Collins? Smith hasn't done anything all season that matters.

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Relative to expectations for the most part.

In the world that relative to minutes played he was better than Collins in every category except for assists. I actually thought the grade Collins received was more than fair considering he should have received an incomplete.

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Nothing > Liability

GE said:

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bobinator said:

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99 minutes? That is nowhere near enough minutes to form a view.

So you think Collins' performance, in and of itself, has actually had a net negative contribution to the team? How do you figure that? He's obviously beating out his competition in practice unless you think Kennedy is literally tanking our team.

That's maybe what I don't get about those two rankings. Caleb Smith has literally done nothing that matters this season, where Collins has had multiple games where he's played key minutes and was actually decent to pretty good. Yeah he's had some bad games, but obviously Caleb Smith can't beat him out in practice to earn those minutes, so how can Smith's performance be better than Collins'? It just doesn't make sense.

And if it's relative to expectations I'd bump Tavario up to a B+ maybe. He's really improved a lot and I expected him to basically not play at all.

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I think Kennedy is looking at it based on who he feels more comfortable with and who is the more consistent player. He's not looking for production, just someone who will be disciplined, won't turn over the ball a lot and will stay in position on defense. Collins is probably more consistent in that regard. Don't think Kennedy is intentionally tanking anything, I would just do it differently.

Agree on Tavario, he's had a pretty good season.

And it's not strictly relative to expectations. There is an element of how good the player is compared to the competition here too. It's not an exact science.

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He's the same...may seem relatively better. Good utility guy off the bench.

Where's PatAg to run everyone over the coals for the Hogg rating?

Quote:

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B-
Tony Trocha Morelos - Has had a decent season but didn't really build on last year that well, particular with his outside shot. He was around 50% from three for most of last season but has not been good from outside this season. He's started to turn it around a little recently though with driving the ball to the bucket so could improve this grade.

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I think you are WAY off on the 50% from 3 last season. If that were true, I guess I'd be disappointed in him also, but please go back and take a look. I'm under the impression that he started hot but as the season wore on, he finished around 30%. Do you have the stat?

Having said that, if I'm right, I'm really not disappointed in his game that much. If Hogg or anyone else but Gilder had been consistent from the 3, I don't think Trocha would have been inclined to take as many as he has. I think he's done a lot more all over the court than given credit for. A solid B at least. And yes I know Hogg is around 40%, but how many games were there when he was 1 for 6 or whatever?

He was 37% last year, which is good.
He's at 25% this year, which is not good.

That's on the season I think. What was his % in conference play and the tourney?

Quote:

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He was 37% last year, which is good.

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OK, found it. He shot 20.9% in SEC play.

Edit: Wrong, that was at the end of February in conference last year but it wasn't much better at the end in conference play.

txag72 said:

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Where's PatAg to run everyone over the coals for the Hogg rating?

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I think a D is appropriate given the expectations expected of him. I don't mind valid criticisms of players. Acting like he sucks and is the reason we lose games, like you do all the time, is where I feel the need to say something.

If Hampton and Tavario score as a B then you might have the lowest standards of anybody I've ever seen. No offense.

Quote:

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Quote:

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txag72 said:
Where's PatAg to run everyone over the coals for the Hogg rating?

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I think a D is appropriate given the expectations expected of him. I don't mind valid criticisms of players. Acting like he sucks and is the reason we lose games, like you do all the time, is where I feel the need to say something.

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A "D" sucks.

Does HE suck this year, yes. Will he next year and beyond, I certainly hope his head catches up with his body and he excels.

Wrong thread.

johnnyblaze36 said:

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If Hampton and Tavario score as a B then you might have the lowest standards of anybody I've ever seen. No offense.

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I think you missed the "relative to expectations" part. I don't think anyone here is trying to say Tavario Miller or JC Hampton would have an 82 rating on NCAA Basketball 2017... I think this is more of a grade based on what you've seen/heard about the player versus how they've actually performed this year.

txag72 said:

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Quote:

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B-
Tony Trocha Morelos - Has had a decent season but didn't really build on last year that well, particular with his outside shot. He was around 50% from three for most of last season but has not been good from outside this season. He's started to turn it around a little recently though with driving the ball to the bucket so could improve this grade.

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I think you are WAY off on the 50% from 3 last season. If that were true, I guess I'd be disappointed in him also, but please go back and take a look. I'm under the impression that he started hot but as the season wore on, he finished around 30%. Do you have the stat?

Having said that, if I'm right, I'm really not disappointed in his game that much. If Hogg or anyone else but Gilder had been consistent from the 3, I don't think Trocha would have been inclined to take as many as he has. I think he's done a lot more all over the court than given credit for. A solid B at least. And yes I know Hogg is around 40%, but how many games were there when he was 1 for 6 or whatever?

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Go manually calculate it game by game from start to finish. He was either over or very close to 50% for most of the season.

johnnyblaze36 said:

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If Hampton and Tavario score as a B then you might have the lowest standards of anybody I've ever seen. No offense.

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We've got Gilder, Williams, and Davis and everyone else is JAG or worse.

No offense to anyone but how can a player with C level talent get his performance rated a B? Makes no sense.

Williams a year away or more. He got out hustled by shorter Ark players .

Same with Eubanks.

I'm going to take this as a pass fail. The overwhelming passing grades go to Davis, Williams and Giilder. Everyone else needs to retake the course. TTM should fail based solely on the 3 he took at vandy. It was a bad shot selection for a good shorter but for some guy shooting 26 percent from 3 it was criminal.

I'm also giving out an honorary passing grade to Stansbury.