We should be a perennial top 20 in every sport!

6,137 Views | 75 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by TXAggie2011
Agnzona
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And if a coach after 3 years isn't doing that they need to be gone. Currently I don't think we have a coach doing that in any sport. Why do we settle for less?
merc
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Well, baseball is easily one of the top 15 programs almost every year imo. Just can't finish the job. Football and basketball well..yeah. Perhaps after next year we'll see a change?
bobinator
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If you think we should be a perennial top 20 basketball program you're tragically delusional
maxnow21
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Football and Baseball we have everything needed to be elite and there is no excuse for mediocrity. Anyone who debates that really is a *****. Basketball.. idk.
Agnzona
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Track & Field probably meets that standard also.
BanderaAg956
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Kennedy, Sumlin, Childress, Corbelli, etc.... you think they are the all we need to win coaches?
Maroon Dawn
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Basketball here will never overcome our lack of history until we are willing to go whip out Kansas/Kentucky level money for a coach because we don't have the history, facilities or fans to attract an elite coach here otherwise
bobinator
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Maroon Dawn said:

Basketball here will never overcome our lack of history until we are willing to go whip out Kansas/Kentucky level money for a coach because we don't have the history, facilities or fans to attract an elite coach here otherwise


We actually do have the facilities compared to almost anyone. But your statement is pointless. You don't overcome history in one move, you do it one decision at a time. We've made a lot more good decisions than bad ones since 2004, but we still have a lot more good decisions to make.
Maroon Dawn
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BK will be here next year because the BMAs feel sorry for him and don't really care about basketball being successful

That tells you all you need to know about our good decision making
TXAggie2011
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Agnzona said:

And if a coach after 3 years isn't doing that they need to be gone. Currently I don't think we have a coach doing that in any sport. Why do we settle for less?


We have multiple coaches doing that.

But no doubt I wish we did better in basketball, football and some other sports and wish more folks seemed to care like myself and y'all guys and gals do.
Iowaggie
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It's amazing how the blue bloods in basketball stay at the top while there is a rotation of challengers. Probably more in basketball than in football, or maybe about the same.

Duke, NC, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA., Mich St (and more)..and then these good to great, well financed athletic departments that rotate to the top in basketball (MIchigan, Florida, Ohio State) but don't perennially stay there.



In other words, here is little in history that suggests A&M should be consistently in the Top 20.
bobinator
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There is nothing in our history that says we should be top 20. It's one decision at a time. It's the AD hiring, it's us buying tickets, it's those that can demand more demanding more.
DogCompany74
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Modeling our entire program like Florida would be a good standard for us in SEC. They compete nationally in almost every sport every year.
Method Man
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We need to change our colors to blue if we want to be great at bball.
bobinator
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Method Man said:

We need to change our colors to blue if we want to be great at bball.


And we need a puffy mascot!
Yell Practice
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should be . . . . . . it NEVER happens, Unfortunately.
Hop
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Staff
AG
Iowaggie said:

It's amazing how the blue bloods in basketball stay at the top while there is a rotation of challengers. Probably more in basketball than in football, or maybe about the same.

Duke, NC, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA., Mich St (and more)..and then these good to great, well financed athletic departments that rotate to the top in basketball (MIchigan, Florida, Ohio State) but don't perennially stay there.



In other words, here is little in history that suggests A&M should be consistently in the Top 20.


A few years ago, I had a client from Kansas who was a big Jayhawk fan and a season ticket holder. He needed to come visit me in CS and I offered to take him to the A&M-Kansas game at Reed. I have first row mid-court seats.

So we get to my seats and he is pumped to have such good seats. He said his season tickets were about even with the backboard and halfway up the arena. He paid about $20,000 a year for his tickets. He then asked me what my court side tickets cost, and I said about a grand. His jaw dropped. I asked him what it would cost to have my seats at Kansas. He said about $250,000.

That tells you why Kansas, UNC, Kentucky will always be blue bloods...$$$$$$$
Yell Practice
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We seem to always rank pretty high in baseball. Top 15
TMartin
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A&M seems to have resolved the facilities issues and the revenue stream is solid in the best sports conference in the country. I expect Woodward is building the candidate list.
GE
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When did you get in to get such good seats? I have been trying to upgrade for the last three seasons and nothing at all on the lower deck between the free throw lines has come available
Method Man
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Hop I bet you could get really good seats for KU football, though.
Tamu_mgm
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bobinator said:

If you think we should be a perennial top 20 basketball program you're tragically delusional
It's not delusional to demand a perennial NCAA Tournament team, with the resources we have.
bobinator
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There's a gulf between "perennial top 20" and "perennial tournament team." The latter is a reasonable goal for our program. There's no reason we can't be in the mix for the tournament almost every year. The former is delusional.
miller0926
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Hop said:

Iowaggie said:

It's amazing how the blue bloods in basketball stay at the top while there is a rotation of challengers. Probably more in basketball than in football, or maybe about the same.

Duke, NC, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA., Mich St (and more)..and then these good to great, well financed athletic departments that rotate to the top in basketball (MIchigan, Florida, Ohio State) but don't perennially stay there.

In other words, here is little in history that suggests A&M should be consistently in the Top 20.


A few years ago, I had a client from Kansas who was a big Jayhawk fan and a season ticket holder. He needed to come visit me in CS and I offered to take him to the A&M-Kansas game at Reed. I have first row mid-court seats.

So we get to my seats and he is pumped to have such good seats. He said his season tickets were about even with the backboard and halfway up the arena. He paid about $20,000 a year for his tickets. He then asked me what my court side tickets cost, and I said about a grand. His jaw dropped. I asked him what it would cost to have my seats at Kansas. He said about $250,000.

That tells you why Kansas, UNC, Kentucky will always be blue bloods...$$$$$$$


Ummm you sure he isn't talking about how much he would need to donate to qualify to buy those seats? There is no way in hell that season tickets cost that much. I looked at an article from 2014 and their most expensive ticket is $1600. http://www.kuathletics.com/sports/2014/1/13/GEN_0113141842.aspx
NoHo Hank
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bobinator said:

There's a gulf between "perennial top 20" and "perennial tournament team." The latter is a reasonable goal for our program. There's no reason we can't be in the mix for the tournament almost every year. The former is delusional.
Yeah I don't agree with this at all. The number one factor in creating a program is money, because money drives everything. Pay for top notch head coaches, pay for top notch assistants, and pay for top notch facilities and success will come. And fortunately for A&M, we have **** tons of money, though generated by football, that can be allocated to basketball. So even if someone pays $250k for courtside seats at the phog, we sold something like 16 $10m suites, so bring it on Kansas. As it relates to resources, we're a top 5-10 athletic department in the country.

Money will buy coaches, too. You can spin me a yarn about coaching at Kansas or whatever, and that's partially true, but we could money whip someone and get a damn good coach. That, coupled with badass facilities, and we could land a damn good class or two and a few guys that could by themselves (assuming quality coaching of course) get us to top 20-25 level.

I'd argue we were close to a top 20 program under BCG and then Turgeon. We were falling off, especially in 2011, primarily because interest was waning due to Turgeon not winning big games (his anemic recruiting and offense the main drivers) but we were generating close to top 25 results.

Tradition matters for some programs, but to simply write it all off as, "Oh, Okie lite won a bunch of games in the 50s and 60s and so they'll always be better than us" is total horse***** Money is everything, and we have it in spades. And nothing else can correct all woes as easily as money..
GrayMatter
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Maroon Dawn said:

Basketball here will never overcome our lack of history until we are willing to go whip out Kansas/Kentucky level money for a coach because we don't have the history, facilities or fans to attract an elite coach here otherwise
I completely agree.
old yeller
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Method Man said:

Hop I bet you could get really good seats for KU football, though.
old yeller
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miller0926 said:

Hop said:

Iowaggie said:

It's amazing how the blue bloods in basketball stay at the top while there is a rotation of challengers. Probably more in basketball than in football, or maybe about the same.

Duke, NC, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA., Mich St (and more)..and then these good to great, well financed athletic departments that rotate to the top in basketball (MIchigan, Florida, Ohio State) but don't perennially stay there.

In other words, here is little in history that suggests A&M should be consistently in the Top 20.


A few years ago, I had a client from Kansas who was a big Jayhawk fan and a season ticket holder. He needed to come visit me in CS and I offered to take him to the A&M-Kansas game at Reed. I have first row mid-court seats.

So we get to my seats and he is pumped to have such good seats. He said his season tickets were about even with the backboard and halfway up the arena. He paid about $20,000 a year for his tickets. He then asked me what my court side tickets cost, and I said about a grand. His jaw dropped. I asked him what it would cost to have my seats at Kansas. He said about $250,000.

That tells you why Kansas, UNC, Kentucky will always be blue bloods...$$$$$$$


Ummm you sure he isn't talking about how much he would need to donate to qualify to buy those seats? There is no way in hell that season tickets cost that much. I looked at an article from 2014 and their most expensive ticket is $1600. http://www.kuathletics.com/sports/2014/1/13/GEN_0113141842.aspx
Yeah, that sounded a bit exaggerated. Also, Hop, you said "$20,000 a year for his tickets." Is that 2 or 4 tickets?
jml2621
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drevans956 said:

Kennedy, Sumlin, Childress, Corbelli, etc.... you think they are the all we need to win coaches?
Drain the Swamp.
jml2621
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bobinator said:

There's a gulf between "perennial top 20" and "perennial tournament team." The latter is a reasonable goal for our program. There's no reason we can't be in the mix for the tournament almost every year. The former is delusional.

Correct
jml2621
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One thing to keep in mind is that

Alabama
Auburn
Tennessee
Miss State


made significant recent upgrades in coaching.

Unless we do, we're a 1 in 5 year NCAAT team.
bobinator
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john32f said:

I'd argue we were close to a top 20 program under BCG and then Turgeon. We were falling off, especially in 2011, primarily because interest was waning due to Turgeon not winning big games (his anemic recruiting and offense the main drivers) but we were generating close to top 25 results.


You'd be wrong. We we're only a five seed or better (the top 20 teams) twice during the whole BCG/Turgeon era. So even during the best run of seasons in school history, we were only in the top 20 entering the tournament twice, and the only time we were solidly in the top 20 was 2007. So no, we weren't that close to being a perennial top 25 program.

We can be a really good program, but this top 20 bit is nonsense.
bobinator
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jml2621 said:

One thing to keep in mind is that

Alabama
Auburn
Tennessee
Miss State

made significant recent upgrades in coaching.
Unless we do, we're a 1 in 5 year NCAAT team.


I'm not sure Tennessee made a huge upgrade in coaching, and they also didn't do it willingly. And Alabama hasn't done anything yet under Avery. For that matter neither have Auburn or Mississippi State with their coaches. They all seem like they're getting better, but none of them are tournament teams yet.

agnerd
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Our athletics BUDGET was 15th in the country, 7th in the SEC for 2014-2015:
NCAA finances

Our Director's cup rank was 17th in the country, 5th in the SEC. for 2014-2015
Director's Cup

So we are performing at a level about equal to our expenditures. And if you look at 2016, we're over-performing our expenditures.

We'd have to increase our budget by 22% to be #1 in the SEC, 59% to be #1 in the nation. That's 59% more you'd have to spend on every ticket, every donation, every concessions soft drink and every parking fee. That $26 chicken wrap just went up to $41! I'm not willing to pay that much extra so OP is going to have to cover my difference plus his difference. AND EVEN THEN, we would still have years like the sips have had over the last 5 years in football. All the money can't buy success all the time in all sports.
jeffdjohnson
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The churn rate for our athletic department is preposterously low.

A&M baseball has fired 1 head coach since 1985.
A&M basketball has fired 1 head coach since 1998.
A&M football has fired 1 head coach since 2007.

The reason the results never change is because literally, nothing ever changes. The only football coaches I know in my 25+ years are Slocum, Fran, Sherman and Sumlin. Why? Who in that group elevated the program? We were given 1998, 2012 and nothing. Two flash in the pan years, a bunch of wins over directional schools and nothing.

Either no one cares or no one is in charge. My guess is no one is in charge. Either way our process is flawed.
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