If that Address on your facebook is correct, you're like 2 miles from my house.

Mind if i ask what start up cost are looking like?

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If that Address on your facebook is correct, you're like 2 miles from my house.

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Should be right, so howdy neighbor!

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Mind if i ask what start up cost are looking like?

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Not at all. We're in a somewhat unique situation in that our investors owned a piece of land they were having a hard time selling, but after appraising it, the building, the equipment, and some start-up cash for ingredients, etc...we're right at about $1 million. You could definitely get up and going for quite a bit less, but we'll be debt free, have no lease cutting into our bottom line, and had all our equipment/building fabricated out exactly to our specs.

How much of that $1M is in the property? Does this already include canning/bottling equipment, storage, build out for tap room / guests, etc?

Not having a monthly nut is pretty sweet.

$1M isn't abnormal. yes, you can do it for less, but that's a pretty typical number.

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How much of that $1M is in the property?

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It was valued just south of $300, so a hefty chunk for sure. On top of not paying rent, the biggest advantage (IMO) is constructing our building from the ground up. Everything has been designed for smooth expansion, so (hopefully) we won't have to deal w/ a lot of the growing pains many other breweries have to.

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Does this already include canning/bottling equipment, storage, build out for tap room / guests, etc?

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Yes. We considered holding off on packaging because of the initial cost, but being in Conroe and not downtown Houston, I think it helps to package from the beginning and really have the ability to spread the brand to smaller markets.

If you're interested in a quick and dirty break-down of the major costs it looks something like:

Land - $300k
Building/Land Improvements - $250k
Brewhouse Equipment/Cellar Tanks - $250k
Bottling Line - $50-100k (still haven't settled on one yet)
Kegs - $50-100k

There's been a bunch of "small" surprises along the way. Nothing designed for brewing is cheap unfortunately.

I would really like to check this out and see how the scale compares to some of the smaller places near San Diego (what ive always considered doing if they pass the laws that allow you to do point of sale while you distribute). Without POS you have to go at least 3k bbl / yr have a shot of staying afloat. Looks like that is your plan at 3-4 brews per week.

You're absolutely right. 3k BBL/yr is about where you actually start to become semi-profitable all things considered.

Our brewhouse is sized to easily do 10k+ a year if we double/triple batch. The first bottleneck is almost always the cellar tanks, so hopefully that's a problem we run into sooner than anticipated!

So have y'all decided on 100% bottling?

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You're absolutely right. 3k BBL/yr is about where you actually start to become semi-profitable all things considered.

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1,344,000 12oz bottles/yr ??
Am I understanding that right?

[This message has been edited by txag2008 (edited 4/12/2013 3:59p).]

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So have y'all decided on 100% bottling?

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This was somewhat of a sore issue between investors because there is still somewhat of a perception issue w/ cans, but in my opinion it is the future of craft beer. It lets in zero light (vs ~5% in brown bottles), generally has less oxidation issues meaning better shelf life, and on top of all that...it's cheaper and can go anywhere.

As somewhat of a compromise, we're going to start w/ 100% bottles until we've developed a few core brands, then add a canning line for the best selling brands. The bottling line can still be used for one-offs/seasonals, 22 oz bombers, etc...so I'm pretty cool w/ it.

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1,344,000 12oz bottles/yr ??
Am I understanding that right?

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My math brings it out just shy of 1 million bottles, but yeah, it's a lot and I've had a couple beers so don't trust that.

Fortunately we should sell a lot of kegs which comes out to a little over 150 twelve ounce bottles per 1/2 BBL. Definitely makes getting to 1 million a lot faster that way!

[This message has been edited by jock itch (edited 4/12/2013 8:53p).]

Jock itch, what's your email?

I've been lurking this thread, but I am excited to try y'all's brews.

Where are you in Conroe? Next time I visit our store up there I may come by and harass an Ag.

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1,344,000 12oz bottles/yr ??
Am I understanding that right?

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My math brings it out just shy of 1 million bottles, but yeah, it's a lot and I've had a couple beers so don't trust.

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You're right. Its 992,000. I was using bbl=42gal instead of 31.

Over 300 craft breweries use cans compare to a couple dozen a couple years ago. Tell investors that! Absolutely the way of future for reasons above and also al is infinitely recyclable. Glass has 5-7 times.
And you can fit like 25 more cases of cans on a pallet compared to longnecks.

Toured Oskar Blues this weekend (first craft brewery in cans) and learned some canning facts

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Jock itch, what's your email?

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chad@b52brewing.com

Ignore the website for now. My brother wanted to do it and has been a little...slow.

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Where are you in Conroe? Next time I visit our store up there I may come by and harass an Ag.

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We're just off 105 right before you get to the lake from 45. FWIW, I'm actually a sip (I know), but I've been around this forum a long time, really enjoyed it here, and never left. Hope you still want to try one of our beers!

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Over 300 craft breweries use cans compare to a couple dozen a couple years ago. Tell investors that! Absolutely the way of future for reasons above and also al is infinitely recyclable. Glass has 5-7 times. And you can fit like 25 more cases of cans on a pallet compared to longnecks.

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Preaching to the choir unfortunately. Bottling at the beginning does make some sense though. We can save the line for bombers later if we do switch to cans, it's easier to change the label at the beginning if a certain beer doesn't sell as expected, and well...that's about all I got!

We will almost surely can eventually though.

Very good insight on labels. With big min. can orders, you don't want to be experimenting with labels and brands which may likely happen during early stages.

Yep, exactly. The best supplier I've found is Crown & Cork w/ a 64,000 can minimum. Sounds like A LOT until you do the math and notice it's not quite even 200 barrels.

Still, having the flexibility at the beginning (and the ability to do bombers which is huge given our name), makes me not totally unhappy w/ our plan.

I'll be stopping by for sure, my family owns the marina just down the road from yall. So when you make it big and have a fleet of boats give us a call, sip!

Craigslist post has guys in Conroe selling 22G fermenters and starting a commercial brewery. Is that you? I texted Brent...

Yes it sure is! Small world.

Did he get back w/ you? We were celebrating his bachelor party this weekend, so my apologies if things got lost in the festivities.

Yeah, we've texted back and forth. I really want something a bit larger as I like to do 20G total final batches usually. That's what I can mash and boil for standard batches so it kinda sucks to go through all that work for only 3/4 of the volume if I do 15G.

If it was a 26G tank it would be sold by now...but still considering. Will also require me selling a chest freezer and finding a good upright that fits one of these bad boys.

Let me know if it doesn't sell in the next couple weeks.

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Yeah, we've texted back and forth. I really want something a bit larger as I like to do 20G total final batches usually. That's what I can mash and boil for standard batches so it kinda sucks to go through all that work for only 3/4 of the volume if I do 15G.

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Yeah, I hear ya on that. I'm fairly certain you could do 20g batches w/ the aid of some ferm-cap/anti-foam (and a blow-off obviously which you would use anyways). Most commercial tank manufacturers are designed w/ 20-30% headspace, so even without the ferm-cap, 17-18g would be more of the "designed" volume.

Another option we were doing since our pilot can do 20g as well: 15g into the Brewhemoth and 5g into an "experimental" carboy. We had a lot of fun pitching a different yeast and comparing it to the control batch.

Just some thoughts. I know I'm trying to sell these things, so naturally I'm going to come off w/ some bias, but they really are excellent fermentors for the money.

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Let me know if it doesn't sell in the next couple weeks.

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Will do. No rush at all since they work 100% fine...I just wanted to switch to tri-clamps if possible.

[This message has been edited by jock itch (edited 4/24/2013 8:36a).]

BTW...it's cool to see another biggish batch brewer on here. Shoot me an e-mail sometime if you ever want to talk beer, brewing, etc.

Edit: and that goes for everybody if interested.

[This message has been edited by jock itch (edited 4/24/2013 8:38a).]

Jock-What is a good email I can reach out to you at? Or my email is in my profile.
TIA

Jock

What's your plan to distribute? Yourself for starters?

chad@b52brewing.com (I need to update my profile)

As far as distributing, I'm almost entirely involved w/ the production side so I'm not the best person to ask...but what I do know is we're planning on self-distributing as much as possible at the beginning. Once we get the bottling line up and going, I'm assuming that will have to change.

Once I get back to Houston I'll talk w/ my sales people and see if I can get a better answer for you.

Ben E Keith Beverage is the anheiser Busch distr in DFW but they are the largest craft & import distr in TX that covers the entire state

Thanks 96. I've definitely heard their name mentioned once or twice around the Houston area as well.

glad to hear things are moving along!

Duff distributing out of Houston focuses on craft.. they deal with No label and southern star

http://www.duffbeerusa.com/Home_Page.html

Im brewing a small 15g batch this weekend because one of my carboys broke. How about i test drive one of those conicals for you? . J/k, dont have a way to cool it with my chest freezer setup.

Brewing "Acheiver Ale"' and am going for a Two Hearted clone...except i have a ton of Columbus to use up while they use Centennial. So my version....

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Columbus

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I've been using Columbus almost exclusively for our bittering additions in pales/IPAs. It gives a really clean bitterness for such a high alpha hop in my experience. Just dry-hopped our Wheat IPA pilot batch w/ some, and personally I'm a big fan.

I find it to be good at straight bittering, but Centenial is much more interesting and in the citrus/floral family which I prefer.

Are you filtering and/or doping your water?

What is your yeast strategy? Single house yeast based on...?

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Are you filtering and/or doping your water?

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For now we're using a basic charcoal filter to remove chlorine, then adding acid (phosphoric at the moment) to knock out all that alkalinity we've been "blessed" w/ here in Texas. From there we add a little gypsum or calcium chloride to bring calcium up a bit and adjust the sulfate/chloride levels to fit the style.

In the production brewery, I haven't been able to get a water analysis yet, but we'll likely do something very similar. Only major difference is I'm wanting to use sulfuric or hydrochloric acid for our alkalinity reduction since they have the added benefit of boosting sulfate or chloride as well. Only down side is they're both some pretty nasty ****!

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What is your yeast strategy? Single house yeast based on...?

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Good question...this is something we're still discussing. We did budget in for a small yeast brink, so we should have a little more flexibility than a lot of micros. I'm also having a couple 1/2 BBL kegs fabricated up w/ sanitary fittings that will function as simple holding tanks when dealing w/ the same strain.

If I did have to pick one house yeast though, and I know it's not very unique, but Cali ale sure is hard to beat. Our 18 plato Black IPA hit terminal gravity in just over 4 days and is already surprisingly drinkable. We've also done some fakey lager styles w/ Cali ale down in the 50s and they've all come out super clean, attenuated, and dare I say even 'lager-like".

Do you have a go-to strain in particular that you like?