You won't know until you open it. If it has stayed cool, it is likely ok. What year is it?

1 2009 and 2 2010. Our house doesn't get above 77 during the summer (while we're at work), and is 75 or cooler while we're here.

They might be ok, but I would bring a backup. That's a little warm for long-term storage, and it's made worse by temperature fluctuation. If they are good, drink them all soon. If they are bad, I'd invest in a vinegar making kit so you can salvage it.

If it's been dark, IMO at those temps they'll be just fine. Differing opinions, but is 3-5 years "long term" storage? I've always thought that to be 10+ years or even more?

The issue is temperature fluctuation.

I would think a home like that would be +/- 5 degrees at most. Is that that much?

That, along with the higher temperature, and no humidity control, is not a good plan for storage. IMO, storing wine for 3-5 years like this is a plan for disaster.

I've found some zins in a closet that I had forgotten about for about a year that tasted just fine. I don't know what multiple years would have done to them though and I'm glad I didn't find out.

I do have some "display" wines in a rack in our dining room furniture that have been there for 3 years but I don't think those wines were good to begin with so a taste experiment on those might not work.

I think that modern wines can stand up to slight temperature variations for the 3-6 timeframe. I've never opened a bottle of vinegar, although I have a 1994 Messina Hof Barrel Reserve Cabernet I bought in 1995 in anticipation of our NC in football. Still got it... Will probably make a nice salad, assuming that we EVER win one.

I do keep my good wine in chillers, sadly they're all full now and I need to look for another.

[This message has been edited by cecil77 (edited 5/24/2014 1:58p).]

Echoes and reload - thanks for the sourcing tips on the Bordeaux. Will check them out.

Htown - are you suggesting that small 50-100 bottle upright chillers are not sufficient for 5-10 year storage bc of a lack of humidity control? I was told that by setting them at 54-55 I would be good to go bc our home's hvac unit would keep humidity relatively stable. Thoughts? Tips for better humidity control with these chillers/coolers?

Your home hvac system keeps humidity stable, but way too low. Same with refrigerators. You need your storage to be much more humid than that. You could try keeping a bowl of water in there, even with a fish tank "bubbler" in it but for ideal storage, I'd step up to a Eurocave or something similar.

BSD - I've got a digital humidity monitor I can use to give the bubbler and water bowl a try. What humidity should I shoot for?

Just checked out the Eurocaves and definitely not in my budget right now.

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Echoes and reload - thanks for the sourcing tips on the Bordeaux. Will check them out.

Htown - are you suggesting that small 50-100 bottle upright chillers are not sufficient for 5-10 year storage bc of a lack of humidity control? I was told that by setting them at 54-55 I would be good to go bc our home's hvac unit would keep humidity relatively stable. Thoughts? Tips for better humidity control with these chillers/coolers?

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They are fine for storage. I've got one, and it works very well and stays plenty humid. Make sure it is one that cools via a compressor, and not an evaporative cooler. I know my humidity is up there, because I'll occasionally have labels slip off.

It sounds like htown has one of the few wine fridges that has a higher humidity level. I would do my research before purchasing and test with a hygrometer. You obviously don't want the humidity too high, either, as you can risk mold (ask my cheap neighbor about this...he lost a lot of wine!). I think some of the small wine fridges are fine for short term storage in the 1-3 year range. I used those for my first 7 years of collecting. The main thing is to watch for temperature fluctuations.

I'm going to be a bit of an engineer contrarian here for a moment.

Why is humidity level important?

1) Cork health. The cork is only wet from the wine side (assuming storage on its side), therefore you don't want the cork drying out. So, humidity is a concern for natural cork only, Stelvin (screw top), artificial corks and glass stoppers humidity doesn't matter.

OK, so how can a cork dry out? Exposure to air. If the foil capsule is is tight virtually no air will reach the cork. If the capsule is wax, no air will reach the cork.

So now we're down to natural cork, with foil capsules that aren't tight (you can tell by just twisting the capsule). Conventional wisdom states a 70% RH, however more and more literature takes that down to 50%, and most admit that there's no definite research.

Therefore, my conclusion is that for home relative humidity levels (generally 35-50% decade long storage in a chiller is just fine. I've had my bigger chiller (120 bottles) for nine years and have never had a cork get dry.

Just for fun, however, today I measured and the RH in the chillers was 35-40%. I added a pan of water to each of them and brought the RH up to 50%, so if you're concerned, just do that.

I also played with a room humidifier that I have. I think that the humidity in the chillers just approximates that of ambient, so in the winter it wouldn't hurt to have a room humidifier (they don't cost much) in the room with your chiller.

2) Too high humidity can damage the labels. There was a segment on CBS This Morning last week on the guys who are storing wine at the bottom of a river and the wine did very well. They just had to write on the bottles to know what they were.

Bottom line, the science of wine storage is not exact. If you maintain a fairly constant temperature, keep the temp at cave levels (definitely below 70F and preferably under 60F) and keep RH above desert levels and don't disturb the wine, I'm confident that decade long storage is reasonably certain.

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. I know my humidity is up there, because I'll occasionally have labels slip off.

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I think that's partially a function of how often the chiller is opened. If you let some warm air (i.e. higher moisture content) in the chiller it will tend to elevate the RH. So you're probably just opening it regularly!

[This message has been edited by cecil77 (edited 5/25/2014 7:20p).]

I put a wet sponge weekly in my chiller. Problem solved.

That's a good idea, no spillage that way.

Do you have to worry about the sponge getting stinky?

I wash it the the dishwasher once a month and replace it twice a year.

Gentlemen, a quick question for those of you that have raved about Rivers Marie Pinot. My local shop has put up 5 of the 2012s on their website. ( Gloia, Summa +- old vines, Kanzler, and Occidental Ridge ) Which one should I try? Is this a good year for CA Pinot? I am collecting 2012 from Oregon due to the good vintage which I assume is more hit or miss in Oregon than California.

Thanks fellas. Will check humidity of the chiller and try the sponge trick if needed. Sorry for thread de-rail. Now back to the wine talk!

2012 was a good but small vintage. Buy all you can afford.

I would not assume Oregon 2012 pinot to be "hit or miss" in comparison to Cali. the growers and wine makers up there know what they are doing.

If buying Rivers Marie, it never hurts to go with the Summa. I don't follow Oregon much but 2012 in Cali was bountiful and beautiful. The same goes for '13 from what I've heard.

when we were there, they were all super stoked about 12. 11s will be delicate, 12s will be more balanced/a little more body. oh - and if you can find any '09s of anything, grab 'em. everyone shat on them because the '08s were out of this world and '09 was too hot or too cold or whatever - supposedly they just needed a few years and they're shining well right now.

Thanks BSD for narrowing down the choices. When is the best time to drink them up? (immediately or after couple years) I usually hold off on my Oregon's for at least 4 to 6 years?
Some years are challenging for some Oregon pinot producers. I only bought a couple of 11s. I have been holding my powder for the 12s.

Opened a 2012 Educated Guess Cab this weekend. Bought a bottle based on BSD's review of the 2007 vintage. Pretty good for the price - just under 17.00 at Specs. Nice caramel finish that comes along late. Might try a bottle then if you like it, put up another few for a few years.

[This message has been edited by dr_boogs (edited 5/31/2014 11:32p).]

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Thanks BSD for narrowing down the choices. When is the best time to drink them up? (immediately or after couple years) I usually hold off on my Oregon's for at least 4 to 6 years?
Some years are challenging for some Oregon pinot producers. I only bought a couple of 11s. I have been holding my powder for the 12s.

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I would wait a couple if years if possible. Or buy two: one for now, one for later.

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Opened a 2012 Educated Guess Cab this weekend. Bought a bottle based on BSD's review of the 2007 vintage. Pretty good for the price - just under 17.00 at Specs. Nice caramel finish that comes along late. Might try a bottle then if you like it, put up another few for a few years.

[This message has been edited by dr_boogs (edited 5/31/2014 11:32p).]

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Nice to hear that it's still good juice. I tried the 2008 and it wasn't quite up to par as the 2007 so I didn't load up on those. Then I just had too much wine to buy the other vintages.

Opened (and drank) a 2003 Grgich Hills Napa Cab Saturday night. It was awesome. Color just turning from purple to brick, very smooth tannins, great nose. I was very pleased at the effect of 11 years on the wine.

Also had a 2010 Mirror Howell Mountain Cab, and it was sterling of course (as it should be for the price) but the Grgich more than held it's own with it, and was probably a bit better.

I got to taste a 2004 Rocco cab yesterday. It is starting to develop some raisin and prune character. It blew off somewhat with decanting, but I would drink them soon if you have some in your cellar.

Raisin and prune can be appealing or not, right? Depending upon the wine and the individual palette?

had an '07 Anderson's Conn Valley from Napa last night and it was really drinking nice. It wasn't close to expiring or anything but I don't think it was going to improve a lot over the next couple of years either, so I'm glad I opened it up.


What is y'all's experience with a wine's "dead period"? I was told holding a wine for 2-3 years was not good, you generally need to either drink in the first year or so or hold for at least 4 or maybe 5 years. supposedly a lot of reds (cabs and syrah's and pinot, too) have a dormant period after a couple of years where the flavors are very muted and wine doesn't drink that well.

anyoen have some experience or insight on this?

Had a 2009 Villa Antinori last night with a rice timballi. Decanted for 30 minutes but it needed almost an hour and a half to smooth out enough to be enjoyable. In the end it was "not bad" which basically means I'll drink it but won't get excited the next time I see it in the store.

It did raise the question on decanting. Does anyone have a good rule of thumb? With most of what I drink it isn't needed but "Pop 'n Pour" isn't always the best idea.

That uncertainty is part of the fun, I think!

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Raisin and prune can be appealing or not, right? Depending upon the wine and the individual palette?

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"A little bit of a flaw can add complexity, but too much means you've got a bad wine."
That's how I feel about prune and raisin. I've had plenty of well aged cabs that don't show those flavors, and those well aged wines are a pleasure to drink.
Another way to look at it: I didn't turn down a second glass when it was offered.