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BSD - saw a few pages back in this thread that you occasionally sell/ship some wine to friends/TexAgs contacts. Interested in sampling some of your Napa Cab selection. Have been following this thread a while, Cecil gave me some advice a year or so ago. If you need to move some inventory would love to work something out. PM me if you get a chance. Otherwise I'll post my email if that would be easier.

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I don't have stars but will gladly email you. I have about 200 bottles to go! Thanks.

rononeill owes us some updates on Oregon!!

I do!
Day 1, we flew into Portland and grabbed the car. (pro tip 1: rent from alamo via kayak at the off airport property and you save ~$20/day in taxes) Had lunch at Bunk Sandwiches. Per a bunch of googling, it was a lunch hotspot - had a pork belly cuban and it was quite amazing. Wandered around the Pearl District for a couple hours, had a daytime beer, then drove south to the Valley (Newberg)- it was about a 45 minute drive (25 miles or so).
We found our B&B fairly easily so we decided to drive the area a bit.
Happened upon a winery called Alexana. Brand new tasting room/facility - very contemporary but very comfortable. The owner is a heart surgeon out of Humble of all places. So like a good nerd, after he made his billions decided to geek out on wine - spent years studying, traveling, etc. became friends with Lynn Penner-Ash and she told him he should set up shop on this hill. Of course everything was delish (Pinot Gris, Riesling, Chardonnay, Pinot - and several types of each). The dude also got into Malbec, so he started a vineyard there - so you get to taste that stuff too. Tastings were $20/person, but we bought two bottles for the room and they waived the fees.

Had dinner at Ruddick/Wood - super tasty, farm/table fare; very reasonable markup on wine. recommended.

Friday we went to Beaux Freres - was pretty disappointed with the experience considering they were the prompt for the trip, but nevertheless it was excellent booze. The tasting was in the cellar, hosted by the winemaker and his buddy - they talked a lot of technicals, but it seemed like they had a bunch of other stuff to do. Tasted a vertical of one vineyard and a couple one-offs. Joined the club as it was exceptionally good stuff and got the tasting fee waived but wouldnt recommend it.

Went to lunch in Carlton - 15 mins or so away.

Stop 2 on Friday was Brick House - this was on a rec from the BF guys. We were there for two hours. Super cool host, the other visitors were cool, their offerings went from crisp chard to soft pinot to heavy pinot. Not sure what we did for two hours, but our glasses were never empty Picked up a case

Unfortunately, that ate up most of the day - but we had a great time. Had dinner at the Painted Lady - tasting menu + pairings. Probably a top 3 meal. I didn't know you could top beef with beef, but you can - when you start with a slice of tenderloin and the braise some veal cheek and put it on top. Recommended? Obvi.

Saturday - we did work.
Stop 1 - Argyle for bubbles. It was good, $10/per. I recommend it: if nothing else, when coming from Newberg, its the first thing you see when coming off the hill into Dundee, $10 is a cheap tasting for quality drink, champagne in the morning always makes sense

Stop 2 - De Ponte. Our B&B rec'd them and gave us passes. Highly recommend. We pulled up as a stretch hummer was unloading so it was a little chaotic when we walked in. Fortunately, there was a quiet guy working the other end of the counter that waved us over. He gave us the pitch and poured us a couple tastes of a unique white they've developed. As we were chatting a Portland couple comes in to pick up their allocation. So we taste with them - then get to run a vertical of their specialty from '07 thru '12. The quiet guy that waved us over was the GM. We joined

Had lunch at the Dundee Bistro - good spot for lunch; would have preferred the Red Hill Market across the street - sort of like an Oakville Grocery w/ a deeper menu, but the line was out the door.

Stop 3 - Domaine Serene (also known as Domaine Obscene - they're very proud). Beautiful, beautiful grounds. They were on the itinerary anyway, but the B&B had passes for them as well - nice it was their 30th anniversary or something so they brought out some really interesting whites made from Pinot - they were good, but for $95per im not so sure... tasted 2 or 3 pinots then an NV syrah and a rose. everything was fine, but nothing outstanding. Unless you've got a sentimental reason to go, skip it and go to Droughin - we didn't get to go there, but its across the street, so I'd like to hear about it

Stop 4 - White Rose. Wow. Of course the last stop always gets the glory, but I really think it was incredible. The sky had gone grey and started to sprinkle as we drove up (across the other street from Serene) and its on top of this hill so it had this really beautiful dreary NWern grey atmosphere around it. Then, the tasting room/building is this rustic barn looking thing built into the side of the hill, my wife said it felt like walking into Winterfell (yea, she cool). So you walk in and there are all of these deep leather couches, chairs, coffee tables around one side of the room and a bar lined the other. We were helped by a french guy that gave some heavy pours. He was very informative, but not snobby nor did he linger as we worked on our two finger allocations. As mrs. rononeill and i are talking a couple comes in next to us to get their allocation. They get helped by a Mexican dude with a thick accent who ends up being the head wine maker's son - it's like Bottle Shock. So we spend some time with them. then couple making the pickup offers their free tastings to us and then extends their discount to us - super cool. but we were hooked well before then, so we joined the club. As they were processing the paper work, they offered us a glass of whichever we liked the most. Highly recommend.

Sometime that afternoon, we decided to cancel our dinner reservatons (had planned on the Joel Palmer House - supposedly he's mozart with mushrooms) and pick up some bread, meat, cheese, and netflik a movie so no dinner report, unfortunately.

The next day, got up, had breakfast, and flew home. Great trip.

I've got to say, varietal preferences aside, our experience in Oregon ran circles around any previous Napa trips. The scenery is very different - everywhere we went, we had a long view. Napa seems like youre either looking up at a hill or across a valley to the next one (I'm generalizing). Also since its a relatively "young" industry, the vineyards arent on top of each other - so you see postage stamps of agriculture, then forest, then farm, etc. for a pretty need patchwork. I think my favorite part was the people, though. From the operators who seemed more thrilled that you found them vs the occassional "arent you lucky you found us" vibe you can get in Napa - sorry, went to Hartwell one time, and man, what a d00$h we had for a host. But also the other visitors and how the tasting rooms fostered the visitors mingling with each other - that's just good business. Its got to be tasting room 101 - if you can get more people to stay longer, they'll buy more. Or maybe Oregonians are just cooler than Californians?

Oh, we stayed at Le Puy in Newberg. Its a B&B but its new construction - not some antique grandmother museum. Super clean, super spacious, great breakfast. It's on the side of a hill along one of the valley's main roads, so every room has a valley view. It's about 3 miles out of town, and no joke, I'd bet there are 40 vineyards within 10 miles.

BSD - thanks for the reply. Hadn't checked in on this thread in a few days. Shoot me an email at the letter ....... Look forward to hearing from you.


[edited to remove email]

[This message has been edited by dr_boogs (edited 5/7/2014 9:41a).]

awesome, awesome report rononeill. Your experience with the wineries is why on my sonoma trips I try to visit smaller and more relaxed tasting rooms. A lot more fun, to me.

I am going in about 12 months, i think. I am in a Wash. club so I'm gonna fly to seattle, go pick up my allocation next summer and then make the drive to Portland and spend a couple nights down there. Sorry my friend isn't employed yet, he's struck out on his winery interviews so far, but hopefully by then he'll be set and can get me the industry hook up.

I'm jealous, you will be awash in Oregon pinot come the fall and 2012 is supposedly a great vintage.

2012 and 2013 were great. 2011 sucked.
I haven't had anything noteworthy lately, but Big Winos is Saturday, so some good stuff will be coming out. 2011 Peter Michael Les Pavot, 2010 Robert Foley Claret, 2009 Aloft, and 2010 The Vineyardist. The bubbles will be a 2002 Delamotte Blanc de Blanc.

I read this thread and sometimes how much aspirin consumption is implied!

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Your experience with the wineries is why on my sonoma trips I try to visit smaller and more relaxed tasting rooms. A lot more fun, to me.

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First time in Napa we did the show up and stand inline thing. Second time all tastings were reserved and private or very small group. A much more fun experience that way! If we see a winery with a tour bus, we don't go!

Same here, but we go during the week, so crowds aren't usually an issue.

Flora Springs

That's what was so cool about it- the cool ones were everywhere! None of the unicorn hunting you need to do in Napa.

Went to a Riedel stemware tasting at BWC last night. The purpose is to demonstrate the difference that stemware makes to the taste of wine.

Interesting, but I think they probably overstate the effect. Yes, having a Pinot or Cab in a thick walled, small restaurant stem is very different from a big tapered bowl leaded glass. But I think that the differences among the Riedels were more subtle than the Riedel rep was selling.

Any one else ever do one of these? Thoughts?

We did go home with two of these: Riedel Tasting Set

for our $160, so that's pretty good.

[This message has been edited by cecil77 (edited 5/8/2014 9:23a).]

And since I've been googling stemware for a bit, does anyone have an opinion on lead-free vs lead crystal for stemware and decanters? It seems clear that if you plan on keeping wine/port/brandy/alcohol in a decanter for days on end that lead crystal should be avoided.

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Interesting, but I think they probably overstate the effect. Yes, having a Pinot or Cab in a thick walled, small restaurant stem is very different from a big tapered bowl leaded glass. But I think that the differences among the Riedels were more subtle than the Riedel rep was selling.

Any one else ever do one of these? Thoughts?

[This message has been edited by cecil77 (edited 5/8/2014 9:23a).]

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My thoughts as well. As long as you have a decent glass, the differences are going to be so subtle the average person won't know the difference.

I've done the reidel thing. I did notice slight differences with the shapes but agree with y'all that it's a bit overstated by the rep. I do like their stemless ware though which is good because my roommate is a klutz and I'm an even bigger one. In other news a certain grocery store here in CS made a price tag mistake a few weeks ago and that allowed me a case of siduri for 9.99 a bottle. God bless y'all this weekend.

Had a bottle of Domaine Chandon 2008 Carneros tonight. It was meh. I dropped their wine club about a month ago, but I was hoping the last bottle wasn't a flavorless dud. The 2007 of that same bottle was pretty good.

Even though this thread is now at 49 pages, it's almost all about good wines. Don't be shy to share your bad wines too, so that we can avoid them.

Had a fun day picking up our wine in Paso Robles. If you like rhones, I would highly recommend L'aventure, Booker, Paix Ser Terre, Clos Solene, Turtle Rock, and Nicora. The L'aventure will need some age but is very good. Booker is just great, big, nice structure, good fruit. Paix Ser Terre are nice and balanced, elegant. Clos Solene makes some pretty high end stuff, very well made, I will buy more in the future. Turtle Rock is just tasty and well priced, great QPR. Nicora is one of my new favorites, big wines but very approachable and balanced. Great day and happy to be living on the Central Coast.




[This message has been edited by MHLY01 (edited 5/10/2014 8:27p).]

oops, double.

[This message has been edited by MHLY01 (edited 5/10/2014 8:26p).]

The results from Big Winos. These were all tasted blind, and I picked out each one perfectly.

#1. 2010 The Vineyardist.
#2. 2010 Robert Foley Claret.
#3. 2009 Aloft.
#4. 2011 Peter Michael Les Pevots.

If the Peter Michael would have come from any other vintage, it would have shown better. 2011 was just a really tough vintage, bookended by two really good vintages. The mystery wine was a 1999 Peter Michael Les Pevots. I guessed a 2004 Peter Michael, and won on my guess.

You want bad wines? Here you go:

1. Sneaky Pete - Some bottle out of South Dakota. That is my wife and I's touchstone for bad wine. Anyone that put out something like that should just shut down, what they are doing is not working. I would take a sip and do the double foot stomp that I usually reserve for low grade tequila. Tasting note was, "I hate this more with every sip. I thought at first I just disliked it. Now I hate it."

2. Trader Joe's Reserve Chardonnay, Oakville - There are a couple Trader Joe wines that deserve to be here, but if you are buying Two (Three) Buck Chuck, you know what you are in for. That makes no claim other than it is cheap. This one is different and bought in the past couple months. The label makes you think this might be a good value. After all, lots of producers source their grapes. But then you try it. It's not so much offensive, as lacking. There is no fruit. There is no minerality. There is no finish. There is no "buttery" taste that chardonays are known for. As my wife said, "Um, tastes like white wine." And that is why it is terrible. For the same price, you could get a Friulian pinot grigio that actually tastes like something.

just got home and found a handwritten thank you note from Beaux Freres. that's pretty classy.

Very nice. One of my friends opened a 2003 from them. Sadly, it was over the hill.

Had a 97 and then a 01 Barbaresco from Poderi Colla with Morels, Ramps, and peas over linguini . Wow what a night! The aromas of roses was so concentrated that you could smell them straight from the bottle. I am officially a big fan of an these wines. I am now on the hunt for some other producers to sock a way in the cellar.

We opened a 2004 from Sister Creek just up the road in Sisterdale. To make it Aggie related, the winemaker is Danny Hernandez and his son Josh runs track for A&M. It was his "Four Blend" a Bordeaux blend. I bought it in 2005 and purposely kept it this long. I ran into their marketing manager and he mentioned that I should drink it because their corks are designed to hold up long term.

So we opened it and sure enough the cork was red halfway down, but still intact.

The wine was just a ton better than I expected or had experienced opening the same wine 8 years ago. Very smooth, a nice bit of tannin left and still decent fruit. No, it wasn't a $100 Napa, but really quite nice for a $25 Texas wine.

I'm really looking forward to drinking more aged wines. I think that most of us just don't do enough of that.

Question: Have any of you consciously worked at improving your palette? I read some of these taste descriptions, and I just can't do what I read in some.

I can taste things, I just can't articulate what I'm tasting. Has anyone bought one of those kits, or taken a course or anything?

one night we went out and bought a ton of fruit that we read in tasting notes (and jelly that had the fruit that wasnt in season) and had a tasting. Like most tastings, it went well for an hour or so and then went downhill. It was fun though!

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I can taste things, I just can't articulate what I'm tasting. Has anyone bought one of those kits, or taken a course or anything?

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I'm in the same boat. Once you give me some general pointers, sure I can taste that. And sometimes I can point out the dominant flavors. What I can't do is taste any wine and give a description of the taste components are. I think a bit of that is training. Just like lawyers have certain phrases and a language, so too does wine have a language. It takes three years of school to become a lawyer. It's going to take some time if you want to use the same language as professionals. That will require more interactions with someone skilled in the art of wine, if that is what you want to do.

I actually find myself describing wine more musically than culinarily. A lot of the wines that are popular at the lower price points, (under $20) I think of in terms of rock bands. They can be loud or more easy going, but less complete. Some of the higher quality wine tastings, like a cab with a few years of cellaring, tend to be orchestral. There are multiple layers with a defined opening, middle, and closing.

Yeah. I can perceive fruity, tannic, dry, off-dry (I'm really pretty good on sugar content) acidic, and earthy. I can't do the list of flavors, thing.

Tonight I opened a 2006 Ovid Experiement D7.86 kindly sold to me by BSD. In a word: Wow!

I'm in the camp that can describe structure more than individual flavors. To be honest, I don't want to throw out every flavor I perceive, as that seems a bit much in my eyes and gets in the way of my drinking experience. If a particular flavor stands out, I'll note it but I like the broader descriptions such as "dark fruit" or something similar.

I'm glad you enjoyed that, Cecil. Ovid is a nice treat from time to time!

man, can't believe an '03 Beaux Freres was over the hill.

I tasted an '01 and a '99 from them over a year ago and those were both very vibrant and seemed to have the legs for many more years. I've got an '07 Willamette in my wine fridge I'm pondering when to drink.

cecil, regarding aging, I am trying to build up a little bit of a cellar so I can age wine a bit more. it is tough to do because a) who has the patience and b) it is expensive to buy a few cases of good wine, store it properly and then not drink for 4-5 years. anyway, I'm trying and we'll see how it goes, I've got random wines from 06-2010 and then some from my few little clubs for '11 and '12. almost all is domestic.

htownag, any general thoughts on the '07 vintage from Napa (cab) and 08 and 09 from RRV (Pinot)?

Some may disagree with me on this, but the 07 vintage in Napa needs to be consumed soon. 07 was a hot, fast, and short crop vintage, and I think if you're waiting ten years to drink these wines, you are going to be very disappointed. With it being hot and a short crop, the juice was already concentrated, and dome winemakers made it even more so. This applies to makers like Foley and Melka who tend to make very big, bold, and highly extracted wines. My thought is there isn't enough acid in these wines to hold them together much longer. If you've got wines that don't follow this model, like Chateau Montelena, Dunn, or Burgess, those wines are just now becoming drinkable.

As for the pinots, those are ready to drink now, and are drinking beautifully, especially the 09 vintage. 08 was a cooler year, so they might go a little longer, but I'm drinking all of my 08 and 09 RRV pinots this year.

I agree on the '07s. We've started drinking them about 2 years ago and are still the first to go in our house.

all righty then, I need to get on it. I believe I have one '07 courtesy of MR BSD. I also have 2 from Alexander Valley I need to drink.


htown,

I have an '08 Sotor White Label (Yamhill-Carlton) Pinot I really want to hold a while. Haven't been able to find much on aging this one in the webs as it is a limited production wine. any thoughts?

I will certainly defer to HTown and BSD, but given the number/styles/appellations in "Napa" - isn't a blanket statement hard to make?

For example the Opus One Aging Guideline doesn't show 2007 even close.

And of course then there's Robert Parker...

I wish I could justify the $300 for the device that sucks a bit of wine out of the bottle leaving it intact and ready to continue aging... That's really the only sure way, right? Tasting it?

Cecil, it is to some degree, and that's why it really depends on your style preference, and the style of the winemaker. One thing to not is that even the Opus One drinking chart says that you can drink their wines three years after release if you like that style. I'm sure 07 Opus One is drinking well right now if you prefer more of that fruit forward style. If not, let it go for a while.

Another thing to keep in mind is that in 07, Parker was the "king" of napa, and a lot of winemakers were score chasing, trying to produce these highly extracted wines with alcohol pushing 16.5% in some cases. In order to get that high alcohol, the grapes had to hang forever, and so the acid levels fell through the floor, and the tannins were pretty smooth when these wines were released. In my opinion, I don't think these wines have the acid and tannin structure to hold for a long time. I may be wrong, but I've got history on my side. For the most part, those big, extracted cabs are showing really well right now, and the fruit is still there, and the tannins are almost buttery. Thankfully, some of Parker's influence is starting to wane, and were are starting to see some lower alcohol wines that have better structure and aging potential.

On the opposite side of the spectrum, I've got an 07 Dunn that I'm going to open in 2017 that would be considered a baby, even in three years. Those grapes are grown differently, and the wines are made to hold up for 29-30 years.

In general, I prefer to drink most Napa cabs about 6-7 years after release. My reasoning is that most of these wines have gone through their dumb phase, they still have a lot of fruit present, the tannins have smoothed out, and you start to get some of those oxidized flavors that add some complexity without being off-putting.

When in doubt, I strongly suggest you send the winery an email asking them what they recommend for a drinking window. They will typically try library wines at least once a year, and can give you solid recommendations.