2 killed in Navy training plane crash

2,461 Views | 20 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by rackmonster
Old Army Ghost
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CharlieBrown17
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AG
Pretty sure that's the first and second fatality in the Texan II. At least for US use.

Here.
chickencoupe16
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Man, the Navy and Marine Corps just went a full year without any aviation deaths.
Old Army Ghost
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CanyonAg77
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My favorite pilot did a FAIP tour in Air Force T-6s, so this hits pretty close to home.

The T-6s have the really good zero/zero ejection seats, so one wonders why they didn't punch out. I would speculate that whatever went wrong happened too fast. Or since they went down in a populated area, perhaps they stayed with it, trying to get it over open ground.
Southlake
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Both Female. Very sad.
CanyonAg77
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Saw some video, that showed the nose plowed deep into the lawn. Going to guess a stall/spin accident on approach.
Southlake
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Stalls and spins (where one wing is stalled) generally occur at low air speeds.

To speculate the cause of the crash based on early infirmary is premature and ignorant at this point.
CanyonAg77
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Speculation with incomplete info is human nature. Probably even more so with aviation. Accidents are scary, everyone wants to figure out what the other guy "did wrong" so they can pretend they are smarter and more skilled and would not have "done it wrong". No pilot wants to think they are bad at their job.

As they were in the airport pattern, and apparently hit the ground at a steep angle, I don't think stall/spin is out of the realm of possibility.
k_beaman
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I recently completed Primary Flight Training out of Corpus Christi in the T-6 - It's a great aircraft. Details of the mishap are still to be released. It is extremely tragic and is definitely an eye opener. Aviation isn't necessarily dangerous but it definitely is unforgiving.

Here.
CanyonAg77
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CharlieBrown17 said:

Pretty sure that's the first and second fatality in the Texan II. At least for US use.
I haven't been able to find any in the US. Only found one in Sudan.
CharlieBrown17
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CanyonAg77 said:

CharlieBrown17 said:

Pretty sure that's the first and second fatality in the Texan II. At least for US use.
I haven't been able to find any in the US. Only found one in Sudan.


Yeah I didn't see anything with a bit of searching.

Hell they were was a damn midair at the Columbus aux field that everyone survived.


I'll be interested to read the mishap report when it's out, probably the worst part about the T-6 is that the stud is in the front. If the IP made the decision to ride the jet down to avoid houses/etc there's no way to get the stud out with the rear seat getting blasted by the ejection.
F4GIB71
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That sounds like a plausible theory, especially early in the investigation. Could the back seat punch out of T6 individually? In the F-4, if pilot ejected, GIB got to go too but GIB had a command select valve where he could go by himself or take the pilot with him. Almost everyone I flew with wanted it rotated, especially with experienced GIB. I also flew the F-101 and it was every man for himself. Of course both are ancient aircraft as am I.
k_beaman
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Front seat can eject separately, with enough time to change the mode. Same as the F-18
CharlieBrown17
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k_beaman said:

Front seat can eject separately, with enough time to change the mode. Same as the F-18


I'm well aware.

Still doesn't save the rear seat from getting turned into a nice crisp as it happens. There's a reason the auto ejection sequence is rear seat first.
CanyonAg77
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Not to mention, if the back seat survives the rocket blast, their canopy has been shattered, and it's pretty damn loud and windy, now.
CharlieBrown17
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F4GIB71 said:

That sounds like a plausible theory, especially early in the investigation. Could the back seat punch out of T6 individually? In the F-4, if pilot ejected, GIB got to go too but GIB had a command select valve where he could go by himself or take the pilot with him. Almost everyone I flew with wanted it rotated, especially with experienced GIB. I also flew the F-101 and it was every man for himself. Of course both are ancient aircraft as am I.


Depends on how new the seats are, at least in the USAF variant.

They can be set to either both go off when either handle is pulled, only your seat when you pull or the front seat can have all the control and punch both out. The last option is really only used for incentive rides or if a flight doc needs hours, pilot up front and non aircrew in the back.
F4GIB71
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CharlieBrown17 said:

F4GIB71 said:

That sounds like a plausible theory, especially early in the investigation. Could the back seat punch out of T6 individually? In the F-4, if pilot ejected, GIB got to go too but GIB had a command select valve where he could go by himself or take the pilot with him. Almost everyone I flew with wanted it rotated, especially with experienced GIB. I also flew the F-101 and it was every man for himself. Of course both are ancient aircraft as am I.


Depends on how new the seats are, at least in the USAF variant.

They can be set to either both go off when either handle is pulled, only your seat when you pull or the front seat can have all the control and punch both out. The last option is really only used for incentive rides or if a flight doc needs hours, pilot up front and non aircrew in the back.
Thanks for the answers. The 101 had a ballistic seat so theoretically would not burn the backseat, although potential for both seats colliding. A real POS aircraft. I only know of one successful 101 ejection.

Completely understand not giving the flight doc or incentive flight that decision. My '71 classmate didn't have my wife (ANG Nurse) "rotate the handle" when she got a flight in the F-4
bigtruckguy3500
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Currently, at least at Whiting Field, regardless of who is in the back, the seats are set to go off individually. If whoever is in front makes the call to eject (either on ICS, or 3 racks on the canopy), back seat needs to eject because a 1/2 second later front seat is pulling. If I recall correctly it's because of a hypothetical fault in the system where either the back seat can pull and cause a front seat ejection, or front seat can pull and back seat won't eject, or they eject simultaneously, or something like that.

And flight docs generally have control over the ejection seat in the Navy. They pin/unpin and arm/safe the seats when going through the start up checklist just like anyone else. It would more an exception for the seat to be set to front seat control.
CharlieBrown17
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Interesting that varies that much in the branches.

USAF flies around with them set to punch both out if it's a flight with aircrew only. I believe flight docs fly around with the pin in for us (don't quote, studs don't fly with docs and I left the T-6 and haven't been back) because in the both setting it's supposed to eject the back then front regardless of the other seat being pinned or not. So as along as one seat is unpinned, the auto sequence ejects both seats in sequence.

Common joke about a jet without the both setting from the backseat was how if you've hear the third bailout call you imagined it because I went on two.

Procedure was to call bailoutx3 and pull but it was understood that the back seat will go on 2 in a jet without tied seats to avoid either impact with each other or having the front seat fry the rear.
CanyonAg77
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Quote:

Common joke about a jet without the both setting from the backseat was how if you've hear the third bailout call you imagined it because I went on two.
Saw some video of a ride-along. The pilot told the passenger about the bailout call, and added,

"If you say 'what', you'll be talking to yourself, because I'll be gone."
rackmonster
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chickencoupe16 said:

Man, the Navy and Marine Corps just went a full year without any aviation deaths.
That's an incredible stat that I wasn't aware of. Been a long time since I retired from Nav Air.

Just for comparison...in 1978, the year I got my wings, the Navy lost 228 pilots/crew in 202 mishaps.

My fleet squadron had 16 years of accident free flying...then...we lost 3 aircraft and 9 pilot/crew in 3 years.

Be safe out there.
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