Outfit for cadets post 4 years

3,155 Views | 20 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by 74OA
Sd03
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Do you think that an outfit created for cadets not graduating in four years would be a good idea? There are many individuals that cannot complete a degree in four years nowadays. Although some cadets would be happy with just four years, I believe that many others would continue membership if able.

I think that it would need to be more of a ceremonial outfit that emphasizes continued service to the Corps. Otherwise, it could take away from the experiences that the other cadets have.

These cadets could assist in recruitment, tutoring, and mentorship, among other things.

What do y'all think?
aggiejim70
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AG
Would you allow these 5th year seniors to wear boots and rank?
The person that is not willing to fight and die, if need be, for his country has no right to life.

James Earl Rudder '32
January 31, 1945
Sd03
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I believe that one should wear what was earned, just as those who retire from the service do. I also think that there should be something added to the uniform that would distinguish them as "retired but still kicking."
CharlieBrown17
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AG
There's always a few fifth years working for the corps doing some of that (outreach,recruiting, etc).

I think mentorship as a fifth year in uniform would be weird. That's what Zips are for. And if you're a zip, that's what your deads are for.
HollywoodBQ
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AG
The whole point of your 5th, 6th or 7th year (all my buddies who made it to Final Review graduated within 7 years) is to finally get to enjoy college life as a civilian. Even if you're still a contracted cadet, etc.

For a comparison, Virginia Military Institute has 5th year students a very small number of 6th year students and even more rare anybody beyond that. Since VMI is Corps Only, those 5th year students still have to wear the uniform but, they don't wear any rank. They are not supposed to interact with the lower classes and the Rats are not supposed to interact with them. I kind of like that approach given their circumstances.

Make the most of your 4 years in the Texas A&M Corps of Cadets and when it's over, it's over. No more uniforms, inspections, formations, Duncan Dining Hall, etc.
Sd03
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I thought of this topic after comparing our Corps to the one at Virginia Tech. They do have the option to continue as a fifth year or live as a regular student.
bigtruckguy3500
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I enjoyed my year as non-reg. Didn't have to shave everyday, didn't smell like wet dog when I got caught in the rain, live off campus and have a kitchen, I could actually stand back and watch the Corps marchins (instead of sweat my butt off standing in the sun for 2 hours pre-game), etc.

I think it would be weird to have cadets that are part of the Corps, but have no rank. Weird for them and weird for their underclassmen. Depending on their character, you may even run into some insubordination. If I was needed my 5th year to put on a uniform or help with something, I would've done it happily. As would many other 5th years. But we passed on the reigns, and wouldn't want to take away from the current cadets' experience.
JABQ04
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AG
5th year was like a well deserved reward. Shorts and flip flops to class, not hearing tapped feet running in the Hall way when you're trying to study, and importantly able to live in some peace and quiet were beautiful.

Do 5th years still march on the big away trip with the band? I did mine and seems like 10-12 would March at the fly away game every year to fill holes in the block. Uniforms, were straight legs, low quarters, AMU, Band Lyre, Zip Bider. Only wore a namemplate, no ribbons either
CanyonAg77
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AG
When I was a fish, I whipped out to a couple of BQ Zips....I thought. They told me they were Dead Elephants, and only wore the uniform for their Bull Text class. I didn't have a clue what they were talking about.

When I was a BQ, we also did the "dead elephants fill the hole" thing, though not to away games. It was the SWC, so a different world. When I was a Zip, one '76er came back to do it, and wore his boots. He was not well received. After that, it became sort of an unwritten rule to wear low quarters only.

I marched as a 5th year a couple of times, always in low quarters, but with the rest of my Zip uniform intact. My old underclassmen enjoyed giving me (stuff), but otherwise, it was 'keep your mouth shut and do your job'. I enjoyed doing a few more trips up and down Kyle Field.

I think I did March-in once, but the next time (of the 2 or 3 I did) I just sat in the stands for March-in. Some of the CT units had complained that it was unfair for the Band to use 5th years when the March-in was being graded. As if 2-3 people of 300 would make any difference at all.

So sorry for the meandering down memory lane. The OP is sincere, but I don't think it's a good idea. Your four years are done, leave it to the next class. Mentoring and advice opportunities are there, you don't need to wear a uniform to class to do those.

Rabid Cougar
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AG
I richly enjoyed my 5th year as a dead zip non-reg.
We invited the company over for parties at our house but never went to the dorm.
mrad85
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AG
Personally, if you can't get it done in 4 years, you need to let it go. Be a non-reg as a 5th, or whatever year senior, and get your degree.
Once the boots come off at Final Review, they should stay off IMO
Wildman15
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AG
I really enjoyed my time in the Corps and in the band, but I also enjoyed my victory lap as a nonreg. Not only that, after 4 years, it's really time to buckle down and solely focus on getting your degree without playing Corps games.

Edit: either my Butt of Zip year, the student body President was a 5th year cadet. Part of the agreement for the Corps to officially back him for SBP was he had to wear his uniform, boots and all, to special events like Silver Taps, Muster, etc. He won the election and followed thru with wearing his uniform as a 5th year.
chickencoupe16
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AG
Your butt year. Reid Joseph. First cadet SBP.
BigJim49 AustinNowDallas
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AG
50s - called "Senior Outfit" - for those with only a few hours to go - and on contracts - and taking bulltechs .
Wildman15
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AG
chickencoupe16 said:

Your butt year. Reid Joseph. First cadet SBP.
Bingo! Thanks
Ol Jock 99
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AG
We had 2 dead CT SBP during my time. Neither wore a uniform.
Sd03
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I got the question of a fifth year outfit after reading the Virginia Tech CC Regulations 2018 manual. I don't know how to post the link. I just googled VTCC Regulation 2018.

Page 75 "Fifth year cadets ("Skippers" or completion cadets) will be considered members of the senior class and may hold staff or special staff positions with the approval of the Commandant."

Page 83 "Completion Cadets (Cadets Completing ROTC Requirements): Cadets who complete Army, Navy, or Air Force ROTC requirements for commissioning, and have completed the required eight semesters of participation in the Corps, but who have not satisfied university academic requirements for graduation are encouraged, but not required, to remain in cadet student status."

Page 85 & 86
"FIFTH YEAR CADETS
General: Fifth year cadets are those cadets who have been in the VTCC as a cadet for more than four years who for any number of reasons choose to remain in cadet student status. Fifth year cadets are considered full members of the Corps and are expected to contribute to the well-being of the Corps by setting an example of conformance with all Corps rules and regulations as well as being active in unit activities. They will continue as members of their original company and are subject to the authority of the Company Commander.
Policy: Fifth year cadets will wear the silver chinstrap (Skipper cadet) along with their assigned rank for the semester.
Fifth year cadets are subject to the same pass/leave privileges as seniors in the Corps of Cadets.
Fifth year cadets have the full authority and responsibility of a senior cadet."

I suggested a separate outfit because of how A&M has everyone stay in the same outfit all four years. Fifth years could upset the natural flow of leadership if they stayed in the same outfit.
Wildman15
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AG
Isn't there an outfit for students getting their masters degree? Like Company V-1 or something like that? That could be an option for victory lappers
tamc93
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AG
I was actually cogitating about something similar earlier this week about how much I enjoyed my 5th year as a non-reg or ex-cadet. Granted, some may say I also did something similar in my zip year, but that is a set of other stories.

In short, I was a dead zip, but would not support.
FJB, FPA, and FAZ
coconutED
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AG
GVA tried this. Completely optional. Did not go to formation, live in corps dorms, or generally interact with the rest of the corps at all. Only wore uniforms for ceremonial purposes; not to class. Didn't march, but did participate in some maner that I can't remember in pre-game activities. Wore full senior uni including boots, and everyone wore three moons regardless of rank held during Senior Year. I think that about covers it.

I have no idea what became of this. Given that this thread exists, it was obviously quietly discontinued at some point.
Get Off My Lawn
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One of the great things about A&M's corps is the leadership chances of each year. If you try to bring in 5th years - they're either taking a leadership position away from others, or their filling a void that's low enough as to negate their presence/value.

Then there's the removal of high performers. I say this as a half victory lap BQ myself: if you bring in 5th years, you're by definition bringing in those who couldn't get done in 4 years what is meant for 4 years. Maybe thats because they invested too heavily in the corps, or maybe it's because they aren't the highest performers. Is either an example/influence you want cadets to emulate?
74OA
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AG
Four years as a cadet is sufficient to gain all the intended value from the Corps experience.

Time to get on with their lives.....
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