Sophomores not allowed to yell anymore

7,001 Views | 59 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by Good Bull Jones 17
Somerandomdude
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I heard that Pissheads aren't allowed to yell anymore, or is it Cadets blowing things out of prorations.
BQ78
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AG
I thought that happened years ago about the time they started picking up all the freshmen's gear and carrying it to the dorm for them.

Rumor had it they baked cookies and tucked the darlings in during FOW but that has not been proven to me yet.
JABQ04
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Yep. About that time of year again....
CharlieBrown17
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You can set a clock off of the first briefing after cadre move in and then the subsequent thread about it
Quad Dog
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I always thought yelling was kind of dumb honestly. It was a sign to me that you didn't really have anything to say. Projecting your voice, and changing intensity at the right times I found to be mush more productive. Plus yelling at someone as a leadership style doesn't last and doesn't translate into any other walk of life.

There was always that one sophomore who would yell his head off about nothing, lose his voice, and not say anything else for the rest of the day. Meanwhile everyone else was getting real training done.
JABQ04
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Yelling just to tell makes you look like a one trick pony. You'll get the initial shock but then everyone will see you for what you are. However, once the more reserved person starts to yell then that can be a huge attention getter.
Jock 07
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JABQ04 said:

Yelling just to tell makes you look like a one trick pony. You'll get the initial shock but then everyone will see you for what you are. However, once the more reserved person starts to yell then that can be a huge attention getter.
This is how I always viewed it, and saved the yelling for Jock brass push
DevilD77
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Most effective two pissheads I can remember, Chuck Ellison '76 and Jeff Sebesta '76 usually didn't raise their voices much at all. But they could give you "that look" of utter disappointment that made you want to find a rock and crawl under it and hide!
DogCo84
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"Come by at 1600"....a phrase best uttered at close range, without emotion--and at a volume just above a whisper.
NH23
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Can confirm, none of my Cadre has yelled at a fish and we haven't let any head do that either. I was cadre last year, but this year the no yelling thing is being enforced really well from what I've seen. That said, however, it's not like this year is like day care in comparison to last year.

Basically

Is there yelling? no
Did the commandant's staff turn the Corps soft? Absolutely not, they're just tweaking things and coming from someone who was a bit skeptical about it at first I can say that it's making us better.
93Spur
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Quad Dog said:

I always thought yelling was kind of dumb honestly. It was a sign to me that you didn't really have anything to say. Projecting your voice, and changing intensity at the right times I found to be mush more productive. Plus yelling at someone as a leadership style doesn't last and doesn't translate into any other walk of life.

You should visit a federal district court.

I've seen judges yell from the bench. Note the recent press coverage of the Manafort trial.
The judge yelling. https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/manafort-trial-judge-keeps-yelling-prosecutors-s-not-good-news-ncna898736
The judge asking the prosecutor if he was crying or the prosecutor admonished for showing emotion?
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/08/manafort-trial-judge-asks-if-prosecutor-is-crying.html
Welcome to fish year on the wall.

I've seen U.S. District Judge Sim Lake '66 put counsel in the leaning rest in open court.

Life lessons.

Trinity Ag
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S
93Spur said:

Quad Dog said:

I always thought yelling was kind of dumb honestly. It was a sign to me that you didn't really have anything to say. Projecting your voice, and changing intensity at the right times I found to be mush more productive. Plus yelling at someone as a leadership style doesn't last and doesn't translate into any other walk of life.

You should visit a federal district court.

I've seen judges yell from the bench. Note the recent press coverage of the Manafort trial.
The judge yelling. https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/manafort-trial-judge-keeps-yelling-prosecutors-s-not-good-news-ncna898736
The judge asking the prosecutor if he was crying or the prosecutor admonished for showing emotion?
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/08/manafort-trial-judge-asks-if-prosecutor-is-crying.html
Welcome to fish year on the wall.

I've seen U.S. District Judge Sim Lake '66 put counsel in the leaning rest in open court.

Life lessons.


Sounds like a recipe for a mistrial.
JABQ04
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I still don't see how you go through a military organization with out yelling. I'm not an advocate for yelling all the time or just to yell, but it certainly has its place and purpose. I fact earlier today I was telling my wife about my 1st day of FOW back in 2000. (On the 20th it will be 18 years ago to the day). Our parents left, and immediately the screaming to get outside, hit the wall, tuck in our shirts, put on belts, and how to whip out was one of the most intense nights of my life still and definitely was the most intense at that point in my life. Huge wake up call, and I even thought I knew what I was getting into. FWIW, I don't remember a whole lot of yelling during BCT in Jan 2007 at FT. Sill, but the DSs definitely got the message across. But that shark attack on day one was a flash back to FOW night one. Damn sure effective for that time. I certainly hope the upperclassman can raise their voices to the fish, but I hope they are smart enough to realize they're are other way more effective ways to train and get their point across 90% of the time
CanyonAg77
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Son in law was cadre for Air Force ROTC summer camp a few years ago. They were not permitted to yell, or stress out the cadets in any way. As a USAFA grad, he was pretty disgusted. Even with that low level of "training" they still had some cadets peeing their pants in fright.

Sad.
Jock 07
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There hasn't been yelling in AFROTC field training in at least 15 years
Montgomery Burns
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DuPont said:

Can confirm, none of my Cadre has yelled at a fish and we haven't let any head do that either. I was cadre last year, but this year the no yelling thing is being enforced really well from what I've seen. That said, however, it's not like this year is like day care in comparison to last year.

Basically

Is there yelling? no
Did the commandant's staff turn the Corps soft? Absolutely not, they're just tweaking things and coming from someone who was a bit skeptical about it at first I can say that it's making us better.


The commandant's staff does "tweaking" every year like this, and it always moves one direction. I think if they did too much at once they would lose buy-in. One year no fish faces, then no smoking fish without a special card (that took almost a semester to get), then no running inside, then no yelling on the quad during the day, then no yelling during training.

The Corps is going to be the nicest dressed study group here in a few years.
Fly Army 97
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The hell is a fish face? Is that when a fish has one's chin/neck all bunched up and looking like he just sniffed gasoline up close?

I don't remember yelling allowed during the day, and quite frankly, can't say I would have allowed that myself.
bigtruckguy3500
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Yeah, I've never heard of a fish face before either.

When I was there there was no yelling during the academic day with the exception of whipping out, or doing a hump-it. Is that also no longer allowed? We definitely ran indoors and squared our corners during the academic day though.

Snaking the deck and requiring a buddy at all times in the dorm hallways during Corps brass was dumb and bad for academics though. Glad that's gone. Fish would skip class if they couldn't find a buddy. Ideally it taught you planning ahead of time and to work together as a class, but failing to do so had big time consequences for academic careers.

I think Mr. Burns may be right about a gradual shift through little tweaks here and there. It is producing better academic results, which no one can deny is important for both D&C cadets as well as contract cadets going into competitive branches. While probably peppered with hyperbole from bitter cadets, some of the rumors still make me feel uneasy about the direction things are going.
CanyonAg77
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It is interesting to see what current cadets are complaining about.

I think the funniest thing is the way cadets fight to keep "Old Army Traditions" that haven't been around as long as my underwear.

"Fish face"? "Snaking the Deck"?

Never heard of them.
CharlieBrown17
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CanyonAg77 said:

Son in law was cadre for Air Force ROTC summer camp a few years ago. They were not permitted to yell, or stress out the cadets in any way. As a USAFA grad, he was pretty disgusted. Even with that low level of "training" they still had some cadets peeing their pants in fright.

Sad.


I definitely yelled at people some last summer as cadre at the same training.

A lot of that is how the full bird in charge of each camp interprets the rules.
aggiejim70
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CanyonAg77 said:

It is interesting to see what current cadets are complaining about.

I think the funniest thing is the way cadets fight to keep "Old Army Traditions" that haven't been around as long as my underwear.

"Fish face"? "Snaking the Deck"?

Never heard of them.
Listen to this learned man, he knows of what he speaks
The person that is not willing to fight and die, if need be, for his country has no right to life.

James Earl Rudder '32
January 31, 1945
CharlieBrown17
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I also had my "special card" to PT fish a couple weeks in my sophomore year when I wasn't cadre. Cadre got them either during or right after FOW. Sounds like an issue with your CoC caused that delay. As a zip on cadre I had one during FOW
Jock 07
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Fly Army 97 said:

The hell is a fish face? Is that when a fish has one's chin/neck all bunched up and looking like he just sniffed gasoline up close?

I don't remember yelling allowed during the day, and quite frankly, can't say I would have allowed that myself.


Sounds like a bq thing
JABQ04
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Nope. I've never heard of fish face. We were just told to look intense.
CanyonAg77
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Jock 07 said:

Fly Army 97 said:

The hell is a fish face? Is that when a fish has one's chin/neck all bunched up and looking like he just sniffed gasoline up close?

I don't remember yelling allowed during the day, and quite frankly, can't say I would have allowed that myself.


Sounds like a bq thing
Not in my day. (BQ 77)
bigtruckguy3500
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Snaking the decks or snaking the dorms was typically done only during Corps Brass. You'd only be allowed entrance through one door. Then different outfits did it differently. Some would have you run up to 4th deck, checking each deck as you ran up for upperclassmen, and whip out to them if you saw them. Or, you'd have to run from one stairwell to the other as you went up to the 4th deck, then all the way down to where you originally wanted to go.

Not only was this a waste of time during the academic day, but it just made fish avoid the quad and /or avoid going to class. Also, doing this with the buddy system meant waiting at the arches until one of your buddies would meet you there, or calling around from room to room trying to contact a buddy still in the dorm. There certainly was potential to gain from it. Glad its gone.

Another stupid thing was Battfish. Please tell me that is gone. Or at least making fish dress up in stupid costumes, often times with underwear over their Corps sweats, running around campus looking for Battalions and singing the tune to batman, but replacing it with 'batfish.'
ABATTBQ87
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What class are you bigtruckguy3500?
93Spur
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Trinity Ag said:

93Spur said:

Quad Dog said:

I always thought yelling was kind of dumb honestly. It was a sign to me that you didn't really have anything to say. Projecting your voice, and changing intensity at the right times I found to be mush more productive. Plus yelling at someone as a leadership style doesn't last and doesn't translate into any other walk of life.

You should visit a federal district court.

I've seen judges yell from the bench. Note the recent press coverage of the Manafort trial.
The judge yelling. https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/manafort-trial-judge-keeps-yelling-prosecutors-s-not-good-news-ncna898736
The judge asking the prosecutor if he was crying or the prosecutor admonished for showing emotion?
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/08/manafort-trial-judge-asks-if-prosecutor-is-crying.html
Welcome to fish year on the wall.

I've seen U.S. District Judge Sim Lake '66 put counsel in the leaning rest in open court.

Life lessons.


Sounds like a recipe for a mistrial.
Nah. Outside the presence of a jury, unlikely any of this will matter.

I've had a judge knocked in to his courtroom and enter with a full head of steam, barking to counsel outside the presence of a jury demanding to know who did what. Was just like being a fish on the wall - - You know, even though you didn't do it, that taking the blame will diffuse the situation.

So, while a professional environment may be defined as one where there is no yelling at subordinates, that's not what always happens in the real world. Yelling by the 'heads, constrained by the Butts, overseen by the Zips, for the first semester, has benefits.

Dealing with such aberration in a professional environment is a life skill and not a new concept:

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
...
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!

If, by Rudyard Kipling, 1943
CanyonAg77
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There's an Aggie Urban Legend claiming that an Aggie who was shot down over North Vietnam said something along the lines of:

'Those NV guards didn't scare me, they weren't half as tough as my pissheads...'

True or not, part of a cadet experience is handling pressure. If you can't take some 19-year-old yelling at you, what are you going to do when faced with a Jihadi, a life-or-death emergency in your aircraft, incoming fire...????

Or for us D&C guys, a rude boss, a business deadline, an illness or family challenge?
Montgomery Burns
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CanyonAg77 said:

Jock 07 said:

Fly Army 97 said:

The hell is a fish face? Is that when a fish has one's chin/neck all bunched up and looking like he just sniffed gasoline up close?

I don't remember yelling allowed during the day, and quite frankly, can't say I would have allowed that myself.


Sounds like a bq thing
Not in my day. (BQ 77)


Intense facial expression is all it was. I guess "fish face" was just a phrase when I was there.
Montgomery Burns
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CharlieBrown17 said:

I also had my "special card" to PT fish a couple weeks in my sophomore year when I wasn't cadre. Cadre got them either during or right after FOW. Sounds like an issue with your CoC caused that delay. As a zip on cadre I had one during FOW


How many push ups are they allowed to do when getting smoked? Only outside or can they do it inside?
CharlieBrown17
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Battfish died my head or butt year

It didn't have any costumes or anything. Everyone ran it in corps pt gear so whatever you did didn't get back to your outfit.

We all liked it. Was sad to see it go.
CharlieBrown17
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Montgomery Burns said:

CharlieBrown17 said:

I also had my "special card" to PT fish a couple weeks in my sophomore year when I wasn't cadre. Cadre got them either during or right after FOW. Sounds like an issue with your CoC caused that delay. As a zip on cadre I had one during FOW


How many push ups are they allowed to do when getting smoked? Only outside or can they do it inside?


Jesus you look like a tool bag.

Only outside. As I remember it there wasn't a rep limit only time. But I've moved on with life and don't have my CPT card memorized.
Montgomery Burns
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CharlieBrown17 said:

Montgomery Burns said:

CharlieBrown17 said:

I also had my "special card" to PT fish a couple weeks in my sophomore year when I wasn't cadre. Cadre got them either during or right after FOW. Sounds like an issue with your CoC caused that delay. As a zip on cadre I had one during FOW


How many push ups are they allowed to do when getting smoked? Only outside or can they do it inside?


Jesus you look like a tool bag.

Only outside. As I remember it there wasn't a rep limit only time. But I've moved on with life and don't have my CPT card memorized.


K. I'm not sure why you personally attacked me and took the Lord's name in vain. Thanks for the Aggie friendliness. I'm just asking questions about the Corps.
CharlieBrown17
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If you weren't around during CPT cards, then I apologize for mistaking your questions.

Seemed to me you were "testing" that I knew the standards for them.

If you weren't on campus after CPT cards were issued, then you probably shouldn't believe someone telling you they took almost a semester to earn.
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