Discussion - Generation Kill - 2008 HBO MiniSeries

6,249 Views | 24 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by A. Solzhenitsyn
HollywoodBQ
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Over the past 8 years, I've done a lot of long haul air travel which has given me time to catch up on many movies, documentaries, foreign films and TV series that I would have otherwise not had the time for.

I saw the 2008 HBO series "Generation Kill" advertised for some time but never bothered to watch it. Frankly, I didn't care for the title and suspected that it was just some bogus HBO show made for the purpose of making the military look stupid. So two trips ago, I couldn't sleep on a flight from Houston to Sydney, and with about 6 hours left in my flight, I took a chance on it. And after two or three episodes, I was hooked.

Unfortunately I didn't have enough time to finish all 7 episodes during the flight but I couldn't let it go. It wasn't available on Netflix or anything and it took me about a month to find the DVDs in the store JB Hi-Fi in Sydney. I sat down with my wife and re-watched it from the beginning.

Once upon a time, I was a 10 HMMWV Battalion Scout Platoon Leader in a Tank Battalion so I really identified with LT Nathaniel "Nate" Fick. Because I was Army and not USMC, there were a few things I didn't understand. I figured out pretty quickly that "Oscar Mike" meant that they were "On the Move" and other simple jargon.

I found myself having to interpret a lot of the things for my wife. Military jargon, radio calls, troop/Marine dynamics, weapons capabilities and effects, etc. That was OK with me. Frankly, I'm glad she asked.

I saw that the show was based on a 2003 series of articles in Rolling Stone Magazine. So, I assumed that the characters were "composite characters" or used pseudonyms, etc. When I looked into it because some of the characters seemed too crazy to believe, I discovered that the writer used the Marines real names and ranks.

This was actually one of the problems with the show and why my wife struggled to keep up with who was who and some of the dynamics between characters. In most military shows, they will create a composite character who takes on the attributes of 4-5 real people but for simplification and to help the audience follow along, that single character does everything. In Generation Kill, there were many minor characters and they all did minor things here or there. As a former soldier, it made total sense. But to my wife, it was difficult to understand why they might do something like switch out MK-19 gunners or which guy wearing tan camoflauge said what.

Also, with the vehicle movements and changes of missions, it was difficult for a civilian to follow along or make sense of it but as a military guy, it was believable.

In my opinion, most of the Officers portrayed in the show looked ridiculous or otherwise completely incompetent. I don't know how true this was in real life but it almost seemed unbelievable at times.

Another thing that made perfect sense to me was the radio traffic on different nets - Platoon, Company, Battalion, etc. For my wife it was difficult to understand why one guy had information that others didn't have if they all had the same radios.

Personally, I really enjoyed the radio traffic. They also used radio calls for artillery fire, etc. on the intro and credits for each episode.

My wife found the interaction between the Marines to be shocking. She couldn't believe that Marines would really tell these sorts of off color jokes, bathroom humor and generally screwing around with each other. For me, I thought that part was totally believable.

In the DVD Extras, there is a round-table discussion with the author - Evan Wright and several of the main characters in the show. You can find this on YouTube. I was really shocked that one of the Marines played himself - Rudy Reyes.

By the end of the show, I was totally gay for Brad Colbert. And after I found out that they used the guys real names, I took a look at YouTube and found a speech given by the real Gunnery Sergeant Brad Colbert, not the actor. I'll link that below.

Anyway, I've got a few questions that I'm hoping some of the Marines around here could answer for me.
  • There is a character dubbed "Captain America" who appears to be a Platoon Leader. In Marine Recon, is it common or even possible for a Captain to be a Platoon Commander?
  • The characters in the show act like Humvees are not their normal mode of transport. Did these guys just get assigned Humvees right before the 2003 invasion of Iraq? If so, what was their normal mode of transportation?
  • At one point in the show, Team Leader Brad Colbert goes on a rant about all the training that they had to go through to get to where they are. He rattles off Airborne, Ranger, SERE, Scuba, etc. In the YouTube video I found of the real guy, he's wearing a Scuba badge. So my question is - What kinds of special training do Recon Marines get?
Thanks.

Here are two videos of the real Brad Colbert:



And a USMC OCS Recruiting commercial with LT Nate Fick:


EDIT: Add link to IMDB - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0995832/
Link to Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Kill_(miniseries)
CT'97
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Quote:

In my opinion, most of the Officers portrayed in the show looked ridiculous or otherwise completely incompetent. I don't know how true this was in real life but it almost seemed unbelievable at times.

Keep in mind the writer's view point was formed by his interaction with the junior enlisted that he was around. Those junior Marine's opinions of what the officers were doing was probably different from what was actually going on and there were a lot of other factors at play they couldn't see.
Ag_EQ12
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I don't have any answers for you, but I'll second that it's a great series. There's a book as well. Sergeant Major Sixta is hilarious! "Police that moostache!"
HollywoodBQ
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CT'97 said:

Quote:

In my opinion, most of the Officers portrayed in the show looked ridiculous or otherwise completely incompetent. I don't know how true this was in real life but it almost seemed unbelievable at times.

Keep in mind the writer's view point was formed by his interaction with the junior enlisted that he was around. Those junior Marine's opinions of what the officers were doing was probably different from what was actually going on and there were a lot of other factors at play they couldn't see.
Yeah, I get that part for sure. A lot of the interactions reminded me of my time as a junior Company Grade Officer. I'm sure if somebody did a story on my unit it would have had a similar perspective.

I did know the nickname my soldiers called me - "Lieutenant (HollywoodBQ) - The Puerto Rican Saudi Arabian". I always got a laugh out of that because normally nicknames are shorter than the person's actual name. I was just glad my nickname didn't start with MF...
JABQ04
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Great series. The banter back and forth, the **** talking, the crude humor, and the deep life discussions by members of the platoon are spot on. The monotony of war and how boring it can be was another something I thought it did fairly well to hit on punctuated by the moments of chaos. The WTF factor was another thing it got right, such as WTF did they just tell us we have do? Plenty of times we got told to do things and all you could think was " Do these morons actually hear what they are saying?"

Another marine played himself in the series in addition to Rudy Reyes. With out looking it up I think it was Corker or Kirker, he had a minor role and was more of a technical advisor. (He was the one who threatened CPT America about firing the AK).

Also John Sixta (no longer a Sergeant Major) is in jail or has recently served time for commuting sexual offenses with a minor. He's a POS. However the one scene that I think showed he wasn't a true dewshbag in the show was after the men all got their mail and morale started to drop from the bad news and he told their platoon sergeant that if things get to mo bad to let him know and he'll fire them up with the grooming standard. Hit me then that he knew exactly what he was doing, but in typical senior NCO fashion went about it the most abrasive and dewshy was possible. But now, yeah he's a POS and needs to spend lots of time in jail.
Rabid Cougar
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Watching that series was surreal.

My British Security Team (Mercs) and I drove up and down that road through Al Nasiriyah and the town of Al Gharraf more times that I could count.

We even drove the same route through Al Nasiriyah that Jessica Lynch's bunch drove and even by the hospital where was held
mrad85
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HollywoodBQ said:



Anyway, I've got a few questions that I'm hoping some of the Marines around here could answer for me.
  • There is a character dubbed "Captain America" who appears to be a Platoon Leader. In Marine Recon, is it common or even possible for a Captain to be a Platoon Commander?
  • The characters in the show act like Humvees are not their normal mode of transport. Did these guys just get assigned Humvees right before the 2003 invasion of Iraq? If so, what was their normal mode of transportation?
  • At one point in the show, Team Leader Brad Colbert goes on a rant about all the training that they had to go through to get to where they are. He rattles off Airborne, Ranger, SERE, Scuba, etc. In the YouTube video I found of the real guy, he's wearing a Scuba badge. So my question is - What kinds of special training do Recon Marines get?
Thanks.





Not a Marine, but my spawn is a Captain in the USMC and also a Recon Marine with Jump wings and Dive bubble.

In answer to your question #1. Yes, most Platoon Commanders are Captains, or very soon to be. Company Commanders typically are Majors.

#3 some, but not all Recon marines get the opportunity to go to different schools. SERE, dive @Panama City, jump @Fort Benning, HALO, and even fewer actually go to Ranger school. You'll never SEE a Ranger tab on a Marine uniform even though they have earned them, but they are there hidden.
HollywoodBQ
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JABQ04 said:

Hit me then that he knew exactly what he was doing, but in typical senior NCO fashion went about it the most abrasive and dewshy was possible. But now, yeah he's a POS and needs to spend lots of time in jail.
Exactly my thoughts as well.
HollywoodBQ
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Thanks for the detail. I used to work for a guy a few levels up from me who had been promoted way above his level of competence. I didn't hit it off with him because I didn't understand and wasn't awed when he told me he went Marine Recon. And I also made the mistake of referring to MMA/UFC as a massive dewshbag festival. This was before I found out that MMA was his jam and he actually owns a fight gym. Oh well. My technical competence kept me employed for a few more years after that faux pas.
Aggie12B
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Stay Frosty
Ulysses90
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Quote:

Keep in mind the writer's view point was formed by his interaction with the junior enlisted that he was around. Those junior Marine's opinions of what the officers were doing was probably different from what was actually going on and there were a lot of other factors at play they couldn't see.

I never watched the series except for a few clips. I probably would have watched it but I know a couple of the officers portrayed in the book and the portrayal is not anything like the Marines I know. I will grant you that Godfather's voice is a pretty good portrayal from the clip I watched. He usually speaks in very short sentences.

Wright's perspective was formed from going native among the Lcpl Mafia so that they would talk freely in front of him. Mission accomplished. If the only thing you know about the Marine Corps is how it is portrayed in Generation Kill or Terminal Lance (Uriarte is really good) you're seeing a particular perspective of a first term junior Marine. Being a "combat correspondent" does not impart superior levels if insight into the behavior of the people around you. If you write for Rolling Stone you probably come at the job of embedded journalist with a Rolling Stone perspective.

In terms of war correspondents I recommend reading Chris Chivers' work. I knew him ~24 year ago before he left active duty. He has been on both sides of what he writes about. One of the best pieces of writing about war was his article, The School, in Esquire on the minute to minute chronology of the hostage taking and massacre at Beslan.
HollywoodBQ
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I just stumbled across this Rudy Reyes video interview from last year.
He talks about his background, experiences in the Marine Corps, and after. Some really intense stuff.

HollywoodBQ
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Ulysses90 said:

Wright's perspective was formed from going native among the Lcpl Mafia so that they would talk freely in front of him. Mission accomplished. If the only thing you know about the Marine Corps is how it is portrayed in Generation Kill or Terminal Lance (Uriarte is really good) you're seeing a particular perspective of a first term junior Marine. Being a "combat correspondent" does not impart superior levels if insight into the behavior of the people around you. If you write for Rolling Stone you probably come at the job of embedded journalist with a Rolling Stone perspective.
Thanks for those comments. You definitely nailed the point of view for the show.
A. Solzhenitsyn
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Quote:

In my opinion, most of the Officers portrayed in the show looked ridiculous or otherwise completely incompetent. I don't know how true this was in real life but it almost seemed unbelievable at times.
they lost me when the captain didn't know what "danger close" meant. there isn't a Marine officer, let alone an infantry officer, let alone a RECON officer, who doesn't know what "danger close" means. GTFO with that *****

I always heard that Capt America was one Capt Ford who was stationed at the MACE at Camp Barrett when I went through TBS in 07. No idea if that is true or not. But he was a lunatic.
GAC06
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I heard that same rumor. No idea if it was true but that guy was a piece of work.
A. Solzhenitsyn
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GAC06 said:

I heard that same rumor. No idea if it was true but that guy was a piece of work.
surprising lack of information on this topic on the web. I figured that answer was out there, but I cant find it.
REJ_III
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I know him - that wasn't him. He was with 1st Recon but not until after the invasion.

Coincidentally, one of my former commanders was TBS classmates with the real Capt America from GK. He had nothing good to say about him.
A. Solzhenitsyn
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REJ_III said:

I know him - that wasn't him. He was with 1st Recon but not until after the invasion.

Coincidentally, one of my former commanders was TBS classmates with the real Capt America from GK. He had nothing good to say about him.
so who was it?

thanks for the info btw.
A.G.S.
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I know it's a bit of a bump, but LT Fick also wrote a book. It covers a lot of the same stuff as Generation Kill (albeit from a different perspective) but it also has some stuff before and after.

It's called One Bullet Away. (If I recall it's to symbolize that you are only one bullet away from your superiors job if they get taken out of the fight).

I probably read it 4 times before and after OCS. Not sure if it was ever on the Commandants reading list, but it was an enjoyable read for someone who was planning to be a Marine officer.
HollywoodBQ
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Thanks for sharing that.
One Bullet Away: The Making of a Marine Officer

Scruffy
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Thanks for the Rec.
I just picked it up on amazon.
Scruffy
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Just finished the book.
Good read.
It was interesting to see from the LT's perspective.
A. Solzhenitsyn
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I don't know Nate Fick from the man on the moon, but my impression of him is that he is a self promoting d-bag. Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it.
usmcbrooks
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A. Solzhenitsyn said:

I don't know Nate Fick from the man on the moon, but my impression of him is that he is a self promoting d-bag. Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it.
You are wrong about that. Lt Ilario Pantano was another Lt who was ****ed over. Capt Fick had the respect of his Marines as a 2nd Lt during OIF 1, very rare for that to happen. I personally know some of the Marines who served under his charge as a platoon commander.
A. Solzhenitsyn
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usmcbrooks said:

A. Solzhenitsyn said:

I don't know Nate Fick from the man on the moon, but my impression of him is that he is a self promoting d-bag. Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it.
You are wrong about that. Lt Ilario Pantano was another Lt who was ****ed over. Capt Fick had the respect of his Marines as a 2nd Lt during OIF 1, very rare for that to happen. I personally know some of the Marines who served under his charge as a platoon commander.

I don't doubt that he had a good relationship with his platoon during OIF. I'm speaking more to his actions later. But who knows, maybe he's a sweetheart.
A. Solzhenitsyn
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And maybe Pantano was ****ed over, and maybe he wasn't. I'll always give the benefit of the doubt to the commander on the ground or the guy having to make decisions on the fly in combat, and for that reason I'm glad Pantano got off. But I've also seen enough and been around enough to know that some pretty dark and shady **** happens on the battlefield too.
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