I know we all like to jump on here and complain about "New Army" and Millennials but oh my. Have a read of this article from militarytimes.com

Land nav, iron sights and more discipline: Big changes are coming to Army basic training

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Years ago, in favor of helping a decreasingly in-shape recruit pool get through basic and on the assumption that soldiers would work toward a passing APFT score at AIT and beyond the Army lowered the required recruit score to 50-50-50.

But soldiers were still showing up to their first units unable to pass a real-life PT test, Frost said.

"If you graduate basic training on Friday and you go to AIT on Monday, you're at 60 points on Monday at AIT," Frost said. "Would we send a soldier to their first unit of assignment who wasn't qualified on their weapon? No, we wouldn't."

And, he added, in units where drill sergeants prepare their recruits according to the 60-point standard, they're able to hit that mark.

"We also think that if we put the bar where the bar should be, that both the trainees and the drill sergeants will get themselves to that level," Frost said.

The requirement is waiverable by a battalion commander, however. If a soldier is very close to the 60-60-60 mark, a lieutenant colonel can use discretion to sign off on their PT scores.

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This bit shocked me. How can you not throw a hand grenade?

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CIMT discovered another troubling trend when it came to hand grenade qualification. It turns out that drill sergeants were spending hours at night, during their corrective training time, teaching trainees how to throw.

"We're finding that there are a large number of trainees that come in, recruits from America, that, quite frankly, just physically don't have the capacity to throw a hand grenade 20 to 25 to 30 meters," Frost said.

In fact, it was taking three or four times the amount of time the program allotted for hand grenade training to properly prepare recruits.

Under the new changes coming to basic, they will still get the technical and tactical knowledge required to use the grenades, Frost said, along with time familiarizing themselves on the course. But they won't have to pass it to graduate.

The same goes for land navigation.

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Kids are playing Xbox for hours a day and not baseball every daylight hour like those of us born pre 1990. That takes away from the ingrained grenade chucking skills.

ABATTBQ87 said:

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Aggies Revenge said:

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Kids are playing Xbox for hours a day and not baseball every daylight hour like those of us born pre 1990. That takes away from the ingrained grenade chucking skills.

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For us-born pre-1970 we honed our throwing skills through dodge ball, War ball, football, basketball,baseball, throwing rocks Etc

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Way back when I was a Drill Sergeant (1999-2001), we would get out to the Hand Grenade range mock bay, and find out that yes, several young males would have to be taught how to throw. Hard to believe that a young man can get to the 18-16 year old bracket and have never thrown any type or size of ball.

And then there were those who could "throw" but not get the grenade to requisite 35 meters. So, we would have to work on that one too. We actually Chaptered a couple out during my two year stint for not being able to pass that portion of Basic Training.

Does this mean they can't throw a grenade like a baseball? Or they can't do the special grenade throwing throw where you stick your non-dominant arm out and point it in the direction you want to go?

Plus, isn't this what they created the M203 for?

clarythedrill said:

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ABATTBQ87 said:

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Aggies Revenge said:

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Kids are playing Xbox for hours a day and not baseball every daylight hour like those of us born pre 1990. That takes away from the ingrained grenade chucking skills.

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For us-born pre-1970 we honed our throwing skills through dodge ball, War ball, football, basketball,baseball, throwing rocks Etc

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Way back when I was a Drill Sergeant (1999-2001), we would get out to the Hand Grenade range mock bay, and find out that yes, several young males would have to be taught how to throw. Hard to believe that a young man can get to the 18-16 year old bracket and have never thrown any type or size of ball.

And then there were those who could "throw" but not get the grenade to requisite 35 meters. So, we would have to work on that one too. We actually Chaptered a couple out during my two year stint for not being able to pass that portion of Basic Training.

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Clary, are you still in 1ABCT? Last time I saw you was in Korea. We were getting getting ready to leave and we were formed up in a parking lot. You were giving hell to all the NCOs who couldn't keep their gear from looking like a bag of ass. I forgot what mainbody I was......but glad the Army has an old Army guy like you.

How have you been?

Before ocs, i attended osut at Benning. I just remember the instructors at the hand grenade range being the biggest dicks, understandably so.

Then i attended rip and the word dick took on a new meaning.

champagnepapi said:

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clarythedrill said:

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ABATTBQ87 said:

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Aggies Revenge said:

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Kids are playing Xbox for hours a day and not baseball every daylight hour like those of us born pre 1990. That takes away from the ingrained grenade chucking skills.

---

For us-born pre-1970 we honed our throwing skills through dodge ball, War ball, football, basketball,baseball, throwing rocks Etc

---

Way back when I was a Drill Sergeant (1999-2001), we would get out to the Hand Grenade range mock bay, and find out that yes, several young males would have to be taught how to throw. Hard to believe that a young man can get to the 18-16 year old bracket and have never thrown any type or size of ball.

And then there were those who could "throw" but not get the grenade to requisite 35 meters. So, we would have to work on that one too. We actually Chaptered a couple out during my two year stint for not being able to pass that portion of Basic Training.

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Clary, are you still in 1ABCT? Last time I saw you was in Korea. We were getting getting ready to leave and we were formed up in a parking lot. You were giving hell to all the NCOs who couldn't keep their gear from looking like a bag of ass. I forgot what mainbody I was......but glad the Army has an old Army guy like you.

How have you been?

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Hey papi, no I left 1/1 back last April. I am now at Great Lakes in Cadet Command. Things are going well, just travel alot more than I would like. Cant complain though, getting lots of airline miles and hotel points, and its a fun job.

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Plus, isn't this what they created the M203 for?

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uh, no.

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What I thought was funny was that a female only had to throw it 25 meters. I have never seen a female grenade that had a smaller blast and kill radius than the male ones. Surely they are out there.....somewhere?

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dumbest thing ever.

clarythedrill said:

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bigtruckguy3500 said:

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Does this mean they can't throw a grenade like a baseball? Or they can't do the special grenade throwing throw where you stick your non-dominant arm out and point it in the direction you want to go?

Plus, isn't this what they created the M203 for?

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No, throwing like you do a baseball is just fine. We have not thrown like WWII in a long time. As for the M203, it is worthless for close in work. You would have to fire almost straight up in the air, and it could come back down on YOU.

What I thought was funny was that a female only had to throw it 25 meters. I have never seen a female grenade that had a smaller blast and kill radius than the male ones. Surely they are out there.....somewhere?

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Interesting, they taught us the arm out thing, almost like shot putting. But then they were like "you can just throw it however you like as long as it gets on target."

And yeah, I was joking about the M203. I seem to remember 5 meter kill radius and 25 meter blast radius, is that correct?

bigtruckguy3500 said:

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clarythedrill said:

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bigtruckguy3500 said:

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Does this mean they can't throw a grenade like a baseball? Or they can't do the special grenade throwing throw where you stick your non-dominant arm out and point it in the direction you want to go?

Plus, isn't this what they created the M203 for?

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No, throwing like you do a baseball is just fine. We have not thrown like WWII in a long time. As for the M203, it is worthless for close in work. You would have to fire almost straight up in the air, and it could come back down on YOU.

What I thought was funny was that a female only had to throw it 25 meters. I have never seen a female grenade that had a smaller blast and kill radius than the male ones. Surely they are out there.....somewhere?

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Interesting, they taught us the arm out thing, almost like shot putting. But then they were like "you can just throw it however you like as long as it gets on target."

And yeah, I was joking about the M203. I seem to remember 5 meter kill radius and 25 meter blast radius, is that correct?

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Yes that is correct, though I question the 5 meter kill radius, as I have seen those things land right next to people and they barely get a scratch. Luck I guess. I have never understood the Army's infatuation with the Mk 19 either, give me a .50cal any day of the week and twice on weekends.

clarythedrill said:

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champagnepapi said:

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clarythedrill said:

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ABATTBQ87 said:

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Aggies Revenge said:

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Kids are playing Xbox for hours a day and not baseball every daylight hour like those of us born pre 1990. That takes away from the ingrained grenade chucking skills.

---

For us-born pre-1970 we honed our throwing skills through dodge ball, War ball, football, basketball,baseball, throwing rocks Etc

---

Way back when I was a Drill Sergeant (1999-2001), we would get out to the Hand Grenade range mock bay, and find out that yes, several young males would have to be taught how to throw. Hard to believe that a young man can get to the 18-16 year old bracket and have never thrown any type or size of ball.

And then there were those who could "throw" but not get the grenade to requisite 35 meters. So, we would have to work on that one too. We actually Chaptered a couple out during my two year stint for not being able to pass that portion of Basic Training.

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Clary, are you still in 1ABCT? Last time I saw you was in Korea. We were getting getting ready to leave and we were formed up in a parking lot. You were giving hell to all the NCOs who couldn't keep their gear from looking like a bag of ass. I forgot what mainbody I was......but glad the Army has an old Army guy like you.

How have you been?

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Hey papi, no I left 1/1 back last April. I am now at Great Lakes in Cadet Command. Things are going well, just travel alot more than I would like. Cant complain though, getting lots of airline miles and hotel points, and its a fun job.

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That's great to hear. You are doing great things. I'm at Bragg now drinking as much koolaid as possible and calling everyone legs.