"...To the Students: Let your watchword be duty and know other talisman of success than labor. Let honor be your guiding star in your dealings with your superiors , your fellows, with all. Be as true to a trust reposed as the needle to the pole, stand by the right even to the sacrifice of life itself, and learn that death is preferable to dishonor."

For some reason this campo has stuck with me all of these years, much to the amazement of my Son and his fish buddies last year (how many of you added a "Sir" to the end when you read that?).

If you break this quote down, there is really some good solid wisdom in there, but what sticks out to me is the last line:

"Death is preferable to dishonor."

While that may have been the prevailing attitude in 1876, I don't think it meshes very well with today's societal views. It seems like the accepted norm is to cling to life at any and all costs.

I wonder why that is? Is ANYTHING truly worth giving your life for, much less honor?

I have some theories, but interested to hear others' thoughts on the subject...

I think it is still very relevant today. However, I think that the pendulum of the degree of dishonor to which it applies has swung far from where it was when this was said. Lots of politicians and military officers are alive today that would not have survived similar "dishonor" in the old days.

Is this advice given in a military sense such as surrendering vs fight to the bitter end? I guess it depends upon the flavor of enemy at the time. Are they torturing and executing (ISIS) or treating fairly with a reasonable chance of survival (used as leverage)? When I was in Iraq the first time I was told I was to expect a very public execution if captured by the Mahdi Army. The second time I as told that I was a walking ATM machine. In Afghanistan I was told it was a crap shoot depending upon who got you. Military says stay alive at all cost, even if you are forced to make statements that you would consider treasonous. You actually have to think about that and be prepared for it.

In the non-military aspect of the advice, we throw around the phrase "you have to live with it" a lot. What I think I am capable of doing tends not to go to those areas that would require me to consider "death before dishonor".

I would suggest that honor means significantly less to today's population. We as a society are willing to accept almost anything and forgive everything. The concept of being publicly shamed and not trusted after making a dishonorable choice doesn't exist. We are about to have an alleged, and seemingly credibly so, rapist elected to our countries congress. How many Generals and senior NCO's have been removed from service because of misconduct, usually sexual in nature?

Honor of Coke's day was the currency of their system. One could not sue over every contract. Courts were few and far between. Trust was paramount. Thus, if your reputation was besmirched, could one expect others to provide the best contract terms? Impugning another's reputation was the same as dinging their credit rating. Hence, the need to protect one's honor.

Nowadays, trust is of minimal value. Its about monetary power. If you fail me, I will sue you, because I can afford it.. If I don't like what you provided, even if contractually correct, I may just not pay you - asserting instead that you, as the small guy, should take less than the agreed total. You don't have the money to fight well-heeled me. My reputation is of little consequence - I have the money to affect your life. I can engage in all the criminal or unethical behavior I want. Worse that can happen is that my reputation takes a hit and, maybe, I pay out a little money. But I will get even more money, therefore - so what about you.

Still, in some areas honor is, and has been, of import. Certainly honor was of importance in my Corps of Cadets. We had cadets reprimanded for honor violations. You had to be able to trust your buddies, your upperclassmen, and - because it affected your own reputation and life - to trust your underclassmen.

I wish honor was still the coin of the realm.

lb3 said:

---

Animal said:

---

"...To the Students: Let your watchword be duty and know no other talisman of success than labor. Let honor be your guiding star in your dealings with your superiors , your fellows, with all. Be as true to a trust reposed as the needle to the pole, stand by the right even to the sacrifice of life itself, and learn that death is preferable to dishonor."

---

fify. Now push fish Animal.

---

Just saw this...knocking them out right now Sir.....

In regards to the other posts, I think you are right about the sliding definition of honor.

I also think that life was lost much easier in those days from anything ranging from a bad case of the flu to an infected cut on your finger. As life became less fragile I think we cling to it more tightly. Also, as we become a more self-centered/self-serving society, my own well-being (the ultimate expression of that being my life) has become paramount to all other considerations.

I don't think this is a positive evolution but I think, ultimately, it will take a major world altering event to reverse it.