Soldiers find it hard to kill the enemy

2,714 Views | 14 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by Say Chowdah
HustlerAggie
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SIAP

I found this video on the difficulty soldiers have to kill the enemy interesting




I wonder with the rise of first-person shooter video games if modern soldiers are more desensitized to killing than those in the past?
TangoMike
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Read "On Killing" by Dave Grossman. Decades of research have been poured into this topic, so much so that post-WWII rifle qualification was on Ivans instead of bullseye targets.
m-walker
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AG
Black Mirror S03E05 - Men Against Fire
HustlerAggie
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m-walker said:

Black Mirror S03E05 - Men Against Fire
Black Mirror is a great show. That episode immediately sprung to mind when I saw this.
DogCo84
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AG
When I went through Army BCT in 1986, the RIFLE range targets were mono-color human silhouettes. On the fire/maneuver, grenade and bayonet ranges, the targets were vaguely Slavic-looking cartoon figures with big red stars on the front of their helmets.

Some confusion ensued when the US bombed Tripoli/Khadafy in the middle of our BCT cycle. Drill Sergeants immediately re-wrote marching jodies to include references to "killing Khadafy", and "to show Khadafy", etc. Previously, the references had been to "kill a Commie" and "to show the Commies".
Presley OBannons Sword
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Tribe2013 said:

Read "On Killing" by Dave Grossman. Decades of research have been poured into this topic, so much so that post-WWII rifle qualification was on Ivans instead of bullseye targets.
LOTS of criticism and controversy surrounding SLA Marshall's methods, which was where Grossman got most of his stuff for On Killing. Still an enjoyable read, and I recommend it, but take it with a grain of salt.

As someone who has been blown up and been shot at, and directed fires on bad guys, I can tell you that I had no qualms about killing, and it wasn't because I played xbox or shot at ivan targets, it was because I like living.
Rabid Cougar
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AG
Presley OBannons Sword said:

Tribe2013 said:

Read "On Killing" by Dave Grossman. Decades of research have been poured into this topic, so much so that post-WWII rifle qualification was on Ivans instead of bullseye targets.

As someone who has been blown up and been shot at, and directed fires on bad guys, I can tell you that I had no qualms about killing, and it wasn't because I played xbox or shot at ivan targets, it was because I like living.
I second the statement above. Been blown up twice and shot at to many times to count in the Kunar and Pech and I didn't even carry a weapon. My SecFor (Mass. National Guard) didn't blink an eye when they were putting them down or calling for the Kiowas, 155's or 120's. They made sure I knew how to operate every weapon system they had. There were times I wished I had access to one and I have never played shooter video games.
JABQ04
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AG
I'll agree 100% on the "I like living" aspect. Granted the vast vast majority of rounds miss their intended targets, but I never saw an instance where anyone in my platoon did not engage an enemy when the situation called for it. (And yes that's a fairly small sample size).
TangoMike
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As for the CAS or indirect, research has shown that people calling for these are able to create a psychological dissonance to free themselves from the moral qualms of killing. Since they are not the ones firing, and are not able to intimately see the results, they are free from the strong moral resistance to killing. Same goes for the guy pulling the lanyard on the 155 - he is kilometers away and may not even see the round impact, much less it's immediate results.

And I'm not sure how "I watched other people shoot" proves anything other than you were not the one charged with making the final disposition.

Oh, and leave the "as somebody who's been blown up..." crap. There's plenty of people on this board that give opinions from personal experiences
Presley OBannons Sword
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I'm not talking about CAS or IDF. I'm talking about machine gun and rifle fire. I shouldn't have said "fires".
Presley OBannons Sword
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And there aren't a lot of studies showing that infantryman purposely aimed away from human targets in WW2. For the most part, there is one guy who presented this theory, and he has been largely discredited.

Don't take it so personally when someone disagrees with you.


Ok well I see you edited out the ww2 stuff.
Rabid Cougar
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AG
Tribe2013 said:

As for the CAS or indirect, research has shown that people calling for these are able to create a psychological dissonance to free themselves from the moral qualms of killing. Since they are not the ones firing, and are not able to intimately see the results, they are free from the strong moral resistance to killing. Same goes for the guy pulling the lanyard on the 155 - he is kilometers away and may not even see the round impact, much less it's immediate results.

And I'm not sure how "I watched other people shoot" proves anything other than you were not the one charged with making the final disposition.

Oh, and leave the "as somebody who's been blown up..." crap. There's plenty of people on this board that give opinions from personal experiences
I am sorry but did I hit the wrong button? I don't believe I belittled anyone's experiences or opinions.
Presley OBannons Sword
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Quote:

Oh, and leave the "as somebody who's been blown up..." crap. There's plenty of people on this board that give opinions from personal experiences
what does this even mean?
Paladin05
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AG
Presley OBannons Sword said:

As someone who has been blown up and been shot at, and directed fires on bad guys, I can tell you that I had no qualms about killing, and it wasn't because I played xbox or shot at ivan targets, it was because I like living.
Say Chowdah
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AG
Maybe you are misreading it?

I took it as saying - this is MY PERSONAL experience only.

Or maybe I am misreading it.
Say Chowdah
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AG
I didn't read it as such.
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