Is it true that Spider D is getting integrated this fall?

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Roughneck_D-1_Ag13
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3:10p, 12/9/13
This is my first post so I hope I'm doing it right. I'm a Dead Zip from D-1 (class of 13). I heard rumors that my old outfit will be integrated next fall. Is this true? If so, it would come as quite a shock to me. I would've guessed Spider D would be the last outfit they'd integrate. Is the office of the commandant trying to make an example out of D-1 or make some type of statement relative to the new army approach the corps seems to be taking? Would love to know more and hear others' thoughts on this.

Thanks & Gig 'Em
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jeffreyj05
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8:58p, 12/9/13
AG
Surprised they aren't already. When I was there (I-1), I was on the no integration bandwagon. But I've changed my stance on this now...should be done.
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DevilD77
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9:00a, 12/10/13
AG
All units need to be integrated. Cadets need to get used to closely cooperating with women in all enviornments.
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Tango Mike
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9:33a, 12/10/13
The ASA-M&RA was asking last Friday which (not if) Ranger class would be the pilot for female attendees. Fighting it for "tradition" will only get one steamrolled
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CanyonAg77
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9:50a, 12/10/13
AG
quote:
All units need to be integrated.

Not enough females in the Corps for this to happen. Don't know how you change that.
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denied
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11:00a, 12/10/13
quote:
Not enough females in the Corps for this to happen.


I am willing to bet that the female composition of the Corps is comparable to one or more branches of the military.

The non gender integrated units need to be integrated (even if only 3 or 4 girls go to them) and build from there. When (if) women show up in the infantry they aren't going to comprise 15% of the branch. The current cadets need to be able to handle the changes of the future military and I think their time at A&M would be a very reasonable place to learn how to deal with those issues.
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bigtruckguy3500
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11:58a, 12/10/13
quote:
(even if only 3 or 4 girls go to them)


I see no problem with integrating all the units, but there should be more than this per unit. I think it would depend on the size of the unit to determine the minimum number of females. Adding 3-4 females to a 100 person male unit would be a lot different than 3-4 females in a 30 person unit. Also, I think there needs to be several female upperclassmen to mentor the freshmen, and at least 2-3 female fish.

Also, it's unfortunate, but when you put only a handful of female fish into a previously unintegrated unit, you end up putting them into a very bad position.
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jfadious08
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12:12p, 12/10/13
quote:
All units need to be integrated. Cadets need to get used to closely cooperating with women in all environments.


I don't understand this attitude. I was in an all male outfit. Somehow I have managed to make through 5 years of integrated military life with no issues.

Canyon is correct. I'm guessing that around 60-70 girls join the corps each year. If there are ~30 outfits, this would mean each fish class would have ~2 girls. Girls already have a high attrition rate. Integrating every outfit would make it WAY higher.

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CanyonAg77
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2:24p, 12/10/13
AG
Forty units in the Corps. Two hundred women in the Corps. I suspect that many of those are in the Band.

Not enough females to go around.

Some units will have to be all male.

If you are worried that all-male units will develop an anti-female culture: Get rid of the disaster that is recruiting. Assign cadets to units.
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bigplay
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2:37p, 12/10/13
Almost 170 female freshmen joined the Corps this year, 18% of the fish class. Goal is 20% or more next year. Well over 300 women in the Corps now and growing fast. Newly integrated outfits get female fish, sophomores, juniors and seniors.
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bigplay
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3:01p, 12/10/13
Also, we have 42 outfits now, 7 more than 3 years ago. 31 are integrated. 2 more outfits forming for next Fall, both integrated.
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jeffreyj05
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6:39p, 12/10/13
AG
It'll happen. Showing resistance to it will only accelerate and add fuel to getting it done. Not like these outfits are special operations outfits...but then again, SPECOPS in the big boy military is doing it too.
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CanyonAg77
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7:50p, 12/10/13
AG
quote:
Well over 300 women in the Corps now and growing fast.

1) Good

2) http://corps.tamu.edu/Texas-AM-Corps-of-Cadets/women-in-the-corps.html
quote:
there are over 200 women in the Corps

I tried to be accurate. And 300 into 42 outfits is still only 7 per outfit, 2 per class per outfit.

Again, at least a partial solution would be more uniform outfit sizes through assignment, so your 7-8 females would be in an outfit of 40-50, rather than in one of 100 or more.
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bigplay
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8:39p, 12/10/13
We do assign fish to outfits now and we have achieved more uniformed fish class size and overall unit size. We no longer have any outfits anywhere close to 100 and we also no longer have any tiny outfits either. Not sure where you got the "disaster that is recruiting". Corps Recruiting has grown the Corps by over 500 in 4 years.
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rebel06
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9:59a, 12/11/13
AG
I'm sure many will disagree with me but I think there is something special about being in an all-male outfit and even all-male and all-female dorms for non-regs. There are certain bonds that are developed amongst all-male outfits that you cannot have within integrated outfits.

Male and female cadets will still interact with each other outside of their own outfit and dorm so why force integration? There are certain instances where a group should be limited to being all-male or all-female (athletic team, locker room, society/club, etc.) and in most other instances it is perfectly acceptable to have men and women integrated.
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CanyonAg77
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10:59a, 12/11/13
AG
quote:
We do assign fish to outfits now and we have achieved more uniformed fish class size and overall unit size. We no longer have any outfits anywhere close to 100 and we also no longer have any tiny outfits either. Not sure where you got the "disaster that is recruiting". Corps Recruiting has grown the Corps by over 500 in 4 years.

Recruiting to outfits is what I am referring to as a disaster. It resulted in the huge outfits and the tiny outfits that you say is no longer allowed. Yea!

And Corps recruiting has been around for 40 years. Claiming success for 10% of that time is no victory.
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GarryowenAg
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11:35a, 12/11/13
AG
I sure as hell hope they don't. I'm currently in the military and regularly work with and interact with female soldiers and don't have any issues with it. There are tons of female soldiers that I enjoy working with. That being said, I wouldn't change my experiences with my buddies one bit. Why force integration just to proove a point? There are plenty of outfits out there for female cadets to choose from.
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SpiDer2008
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1:37p, 12/11/13
AG
I Second '09. No, I haven't served and I know that is how the military is. However coming from an integrated outfit, into SpiDer D and earning SpiDer brass, I never would've dreamed of forming the bond I did with my buddies in SpiDer D. Integration in outfits is fine but there is something that makes my outfit special and being non integrated is one of those things. I hope they don't integrate it. I saw how much it changed my Dad's old outfit when they integrated it and I don't want that for my old outfit. Blast from the past, Last of the Redass....
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bigplay
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2:33p, 12/11/13
Ok Canyon. I've only worked for Corps Recruiting for 4 years so I guess I'll claim victory. We can always use help with recruiting across the state of Texas in high schools, College Nights and other related events. I know it is harder to help than to complain on TexAgs but your help is always welcome.
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jfadious08
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3:53p, 12/11/13
I was in an all male outfit and I still interacted with females all the time. They lived in our dorm, they were in our classes, they worked with those of us on staff, they were in the Cav, RV's, and FDT (and every other special unit), we ate lunch with them in duncan, we trained with them during NROTC/PLC activities... the list goes on.

To insist on forcing girls to be spread so thin that there are only 3-4 female fish in an outfit is dumb, and to assume that male cadets won't be able to function in military life because they didn't have females in their outfit is extremely ignorant.

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Aggie 509th
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8:07p, 12/11/13
AG
.

[This message has been edited by Aggie 509th (edited 12/16/2013 5:17a).]
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jeffreyj05
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9:24p, 12/11/13
AG
Lets all be honest...anyone that served in the corps after the class of 2004 (maybe 2005) didn't get the same experience. Corps brass push is way easier, the duty day is a cake walk, and the list goes on. Putting women in all the outfits create an environment and traits we wish more people had...Adaptive Leadership. Thumbs up on integration.
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DevilD77
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9:47p, 12/11/13
AG
Spider 08 and 09, your arguments are the same ones that were being used back in the spring of '74 when it was announced that women would be allowed into the Corps. The arguments were bogus then and they are bogus now.
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Spider D stickdick
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10:45p, 12/11/13
"Not enough females to go around."

ain't that always been the truth

[This message has been edited by Dustin Stewart, D-1, 03 (edited 12/11/2013 10:49p).]
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jock15
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11:09p, 12/11/13
AG
77 what's wrong with keeping the all male outfits all male. The corps says it is the keepers of the spirit and guardian of tradition. Then as guardians of the traditions shouldn't the Corps guard the very tradition that was started with the university in the all male companies.
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bigtruckguy3500
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11:26p, 12/11/13
quote:
Then as guardians of the traditions shouldn't the Corps guard the very tradition that was started with the university in the all male companies.

Then we should kick out the non-regs and go back to living in tents.

There's nothing wrong with having all male outfits, but I'd hardly call it a tradition. Plus, times change, and organizations have to adapt to stay relevant. Plus, it's not like integrating outfits is suddenly going to mean no one is going to have any fun and fish buddies are going to be little more than a couple folks that live in the same hallway.
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TXAggie03
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12:54a, 12/12/13
AG
Better dead than coed!
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Credible Source
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7:15a, 12/12/13
AG
quote:
Better dead than coed!


+1. I'm gonna go take my signs back if this happens for real. To be honest, I will believe it when I see it, it's been tried before. Also, WTF is Duty Day?

[This message has been edited by Carl hungus (edited 12/12/2013 7:41a).]
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jock15
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8:03a, 12/12/13
AG
I wasn't saying make the corps go back to only males. I'm saying the outfits that are all male Keep them that way as a way to maintain the connection between were the corps started and where we are now.
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GarryowenAg
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9:34a, 12/12/13
AG
Can someone explain what a STEM outfit is?
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DevilD77
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10:13a, 12/12/13
AG
quote:
77 what's wrong with keeping the all male outfits all male. The corps says it is the keepers of the spirit and guardian of tradition. Then as guardians of the traditions shouldn't the Corps guard the very tradition that was started with the university in the all male companies.


Then should we also have all white units?
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GarryowenAg
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10:33a, 12/12/13
AG
Good argument there 77
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jock15
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11:29a, 12/12/13
AG
to be fair we already have some white outfits
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bigplay
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12:30p, 12/12/13
Ok Jock15. I challenge you to name an all white outfit in Corps?
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jock15
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1:01p, 12/12/13
AG
alright my bad. I overgeneralized there
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