Props A, B & C

6,566 Views | 69 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by jgh85Ag
ValleyRatAg
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How are you voting? I haven't read much about them. Would like to hear from someone who has and what their potential impacts would be.

Edit: On the surface, they look like a disaster for our city.
p_bubel
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While generally for limiting power of the elected I'm not a fan of these three. The first, increasing propositions on the general ballot is kind of a mess and lowering the threshold to just 20,000 signatures would make everything fair game.

The second and third limiting pay of the city manager and the term of office is eye-rolling and purely vindictive. She gets paid a lot, yes, but in the overall budget scheme ($2.8 Billion) it's a drop in the budget.
p_bubel
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I ran across this:

Quote:

Steele who earned a total compensation of more than $184,000 in taxpayer dollars in 2016, and whose lengthy tenure as union president has cost taxpayers more than $3 million in total compensation since 2005 ought to be more responsive to the public's queries, particularly when they concern his attempts to cost the public more in taxes.
LINK

Is the firefighter's union boss paid by the city? Does anyone know anything more specific as that doesn't sound right...

I guess if they're paying him as an active member of the force while he does his duty as a union boss that would make some sense. That just seems weird to me.
p_bubel
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If I may go off the rails further, the fact we pay $370,000 per year to the Esperanza Peace and Justice Center is far more concerning than the city managers salary. IIRC, that's over half their budget. ( I can't find the link anymore)

Burdizzo
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I am a law and order person and support the FD, but the behavior of these two unions is really turning me off. I would like to see more accountability from our local government, but if the unions are pushing these initiatives I plan to vote against it . I hate that it has come to this.

Instead of harping on Sculleys salary, they ought to be harping on the CEOs at SAWS and CPS and their top heavy management.
SoTxAg
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Nope vote for me.
tx1c
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I was at an event last week and mayor Ron was there pushing to vote 'no' on them.
Take that for what it's worth.
Burdizzo
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The sitting politicians aren't going to be in favor of it because it means they have to listen to someone besides their handlers.

FWIW, I went to a neighborhood association meeting a few weeks ago where Clayton Perry was in attendance. He said he was not allowed to say yay or nay on A B and C because he was a sitting council member.
ValleyRatAg
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Prop A, puts important decisions in the hands of the mob. Not that I trust our city council any more than the 3% that elected them, but we are a democratic republic not a let's decide all by popular vote tyranny.

Prop B, kills our ability to hire/keep a qualified city manager. Only upstarts and failures will be attracted to the position.

Prop C, gives the firefighters union the ability to bypass our elected representatives and take any dispute directly to binding arbitration (voters will have no say in the decision).

Did I get the above correct? Looks like I am a no vote on all 3.
Burdizzo
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I guess I should clarify Nirenberg being against it is not always a bad thing. I just don't like Nirenberg. His motivation to be against it may not be the same as mine, however.
treetop flyer
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Nope all around.
datwin9
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Easy "no" on all three
valtosca
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Devil's advocate: How is lowering the threshold to just 20,000 signatures a bad idea or even "mob rule"? It only decreases the number of signatures required for referendum petitions. The petition will still need to be voted on. San Antonio City Hall is dominated by Democrats so this may be an effective means to more easily combat/reverse their stupid decisions.
ValleyRatAg
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Good point and an angle I hadn't considered. It would change the dynamic of everything. I worry that you would see a petition about everything. Maybe it would encourage more of San Antonio to vote as people may show up for things they care about which could possibly make it to a referendum:
1. Reimagining the Alamo
2. Rainbow Crosswalks
3. Sick Pay Ordinance

Who is financing the Vote Yes and Vote No campaigns?

ValleyRatAg
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https://therivardreport.com/sas-november-challenge-defeating-fire-unions-charter-amendments/

Interesting article for voting no.
valtosca
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And items 2 and 3 are exactly why I'm tempted to want to see Prop A passed.
valtosca
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#2 is a waste of City money (yeah, yeah, it was privately funded... sure, okay). A good counter point would be any vote by a proposition would cost money too.
Good Bull Jones 17
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I did some minimal research yesterday and was thinking of voting Yes on A, Yes on B, and No on C.

I agree with valtosca that I don't see how A created mob rule. Propositions would still have to pass.

I looked it up, and most city managers make around $200K, ours makes $550K, and the proposition would limit the salary to about $290K (10x the lowest salary I saw on the city's list of pay ranges). Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Prop C just seems awfully lopsided in favor of the union. Not sure I trust unions all that much.
jgh85Ag
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The city's, CPS's and SAWS' bond ratings will take a hit which will cost you money if these pass.
valtosca
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jgh85Ag said:

The city's, CPS's and SAWS' bond ratings will take a hit which will cost you money if these pass.


That's what the "No" campaign says and what the "Yes" campaign refutes. Shocker eh!? How can we "fact check" this?
Good Bull Jones 17
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Was there a study or a report or statement from a bond rating agency, or is that just propaganda from the city? Not attacking you, just questioning the source.

Furthermore, after 2008, didn't a lot of folks lose trust in bond agencies anyway?
jgh85Ag
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Rating agencies look at how willing a board is to raise rates when needed to make sure an entity has sufficient revenues to cover their debt service. Having that uncertainty would make the rating agencies nervous about future rate increases.

CPS is issuing bonds next week. All three rating agency reports said passage would be viewed negatively and could lead to a downgrade if rate setting flexibility is curtailed.

Can't prove it until it happens.
p_bubel
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Quote:

I looked it up, and most city managers make around $200K, ours makes $550K, and the proposition would limit the salary to about $290K
There's only one city larger than San Antonio with a city manager, and no one else has been at the same job as long as she has. Hell, her former employee Broadnax, who is now the City of Dallas City Manager, has only been on the job 2 years and is making $400,000
APHIS AG
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p_bubel said:

Quote:

I looked it up, and most city managers make around $200K, ours makes $550K, and the proposition would limit the salary to about $290K
There's only one city larger than San Antonio with a city manager, and no one else has been at the same job as long as she has. Hell, her former employee Broadnax, who is now the City of Dallas City Manager, has only been on the job 2 years and is making $400,000
And that does not include a housing allowance, a car allowance, and a nice bonus at the end of the year plus a husband that makes $100,000 for a job to bring in professional sports teams to the city.

Time for her to go.
p_bubel
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All city managers get those same perks.


Her pay is going rate for a large city after 13 years.
p_bubel
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Austin's brand new city manager started at $325,000. He's 38. Limiting it to below market value is just stupid.


MookieBlaylock
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Yip voting NO on all 3

The lack of information is intentional which is how they got that terdburger preK bs thru

SA68AG
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I'm voting no to annexation and hopefully will never have to deal with this kind of crap.
valtosca
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Out of curiosity when Austin was mentioned I decided to look up what are the requirements for a petition in Austin:
"The governing body shall submit a proposed [ordinance] to the voters for their approval at an election if the submission is supported by a petition signed by a number of qualified voters of the municipality equal to at least five percent of the number of qualified voters of the municipality or 20,000, whichever number is the smaller."
They also have the 180 days to collect the signatures.
Source: http://austintexas.gov/page/initiative-petitions

San Antonio Prop A:
"Within one hundred eighty (180) days after the enactment by the council of any ordinance which is subject to a referendum, a petition signed by qualified electors of the city equal in number to at least ten percent of the electors qualified to vote at the last preceding regular municipal election, or by twenty thousand (20,000) qualified electors, whichever number is less, may be filed with the city clerk requesting that any such ordinance be either repealed or submitted to a vote of the electors."

So it seems pretty clear San Antonio would essentially have the same requirements as Austin.

The bond rating argument is an argument that I feel holds water. A reduced bond rating would truly increase our borrowing costs.

Now, San Antonio and Austin have both enjoyed AAA bond ratings since at least 2010 according to an article and a press release I've found:
"http://www.austintexas.gov/news/rating-agencies-reaffirm-highest-bond-rating-austin"
"https://therivardreport.com/city-receives-aaa-bond-rating-for-9th-year-in-a-row/"

How can a rating agency justify reducing our bond rating when a city just north of us has had the same referendum requirements and a AAA rating since 2010?

I am open to be persuaded...Pick holes in my argument... What am I missing?
BoozerRed78
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No to all three
MookieBlaylock
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These should all be voted no

Zero education being put out there if you want me to vote yes give me more info not a bunch of bs signs
I don't pity SA Fireman at all they make great money with great benefits

Sorry
O'Doyle Rules
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MookieBlaylock said:

These should all be voted no

Zero education being put out there if you want me to vote yes give me more info not a bunch of bs signs
I don't pity SA Fireman at all they make great money with great benefits


Sorry


Yep. And the fire union hired a firm in Buda to collect their petition signatures. They don't need any more power than they already have. Private sector benefits get no where close to SA fire and police benefits
CyclingAg82
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Voted No on all of them.

SanAntoneAg
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Got a flyer in the mail today saying that "the Republican Party" supports all three. I'm smelling BS.
Gig 'em! '90
Burdizzo
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SanAntoneAg said:

Got a flyer in the mail today saying that "the Republican Party" supports all three. I'm smelling BS.


There was also an ad run the other night saying Dem and Republican parties both support the propositions. I didn't believe that.
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