Spent last week helping a brother with a detached man-space in his back yard.

He has a span that is 22' 5" inside to inside on the exterior wall or 23' over to over.

He's splitting a 13' span and supporting 2x8 rafters on 16" OC

He bought four 24' 2x6 LVL beams. We glued them together and put three 3" screws every six inches.

We ended up with two 2x6 beams 3.5" thick and then stacked them with glue in between.

I don't feel like this will pass City of Dallas code.

I have tried five different online calculators and it's very clear I don't know what I am doing.

My rule of thumb has always been to go too big / oversize it and not worry about it.

Anyone willing to help will be greatly appreciated.

I do not follow your message, but here are the pine span tables for you to review. You mention LVL and 2x8s, so I don't follow.

https://www.southernpine.com/span-tables/joists-rafters/

The LVL beams are 23' long with an open span of 22' 5" These are two 2x6 by 1 3/4" LVLs glued and nailed together. We built two like this and then stacked them to make a single beam that is 3.5" wide by 11.875" tall.

They will be directly supporting the roof rafters that are 2x8 on 16" centers. the 2x8 rafters are spanning 13' with this LVL beam splitting the difference. <-- this is the load with decking and metal roof.

The bottom of the rafters will also have bead board as the ceiling material, so that is added to the "load"

What I am trying to ascertain for my brother is a chart that says what he's done is good enough or not good enough to pass City of Dallas building code. He's not buying me saying "Bro, that's not big enough..."

I am of the opinion that the weight of the top beam overloads the bottom beam.

Are these LVLs useable / salvageable? Does he need to put x amount of gussets on them? U shaped straps?

Purchase a large gluelam beam and call it a day?

GrimesCoAg95 said:

---

I do not follow your message, but here are the pine span tables for you to review. You mention LVL and 2x8s, so I don't follow.

https://www.southernpine.com/span-tables/joists-rafters/

---

LVL is Laminated Veneer Lumber. i.e. Manufactured beams. The span table you linked is for pine wood joists and rafters. Different materials.

I thank you though!

Well, no one prudent will publish here an answer when blind to all going on & no control over installation nor future storage loads.
So I see how difficult it has become to get a simple LVL table that helps these days.
Here's the only one that made sense to me but betting not to you.
https://sherwoodlumber.com/wp-content/uploads/pdf/GP-LAM-Specs.pdf

As far as my framing calculator goes, whose results MUST be checked by the supplier's mfr. staff on THEIR calculators ALWAYS prior to purchase and then properly STORED.
Using 32psf roof (27/5 live/dead loads) and restricting storage to 10psf then
Spans are 22.5' beam supporting flanking joists 6.5' spans (splitting the 13') ... seems he would have gone the other way, shorter spans ...
1.9E Microllam LVL 2x1.75"x14" flitch beam (Google for fasteners, et al.)
Adding a 3rd one doesn't help reduce depth and no lesser depth offered by this calc.
2.0E Parallam PSL 1x3.5"x14" or 1x7x11.25, etc.
As one can see, it's not the loads, it's the beam looong span afoot requiring such strength/depths.

If you want to place a 6x6 post mid-span w/proper foundation, then 2 LVLs only 7.25"h might be OK

If you place 2-6x6 post beam supports, then only 3 of those LVLs you have "2x6" are required.


Finally I took away the 10psf storage loads to serve at a moot case, only to see no great improvements and none that suggested your 4x2x6 LVL, even with a center post helper. SIGH

Now reading the 4 are stacked 2-wide, 2-tall.
For decades now no engineer has allowed me to stack eng.lumber in this manner, sorry.
Soooo when (not if) he installs the homemade beam and it works for at least a year, PLEASE send me photos that I would love to see, as I was not permitted such a solution.

Even when 2xs are laid flat, then stacked into a Glulam beam configuration, the engineers would only allow such to be manufactured under controlled conditions. There's a slipping problem that complicated calculations prove "not worth it" when stock solutions can be easily designed/bought.

If not disposable, then begin thinking how to sister both sides with something proven to make that span.
My thoughts run toward a welder that might have some steel to sister on and insure all LVLs now work monolithically .... usually this steel is placed center and the result termed flitch beam. SOP = 2x12 - 1/2"steel - 2x12 prior to eng.lumber taking over.

If you don't have an
engineer
architect
lumber yard
to help then please phone the supplier to be led to the ones that calculate such things daily.

tgivaughn said:

---

Well, no one prudent will publish here an answer when blind to all going on & no control over installation nor future storage loads.
So I see how difficult it has become to get a simple LVL table that helps these days.
Here's the only one that made sense to me but betting not to you.
https://sherwoodlumber.com/wp-content/uploads/pdf/GP-LAM-Specs.pdf

As far as my framing calculator goes, whose results MUST be checked by the supplier's mfr. staff on THEIR calculators ALWAYS prior to purchase and then properly STORED.
Using 32psf roof (27/5 live/dead loads) and restricting storage to 10psf then
Spans are 22.5' beam supporting flanking joists 6.5' spans (splitting the 13') ... seems he would have gone the other way, shorter spans ...
1.9E Microllam LVL 2x1.75"x14" flitch beam (Google for fasteners, et al.)
Adding a 3rd one doesn't help reduce depth and no lesser depth offered by this calc.
2.0E Parallam PSL 1x3.5"x14" or 1x7x11.25, etc.
As one can see, it's not the loads, it's the beam looong span afoot requiring such strength/depths.

If you want to place a 6x6 post mid-span w/proper foundation, then 2 LVLs only 7.25"h might be OK

If you place 2-6x6 post beam supports, then only 3 of those LVLs you have "2x6" are required.


Finally I took away the 10psf storage loads to serve at a moot case, only to see no great improvements and none that suggested your 4x2x6 LVL, even with a center post helper. SIGH

If you don't have an
engineer
architect
lumber yard
to help then please phone the supplier to be led to the ones that calculate such things daily.

---

Thank you, Sir! Fully understand and appreciate your response. I will pass the bolded parts on to my brother.

tgivaughn said:

---

As far as my framing calculator goes, whose results MUST be checked by the supplier's mfr. staff on THEIR calculators ALWAYS prior to purchase and then properly STORED.
Using 32psf roof (27/5 live/dead loads) and restricting storage to 10psf then
Spans are 22.5' beam supporting flanking joists 6.5' spans (splitting the 13') ... seems he would have gone the other way, shorter spans ...

The roof is on a slightly less than 2/12 pitch from front to back.

The main room inside dimensions are 22' 5" by 13'. The front wall is 14' tall and it slopes to the back of the structure.

1.9E Microllam LVL 2x1.75"x14" flitch beam (Google for fasteners, et al.)
Adding a 3rd one doesn't help reduce depth and no lesser depth offered by this calc.
2.0E Parallam PSL 1x3.5"x14" or 1x7x11.25, etc.
As one can see, it's not the loads, it's the beam looong span afoot requiring such strength/depths.

If you want to place a 6x6 post mid-span w/proper foundation, then 2 LVLs only 7.25"h might be OK

If you place 2-6x6 post beam supports, then only 3 of those LVLs you have "2x6" are required.


Finally I took away the 10psf storage loads to serve at a moot case, only to see no great improvements and none that suggested your 4x2x6 LVL, even with a center post helper. SIGH

Now reading the 4 are stacked 2-wide, 2-tall.
For decades now no engineer has allowed me to stack eng.lumber in this manner, sorry.

The last house I framed / corniced was in 2005. Built and sold 4 spec homes that year.

I put myself through A&M and after graduation subcontracting frame and cornice of custom and production homes. until a back injury force me to use my education.

I too never stacked beams. I was given blue prints and made my material lists from there and just erected what was in the plan. He's trying to be his own GC and I think I have talked him into hiring one.

Soooo when (not if) he installs the homemade beam and it works for at least a year, PLEASE send me photos that I would love to see, as I was not permitted such a solution.

The 'ol eyeball test says he will be "upgrading" the beam to something bigger.

Even when 2xs are laid flat, then stacked into a Glulam beam configuration, the engineers would only allow such to be manufactured under controlled conditions. There's a slipping problem that complicated calculations prove "not worth it" when stock solutions can be easily designed/bought.

If not disposable, then begin thinking how to sister both sides with something proven to make that span.
My thoughts run toward a welder that might have some steel to sister on and insure all LVLs now work monolithically .... usually this steel is placed center and the result termed flitch beam. SOP = 2x12 - 1/2"steel - 2x12 prior to eng.lumber taking over.

If you don't have an
engineer
architect This is the call he needs to make!
lumber yard
to help then please phone the supplier to be led to the ones that calculate such things daily.

---

Again, thanks everyone for sound information!

I guess you already know that #2SYP 2x8@16"oc easily span 13ft as roof rafters with no need of a beam to help.

I can't find my little black book (Roofer's Framing Bible). I am sure there's a phone app that replaces the little black book.

Grimes gave a link above
It seems to agree with my calculator (2x8s)
on this page
http://www.southernpine.com/app/uploads/SPtable17_060113.pdf

tgivaughn said:

---

I guess you already know that #2SYP 2x8@16"oc easily span 13ft as roof rafters with no need of a beam to help.

---

14' 9" to be exact. That's with no snow load and he's using the rafter as the ceiling with beaded wood.

I don't know how much of a snow factor, if any, is used in Dallas building codes.

tgivaughn said:

---

Grimes gave a link above
It seems to agree with my calculator (2x8s)
on this page
http://www.southernpine.com/app/uploads/SPtable17_060113.pdf

---

interesting that the link from Southern Pine says 16' 4"

I found this link and it's only 14' 9"

https://www.fs.usda.gov/t-d/snow_load/states.htm
Texas
Use IBC 20030 psf-20 psf
but IRC, year ???? applies here or NOT (this may be shed, so omitted from occupancy)
and Dallas may have ordinance tweaks

Better make him phone up the City Build.Official but maybe he's evading a permit? No need for one? Any building setbacks?

Am I the only one who can't even understand what size/shape this area is supposed to be?

ABATTBQ11 said:

---

Am I the only one who can't even understand what size/shape this area is supposed to be?

---

The room in question is 23' x 13'

The beam is parallel with the 23' walls, dividing the 13' in half.

|______________| < front wall 23'
| |
|______________| <- beam 23'
| |
|______________| <- back wall 23'

*not drawn to scale….

Tried to edit the drawing twice since most of the spaces are being removed. It's a rectangle 23'x13' with a 23' beam down the middle.

Hope that helps?

Then why the heck would you need the beam down the middle? Very confused. Just use 2'x8' or 2x10' rafters/joists.

Why not run a 13' LVL down the middle perpendicular to the front and back wall?

Buck Compton said:

---

Then why the heck would you need the beam down the middle? Very confused. Just use 2'x8' or 2x10' rafters/joists.

---

This. A 13' span is not very long. You could easily do 2x8's across it, and probably 2x6's if going with 16" oc.

Buck Compton said:

---

Then why the heck would you need the beam down the middle? Very confused. Just use 2'x8' or 2x10' rafters/joists.

---

I hear you, but not my project. The rafters will also be the ceiling with a beadboard on it and I don't know how much weight that adds to it.

He fired himself as the GC this week and going to hire someone to finish. He has the means, he's just cheap and it's going to cost him. Apparently he's been at this for years with this latest attempt being version 3.0.

He pulled a permit, but it expired in the last few weeks. So he's been at it at least 200 or so days.

C'est la vie.

I sure appreciate Texags and everyone who responded.

I don't understand any of what you described but I only spent a minute reading the back and forth.


I had an engineer calculate lvl needed for a 22' span holding up our bathroom second story.

I believe it was 3x 18" LVL (or 16", I forgot).

We opted to use a W10x30 so it could all sit flush.

Yes, hire professionals.