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A better way to have your roof replaced! [Staff Warning]

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Jason_Roofer
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In reply to Ezra Brooks • 2:33p, 1/27/23
Ezra Brooks said:
What if you don't know how old your rood if....it was old when you bought the house?


This is where your insurance adjuster comes in. In some cases, the insurance carrier knows when the roof was replaced for any number of reasons. However, in a lot of instances, they don't. If that ends up being the case, then the adjuster will make an educated guess on age. It will then be depreciated an appropriate amount.

Depreciation is also based on the particular item. The roof may be 50%, but felt, vents, and every line item may depreciate differently. Either way, if I'm asked for the roof age the answer is always "I don't know" or "5-7 years" or "almost 10 maybe?"

I don't know anyone's policy and I'm not interested in potentially messing up a claim. The adjuster really needs to make the call.
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southernskies
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3:51p, 1/27/23
Also you could look on your sellers disclosure. It has a section there that asks for roof composition and age. May or may not be filled out but worth a look.
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Marvin_Zindler
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6:36a, 1/28/23
AG
Ok….the staff warning on this thread made me laugh. You know some mod was sitting around thinking……"seriously…..the home improvement board? And y'all are *****ing over shingles? And I've got to referee this?"

**this is not meant to be a critiscim of moderation….just found it funny**
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southernskies
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8:15a, 1/28/23
Make the Home Improvement board great again!
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cheeky
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In reply to JP76 • 9:18a, 1/28/23
AG
JP76 said:
maddiedou said:
Enviroag02 said:
Work has not kicked off yet, nor have materials been ordered. I just know what everything costs at this point.


I somewhat agree with you but

1. Seems like your basically having a bunch of gypsies replacing your roof
2. Could be no warranty after it is done if it is done right or weong
3. Roofers could actually file a lien on your house because they were not paid what they quoted your contractor
4. Who has the insurance on these guys when one of them falls off the roof
5. What happens if rain storm comes up as Inhave seen happen and half your roof is off

These are just a few questions I have and all those questions may have already been discussed and dont get me wrong I am all for saving money but just be careful




Or when they shoot the gas line touching the decking ?

Or when they shoot the freon line touching the decking?

Or when they shoot the electric wire touching the decking ?


why would any of this be touching the decking?
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cheeky
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9:19a, 1/28/23
AG
[You should have paid attention to the warning. Bans are longer in duration when a warning is ignored -Staff]
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fka ftc
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In reply to cheeky • 9:38a, 1/28/23

This is not true at all and goes directly against staff warning in the OP.

Mine went just fine from both the insurance carrier and the roofing contractor. Small things that needed addressing but none critical. Not a single nail found in the yard, but they could have done a better job and come into the attic and ensured any exhaust vents that may have been jumbled around were reattached.

Ignore the door knockers and ask you carrier / broker for contractors they have worked with or ask you friends in the business or this board for that matter.

Regarding nail penetrations hitting critical lines... well residential construction has many variations and subcontractors have been know to do bizarre things. Homeowners have been known to do even more bizarre things after construction is completed.

Blanket statements are not helpful to discussion IMO.
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htxag09
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In reply to fka ftc • 10:13a, 1/28/23
AG
And as someone who just replaced my roof on my dime I agree with the industry having plenty of unethical players comment.

Posted about it earlier, but I explained the situation to the roofers….the roof is 25 years old, has a leak, I just want to repair it. It needs it, it'll drop my premium, and we are probably selling soon and know the buyers would ask for a credit if we don't replace it.

Almost every roofer then explained I had some hail storm 18 months prior and I should have insurance cover it. They also said if insurance covered it then all of a sudden the scope was drastically different and more things needed to be replaced. They quoted me $20k+. If I was paying out of pocket they quoted $9-12k…..

So yeah, that doesn't exactly seem ethical to me. I understand insurance companies have more red tape, maybe longer until paid, etc. But not 2.5x for the cost of the project and all of a sudden needing top of the line materials. Not to mention the fact that we never actually had a hailstorm….

I get it, you're paying the insurance so why not get the benefit. But, at the end of the day, all this waste is coming from our increased premiums.
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cheeky
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10:20a, 1/28/23
AG
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fka ftc
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In reply to htxag09 • 10:23a, 1/28/23
Roofers use a variety of resources to target homes for door knocking following a storm. We had a hellacious hail storm with a track about a mile north of us. We may have had one marble size stone hit our roof.

Insurance companies use the same, oft inaccurate, reports to allow for a claim to be considered. But the damage still has to be there in order for adjuster to approve. If you are certain you have had no damage, tell them to buzz off and not file a claim.

I did not have any damage that I was aware of, but one of the guys flew a drone over the roof and in a valley hidden from view from below, I had a whole ton of missing shingles from some storm, who knows when. So I had him do a full eval and sent it to the insurance company to decide. They recommended a whole roof replacement.

Maxing out the materials and coverages is a decision you can make with your roofer, same as you do with your car insurance, primary care physician or dentist.

Yes there are less than ethical guys in roofing and contracting in general, just like in auto repair and in medicine. You can make the choice not to deal with them and to not deal unethically with your insurance company as OP suggested.
"The absence of the word accountability is not the same as wanting no accountability" -unknown

"You can never go wrong by staying silent if there is nothing apt to say" -Walter Isaacson
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Jason_Roofer
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In reply to cheeky • 10:51a, 1/28/23
Quote:
why would any of this be touching the decking?
That's the million dollar question!

Contractors sometimes do not consider the eventuality of a roof replacement, they are tired, they are lazy, they don't care, OR...that was the only thing they could do to make it work.

I rarely see it, but attempts should be made to ask homeowners. Many are already aware and will let me know so we can pinpoint that area, measure, and nail safely. If the area can't be avoided, I will bring a shorter nail for that area so it won't penetrate past the decking. Do what you gotta do.
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htxag09
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In reply to fka ftc • 10:52a, 1/28/23
AG
Absolutely. And I don't agree with the OP nor recommend it.

But, I do believe the OP is 100% correct in his assessment that the profit margin is substantially higher when roofers do an insurance claim, simply because they can. And, for most people it's not worth the hassle fighting it because it's not like they get any of that savings.
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MS08
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11:17a, 1/28/23
AG
OP, what have you decided?
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aggiepaintrain
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11:55a, 1/28/23
AG
Why does an insurance roofing job cost $30k and the same job for cash costs $20k?
Help me understand.

If what the OP suggested was "legal"
I'd do it too, but the roofing & insurance lobby is too powerful or we are all too dumb.

The answer is insurance companies make more in premiums over their book of business by charging higher premiums to those who don't make roofing claims than they lose by getting screwed by roofers.
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Jason_Roofer
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In reply to htxag09 • 12:15p, 1/28/23
htxag09 said:
And roofers tacking on double with higher end materials, more labor, higher margins, etc. aren't increasing our premiums?

I'd argue those two things are far more relevant in higher premiums.

Your roofer is definitely going to make a profit. Insurance estimates factor that in and provide for that. While that surely factors in to some degree.....

I think this is your culprit...

Quote:
Between $50 billion and 65 billion in insured damages were recorded after Ian made landfall in western Florida in late September with extreme winds, torrential rain and storm surge.

That's a crap ton of money, and someone has to pay for it. Our premiums are still going up from Covid increase, and ever natural disaster across the country. Now Ian will be factored in as well. We'll be paying for this in increases for a while.

That's the cost of having that warm fuzzy feeling that if out house burns to the ground, our carrier will replace it.
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htxag09
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In reply to Jason_Roofer • 12:19p, 1/28/23
AG
Speaking in generals. I'm not saying this is some new fad that's responsible for the increases the last year or so. I understand those are because of higher costs of materials, higher labor costs, and the recent storms.

I was replying to the poster saying high insurance premiums are because of instances like the OP.
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gratitudeandacceptance
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In reply to Jason_Roofer • 8:03a, 1/29/23
Hi Jason, I emailed you about a roofing matter unrelated to this thread today. User name and email name are not related btw.
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Carioca Corredor
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3:26p, 1/29/23
AG
TLDR Disclaimer: I hate roofs. But its the most important "system" of our houses. That's why so much corruption is possible, IMHO. My experiences...Replaced roof on primary home turned rental in Cypress, TX 2016 approx $14k. Good quality roof but bill equaled exact amount of insurance payout. 2018 New roof in North Carolina $16k. contractor used the hail scenario and insurance payed out $8k, I paid the rest. Poor work and contractor wouldn't return to do repairs. 2019 purchased a 1990 home in Florida with a concrete flat tile roof. Home insurance was in the $5k range. Since, at least three hurricanes and insurance co defunct. 2023 insurance premium over $12k and going up in July. Also, current insurance company wants roof replaced because of age (original). Quote for roof replacement is over $80k. That's $80k out of pocket. Shingle roof is only $15k less. House is small at 3 BR/ 3 Bth. No one can really pay these prices so roofers need to roof and homeowners need sound roofs and/or non leaky ones.
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fka ftc
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In reply to cheeky • 8:20p, 1/29/23
[Since neither of you can not stop insulting each other you are both done on this thread. -Staff]
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Mathguy64
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In reply to Enviroag02 • 10:29p, 1/29/23
AG
Enviroag02 said:
You are wrong about the shingle costs. That is JUST for the shingles per my estimate paperwork. Ok so the amount I pay him which corresponds to my deductible is his project management fee. My contractor is doing something. He ordered the materials, I'm paying his roofing crew, and he's submitting the completion report.

So I missed this part before. OP, you say you are paying his crew. Are you literally paying them? Or is he charging you the labor fee? Because this sounds like you are actually paying them. They are now your paid labor not his. If so, what happens if one of them happens to slip off the roof or accidentally shoots a nail in their foot? And who exactly is doing the payroll? Is this cash under the table?

Sounds to me like a roofing guy is getting you to not just pay his guys but he's offloaded all his business expenses like insurance/workmans comp and payroll taxes. Not to mention since you are paying the labor you are self insuring yourself for any warranty work.

Oof.
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cheeky
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In reply to fka ftc • 11:09p, 1/29/23
AG
[Since neither of you can not stop insulting each other you are both done on this thread. -Staff]
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Sea Speed
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9:26p, 2/2/23
AG
How much do you folks think a 2700 sq ft 1 story house should cost to get a new roof? Cash price. Roof is pretty basic.
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aezmvp
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In reply to Jason_Roofer • 1:00p, 2/3/23
Jason_InfinityRoofer said:
I understand your frustration with roofers. There is a catch here and I am trying to understand where it is. I feel like it is in the certificate of completion.

EDIT: I am editing this so as not to incriminate anyone.

I know of no carriers that will release depreciation based on a certificate of completion unless there is an itemized or at least an invoice with a dollar figure attached to it. Therefore, this is where the fraud comes in. The contractor may have submitted an invoice with a full dollar figure on it for things he did not incur. In fact, it cost him a fraction of that because he was out no money at all. you paid for it. That is where fraud is in the eyes of the carrier/TDI.
I work on the distribution side of the industry. I have no dog in this hunt. But it sure sounds like it would be fraud under the way Texas has structured the rules. They structured this not because of how/why you are doing this. They structured it to protect the general public from being taken advantage of. Doesn't always work out that way.
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fka ftc
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In reply to aezmvp • 1:02p, 2/3/23
Well said.
"The absence of the word accountability is not the same as wanting no accountability" -unknown

"You can never go wrong by staying silent if there is nothing apt to say" -Walter Isaacson
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Whoop Delecto
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In reply to Sea Speed • 6:17p, 2/3/23
AG
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bam02
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In reply to Whoop Delecto • 6:21p, 2/3/23
AG
Whoop Delecto said:
Maybe one of the experts will respond. I would budget about $15,000.


I was gonna say $20k
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GrimesCoAg95
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6:59p, 2/3/23
AG
I think Jason and jws have done a good job explaining how insurance claims work for roofs.

Just one more point. You have insurance to replace your roof once you cover the deductible. This will come in 2 checks. The first one is the actual value of your roof based on life. The second is the remainder of the amount you paid up to the estimate. The good thing is that the estimates are usually sufficient.

If you have worked out a scheme where you don't cover the deductible or end up with cash, someone had to submit a completion / invoice that was not accurate. I remember years ago, there was a hail storm in my area. My neighbor came bragging to me how they got a free roof. I commented, "Well, almost free." because I had a smaller deductible at the time. He said, "no free, you just need the roofer to create two invoices." I shook my head and turned to walk away. He said, "What's wrong?" I simply replied that you can do that, but it has a name called fraud.

OP, if I am missing something I apologize. The only way I could see this working is if your roof was very new and the first check was enough to cover the repairs, but I am not even sure on this.
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Sea Speed
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In reply to bam02 • 8:56p, 2/3/23
AG
bam02 said:
Whoop Delecto said:
Maybe one of the experts will respond. I would budget about $15,000.


I was gonna say $20k


Neighbpr got a 2200 sq ft house done with a significantly more complicated roof done for 13k last week.
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jws456
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In reply to Sea Speed • 9:28p, 2/3/23
AG
It is difficult to say based on square footage of home/slab alone. Roof surface square footage can vary so much. You could be anywhere from $10k-$40k for a traditional roof system. You could PM your address, I can pull satellite measurements and give you a more accurate figure on what to expect.
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Sea Speed
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In reply to jws456 • 9:35p, 2/3/23
AG
You don't seem to have stars so email me at username2121 at Gmail and ill give it to you.
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Jason_Roofer
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In reply to Sea Speed • 10:06p, 2/3/23
Sea Speed said:
bam02 said:
Whoop Delecto said:
Maybe one of the experts will respond. I would budget about $15,000.


I was gonna say $20k


Neighbpr got a 2200 sq ft house done with a significantly more complicated roof done for 13k last week.


I'd estimate between 15,500-17,500. Single story, 35 +/- sq roof area, not steep, architectural shingle (GAF, CT, OC) with synthetic underlayment, ice and water in valley, if you have any, 5 year warranty….could be more, or could be less depending on who you select to do it and their overhead. This must be measured or measurements pulled from satellite. I typically cad my own if I can from satellite just because I am particular like that. There is no way to know a roof size based on home square footage without actually measuring.

Jws can get you hooked up, but my email is in my profile if you need extra estimates. I have a partner company I can refer you to as well for yet another estimate if you are in Houston.
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Jason_Roofer
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In reply to aezmvp • 10:23p, 2/3/23
As one poster stated earlier, the claims process is confusing and painful for a lot of homeowners. Most don't look at it every day. However, as you said, all of this is a direct result of a carrier's requirement to protect themselves, and by proxy, the homeowner.

There was a time when a carrier might throw a giant replacement check to a homeowner, and any overage was just that...leftover for the homeowner. The problem is that a lot of folks took that to extreme and got crappy roofs put on so they could maximize their cash in the pocket. That resulted in roof failures and leaks, and then a new claim. Now, they split the checks in an effort to make sure it actually gets done.

Scams are still a big problem and I see the evolution of this being much like your auto insurance with a 'preferred' service center. I would not be surprised if companies partnered with insurance providers and cut checks directly to the roofer. It would further allow the carrier to maintain strict quality control over the scope of work. In exchange for using their roofer, you would likely end up with a few perks like longer warranties.

You make a claim.
Insurance cuts you a deal on deductibles (which they can, they are the provider)
You use the roofer they say to use and get some extra perks
Insurance pays the roofer
Your claim is closed and it's a done deal.

I know a LOT of homeowners that would jump on that. It's streamlined and easy and ultimately puts any issues on the lap of the carrier. I don't know. We'll see.
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bam02
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In reply to Sea Speed • 7:27a, 2/4/23
AG
Yeah $20k is probably high. Mine was replaced in 2020 and I think it was around 2250sf. I think it was around $12K.

I was assuming prices were up a lot.
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